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Cage better than ring?

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Baz

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I prefer the Ring over a cage, I know it sounds daft but I feel it gives it more of a sporting contest feel.

Post #16   2/7/07 6:04:13AM   

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I really think the answer is the open mat. I wish I could find the link, it should be somewhere on sherdog, I saw video of Sergei against someone I never heard of but with some kind of slavic name and it was not only a great fight but it demonstrated the way the fighters tend to respect the "unwritten" boundry. It's the setup they've always used for grappling events. In this case there was like a 2 ft high curb around them with the audience anoter20 ft back (?), And the entire area looked bigger than the octagon. They had plenty of room to work and no ring cage for any unnatural advantage.

I think I was watching old videos of Igor Vovchanchyn fights where he was in a similar setup... I thought they were old sambo championships, but that was just a wild guess.

It did provide the most open area for fighters, but there is a certain sense of neccesity to keep the fighters enclosed in some sort or another (ring or cage)... Adds to the decisiveness of one on one combat, IMO.

Post #17   2/7/07 6:57:36PM   

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Posted by pv3Hpv3p

I really think the answer is the open mat. I wish I could find the link, it should be somewhere on sherdog, I saw video of Sergei against someone I never heard of but with some kind of slavic name and it was not only a great fight but it demonstrated the way the fighters tend to respect the "unwritten" boundry. It's the setup they've always used for grappling events. In this case there was like a 2 ft high curb around them with the audience anoter20 ft back (?), And the entire area looked bigger than the octagon. They had plenty of room to work and no ring cage for any unnatural advantage.

I think I was watching old videos of Igor Vovchanchyn fights where he was in a similar setup... I thought they were old sambo championships, but that was just a wild guess.

It did provide the most open area for fighters, but there is a certain sense of neccesity to keep the fighters enclosed in some sort or another (ring or cage)... Adds to the decisiveness of one on one combat, IMO.



I see your point, but I think that the necessity is a common misconception. Fighters do tend to respect a given area, which I think ppl think they'll just run (if someone wants to run they can still do it). I think it takes away some of the decisiveness to say it wasn't just the combatants it was: being trapped against a cage, or in ropes, or they "shoul've/shouldn't have" stood them or all the other arguments after fights. The two guys just decide it on their own. Course I do realize the general conception is they "need" to be locked up.

And yeah I know grappling,sambo etc use it.. The video I'm talkin about is the only time I saw mma in that format, wish I knew where to find it.

Post #18   2/7/07 7:38:31PM   

OchoCinco

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I just hate the restarts in Pride because they are falling out of the ring. Let them fight use a cage.

Post #19   2/7/07 7:43:29PM   

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Posted by JimiMak


Posted by pv3Hpv3p

I really think the answer is the open mat. I wish I could find the link, it should be somewhere on sherdog, I saw video of Sergei against someone I never heard of but with some kind of slavic name and it was not only a great fight but it demonstrated the way the fighters tend to respect the "unwritten" boundry. It's the setup they've always used for grappling events. In this case there was like a 2 ft high curb around them with the audience anoter20 ft back (?), And the entire area looked bigger than the octagon. They had plenty of room to work and no ring cage for any unnatural advantage.

I think I was watching old videos of Igor Vovchanchyn fights where he was in a similar setup... I thought they were old sambo championships, but that was just a wild guess.

It did provide the most open area for fighters, but there is a certain sense of neccesity to keep the fighters enclosed in some sort or another (ring or cage)... Adds to the decisiveness of one on one combat, IMO.



I see your point, but I think that the necessity is a common misconception. Fighters do tend to respect a given area, which I think ppl think they'll just run (if someone wants to run they can still do it). I think it takes away some of the decisiveness to say it wasn't just the combatants it was: being trapped against a cage, or in ropes, or they "shoul've/shouldn't have" stood them or all the other arguments after fights. The two guys just decide it on their own. Course I do realize the general conception is they "need" to be locked up.

And yeah I know grappling,sambo etc use it.. The video I'm talkin about is the only time I saw mma in that format, wish I knew where to find it.



I was wrong... Just searched around for it... The fights I was watching were definitly not sambo, they had boxing-style gloves on... Not sure what it was...

I understand what you're saying, there shouldn't be elements outside the fighters mentality and their skillsets coming into play, but IMO fighters adjust said skillsets to their environment. Be it a wrestler smashing someone against a cage or a striker trapping someone in the corner of the ring, the environment is really just another asset (or hindrence) in the fighters arsenal...

Very good point though... It does seem to take the game to it's purist form, but IMO the cage/ring adds a feeling of structure to the fight game, and that is something that ultimately lends to the sports credibility...

Post #20   2/7/07 8:12:03PM   

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Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by JimiMak


Posted by pv3Hpv3p



Very good point though... It does seem to take the game to it's purist form, but IMO the cage/ring adds a feeling of structure to the fight game, and that is something that ultimately lends to the sports credibility...



Point taken, and I can't argue with the idea that structure leads to public credibility. I kinda hope we have to argue which is better forever. There should always be dif orgs, rules, setups etc

Post #21   2/7/07 8:21:55PM   

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Posted by JimiMak


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by JimiMak


Posted by pv3Hpv3p



Very good point though... It does seem to take the game to it's purist form, but IMO the cage/ring adds a feeling of structure to the fight game, and that is something that ultimately lends to the sports credibility...



Point taken, and I can't argue with the idea that structure leads to public credibility. I kinda hope we have to argue which is better forever. There should always be dif orgs, rules, setups etc



Agreed, I don't think a monopoly of MMA by any one org could end up being a good thing... Of course, everyone has a couple of dream cross-promotional fights, but maybe after MMA's growing pains subside, and the sport is seen as 'mainstream' we'll see more of these orgs working together as apose to against eachother...

Funny, a couple of years ago I would have thought this would all be wishful thinking...

Post #22   2/8/07 12:14:59PM   

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hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyythjyuju7yhhhbgnm,uyhgbgytghbhygtrfrhy. sorry, i just spilled chili on my keyboard. i agree with the growing pains point of view but i think it will always be dana thats against it. how would he handle a losing record agaist pride or if they had a champion / champion fight and ufc lost. dana doesn't like losing face

Post #23   2/8/07 1:45:40PM   

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Posted by JunCTion

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyythjyuju7yhhhbgnm,uyhgbgytghbhygtrfrhy. sorry, i just spilled chili on my keyboard. i agree with the growing pains point of view but i think it will always be dana thats against it. how would he handle a losing record agaist pride or if they had a champion / champion fight and ufc lost. dana doesn't like losing face



I guess what I meant was, that after the smoke has cleared and the playing fields are more level then there really is no face to be lost. Both org will have an excellent stabel of fighters, and if things are going the way they are now, why not give the fans what they want...

With that being said, he would probably do the same thing he did when Rampage beat Chuck.

I do see your point though, hopefully after the competition between rival orgs settles down a little, we will only have to worry about bruises on fighters as appose to some suits ego.

Post #24   2/8/07 2:02:06PM   

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i agree, as long as dana white doesn't become vince mcmahon.
to keep the orgs happy, couldnt they agree to pay equal base fight salaries to both fighters and split the winners purse

Post #25   2/8/07 2:20:00PM   

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The cage was made for MMA.

The ring was made for boxing.


When you introduce aspects like grappling a ring simply isn't efficient. Fighters need a totally enclosed environment.

The main arguement against the cage is that it's beneficial to wrestlers. Try telling that to Chuck Liddell. With proper training the cage can be utilized for getting back to your feet. When Rampage put Chuck on his back in Pride Chuck didn't have anything to help him get back up.

Post #26   2/8/07 5:58:31PM   

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Posted by OB_Juan

The cage was made for MMA.

The ring was made for boxing.


When you introduce aspects like grappling a ring simply isn't efficient. Fighters need a totally enclosed environment.

The main arguement against the cage is that it's beneficial to wrestlers. Try telling that to Chuck Liddell. With proper training the cage can be utilized for getting back to your feet. When Rampage put Chuck on his back in Pride Chuck didn't have anything to help him get back up.




what would of chuck done if he got back up? get beat down again...Rampage was dominating chuck anywhere the fight took place

Post #27   2/8/07 9:32:51PM   

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Posted by OB_Juan

The cage was made for MMA.

The ring was made for boxing.


When you introduce aspects like grappling a ring simply isn't efficient. Fighters need a totally enclosed environment.

The main arguement against the cage is that it's beneficial to wrestlers. Try telling that to Chuck Liddell. With proper training the cage can be utilized for getting back to your feet. When Rampage put Chuck on his back in Pride Chuck didn't have anything to help him get back up.



This is actually one of the biggest arguments against the cage. Incase you didn't realize it... that is technically cheating. Granted it's the kind of minor infraction that if you don't prolongedly grab it usually doesn't get called. I think it would be good if you grabbed the fence to get up, if they made you get back down (this is only 1/2 serious, but I don't see how saying you can use it to get up is a good thing).

Post #28   2/9/07 5:42:10PM   
 
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