Shogun's first appearance |
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Having re-watched the Rua/Griffin fight I must say that Shogun definitely showed that he has what it takes to compete in the division. Before anyone flames just listen for a second. Shogun had a knee injury, so he wasn't able to properly work his cardio for the fight. It also means that during this fight he wasn't able to use a lot of BJJ skills and lastly it means he was not able to kick as effectively.
After that fight I was jumping up and down because i felt vindicated but I don't know if I was in fact vindicated. I believe that Shogun is a top fighter after watching how well he did given the fact that he was basically in no shape to fight.
I hate saying this crap because it takes away from Griffin's win, but you have to really look at this fight fairly. None of Rua's tools were available to him yet he was still able to land several great shots and delivered one hell of an elbow.
To all you Shogun lovers; you have nothing to worry about. Once he gets that knee fixed he will be a monster once again. Let's just hope next time he won't try to be super man when he's injured.
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War Tito.
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Post #1 10/2/07 11:32:53AM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
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Posted by nubby
I hate saying this crap because it takes away from Griffin's win, but you have to really look at this fight fairly. None of Rua's tools were available to him yet he was still able to land several great shots and delivered one hell of an elbow.
I don't think you are taking anything away from Forrest. You never once said that Shogun would've won the fight had he been 100%.
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
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Post #2 10/2/07 11:41:25AM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 221-124
Season: 45-23 (#281)
Location: In the cheap seats.
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Posted by nubby
Having re-watched the Rua/Griffin fight I must say that Shogun definitely showed that he has what it takes to compete in the division. Before anyone flames just listen for a second. Shogun had a knee injury, so he wasn't able to properly work his cardio for the fight. It also means that during this fight he wasn't able to use a lot of BJJ skills and lastly it means he was not able to kick as effectively.
After that fight I was jumping up and down because i felt vindicated but I don't know if I was in fact vindicated. I believe that Shogun is a top fighter after watching how well he did given the fact that he was basically in no shape to fight.
I hate saying this crap because it takes away from Griffin's win, but you have to really look at this fight fairly. None of Rua's tools were available to him yet he was still able to land several great shots and delivered one hell of an elbow.
To all you Shogun lovers; you have nothing to worry about. Once he gets that knee fixed he will be a monster once again. Let's just hope next time he won't try to be super man when he's injured.
I agree completely. I didn't know about the knee until after the fight, but it was obvious to me that Shogun wasn't "right." At the time, I assumed he had taken Griffin - and possibly the UFC more generally - too lightly and hadn't trained properly. Either way, I expect him to perform better next time.
Does that make me a "Shogun lover"? 
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Who dares, wins.
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Post #3 10/2/07 11:55:08AM
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hathcock32
In Full Mount
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Career record: 220-116
Season: 50-20 (#147)
Location: San Diego
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Injuries shoudent take anything away from the winning guy/team. Injuries are a part of sports, people compete with them all the time, it doesen't take anything away from the winner.
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Post #4 10/2/07 12:02:48PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by AchillesHeel
I agree completely. I didn't know about the knee until after the fight, but it was obvious to me that Shogun wasn't "right." At the time, I assumed he had taken Griffin - and possibly the UFC more generally - too lightly and hadn't trained properly. Either way, I expect him to perform better next time.
Does that make me a "Shogun lover"?
Only if you want to be.
I'm sure I'll be one too if he fights with as much heart next time as well. Even Forrest was shocked by his relentless attacks. It's not like Forrest was throwing pillows at him.
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War Tito.
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Post #5 10/2/07 12:08:06PM
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JBatch
In Full Mount
Career record: 206-114
Season: 41-29 (#2608)
Location: Windsor
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I agree that Shogun did not look right. He usually dominates people by going full throttle longer than the other fighter can handle and he gassed so early reminded me of Overeem.
One thing that pisses me off though is it seems anytime Griffin is in a big fight his opponent is injured. Tito and Shogun. Why would the UFC allow these fighters in the ring with such severe injuries that hinder thier performance to the point they can use it as an excuse.
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Post #6 10/2/07 12:27:10PM
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Mastodon2
MMA Sensei
Career record: 183-108
Season: 32-23 (#4471)
Location: Newcastle England
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As soon as the bell went and Shogun slowly walked out of his corner I knew something up. It wasn't the Shogun who raised his guard, looked right at his target then stalked up to it, ready to destroy. He just looked tired and ill.
Everyone is fighting ill at the moment, just the other night an ill Ray Sefo took a beating from Peter Aerts and was nearly sick in his corner!
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Post #7 10/2/07 12:36:32PM
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Wins Fairly Squarely
Career record: 207-122
Season: 46-24 (#266)
Location: Cornwall, UK
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Shogun never had a good gastank though and ive seen him huff and puff like that before, he finished nearly all his fights in the 1st round tho, the stats speak for themselves as well -
WINS 13 (T)KOs (81.25%)1 Submissions (6.25%)
2 Decisions (12.50%) and of his 2 real losses they are both late 3rd rd subs after he was way too gassed to defend, but he was gassed badly in his 2 decisions wins as well, factor in his long lay off and the knee injury and its safe to see we will see a much better shogun next time but id always expect to see him gassed in a 3rd rd tbh
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MY LHW DIVISION PREDICTION = Rashad beats Forrest. Rampage beats Rashad. Machida beats Rampage. Then Randy beats Machida at next years Xmas UFC!
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Post #8 10/2/07 12:36:55PM
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loonytnt
MMA Sensei
Career record: 126-99
Season: 33-24 (#4027)
Location: idaho
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Shogun lost thats all there is to it, Shogun is a great fighter but he needs to show it, sure he was hurt but i still can see forrest winning by sub.,Forrest did a great job and trained hard thats why he won not because shogun wasnt 100%
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Post #9 10/2/07 2:00:12PM
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TNunley
Belt Contender
Career record: 72-55
Season: 3-8 (#8613)
Location: Southwest MO
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It amazes me that the only time CC and Shogun lose are because of something other than the other fighter... I honestly don't understand how people could hate on Tito so much for making excuses, but when it comes to CC or Shogun... they become legitimate. No offense to anyone, but this is really getting tired.
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Post #10 10/2/07 2:07:06PM
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raindrops21
MMA Regular
Career record: 168-75
Season: 29-11 (#3752)
Location: St. Louis
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I seriously hate to say this, but I'm going to throw it out there for debate.
Does anyone think that maybe steroids has anything to do with this?
Now, I'm not pointing fingers, but we all know that PRIDE had no drug testing.
I love Shogun, and I expected him to win a decision against Forrest, but he looked lackedaisical, non-aggressive, and not the Shogun we're used to seeing.
What do you guys think? Is it a possibility?
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Post #11 10/2/07 2:12:33PM
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TNunley
Belt Contender
Career record: 72-55
Season: 3-8 (#8613)
Location: Southwest MO
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Posted by raindrops21
I seriously hate to say this, but I'm going to throw it out there for debate.
Does anyone think that maybe steroids has anything to do with this?
Now, I'm not pointing fingers, but we all know that PRIDE had no drug testing.
I love Shogun, and I expected him to win a decision against Forrest, but he looked lackedaisical, non-aggressive, and not the Shogun we're used to seeing.
What do you guys think? Is it a possibility?
We've had this conversation many times....
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Post #12 10/2/07 2:16:34PM
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BigEvil
Standup Guy
Career record: 159-91
Season: 41-29 (#2512)
Location:
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Shogun will defenitly bounce back, he could take a whole year off and he'd still only be 25.
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Post #13 10/2/07 2:25:04PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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My hope is that Forrest is still good enough to win against Shogun @ 100%. But I can recognize that Shogun didn't have all his tools going into that fight. I'm certainly not making excuses for him, I'm merely making observations about the fight and how well he did for having been hurt.
I'm more excited to see his next fight because I think he will do quite well. I think he adjusted to using elbows more than I anticipated.
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War Tito.
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Post #14 10/2/07 2:59:10PM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 221-124
Season: 45-23 (#281)
Location: In the cheap seats.
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Posted by nubby
My hope is that Forrest is still good enough to win against Shogun @ 100%. But I can recognize that Shogun didn't have all his tools going into that fight. I'm certainly not making excuses for him, I'm merely making observations about the fight and how well he did for having been hurt.
I'm more excited to see his next fight because I think he will do quite well. I think he adjusted to using elbows more than I anticipated.
In a way, whether Forrest could defeat Shogun at full power is moot. By the time they rematch, if they ever do, Forrest will probably be better than he is today, just as Shogun will be.
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Who dares, wins.
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Post #15 10/2/07 3:13:30PM
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