Rashad Tito winner?? |
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by MMAFever
Posted by TNunley
Posted by MMAFever
I didn't say Tito was known for finishing his fights... quite the opposite.
The points you make are valid if this were the year 2004 or later but, last I checked, it is 2007.
If you enjoy watching Tito fight to have his fights decided by judge's decision then all the power to you and I hope you enjoy that.
MMA Fever isn't all about the highlights, it's about understanding the fighter's style, strengths, weaknesses, injuries and fight camp (training partners) which is why I stand by what I said in that, Mr. Jacob "Tito" Ortiz is spent and cannot finish a fight.
IMO Ortiz is a mediocre wrestler with below average striking ability who relies on only one style (G'n'P with Elbows) that was successfully countered by Rashad Evans
You can't put forth and agrument to refute this historical fact about Ortiz which is why, "nuff said" is a sufficient argument to counter, "Additionally, given a few more seconds I'm quite sure he would have finished off Rashad in the second round, That guillotine was in deep."
I could say that given a right high kick by Rashad in round two and Tito would have been KTFO. See how preposterous that line of thinking is? 'nuff said.
Haven't done it in a while, but I'm gonna have to defend Tito for a second.
Obviously Tito has some potential as a belt contender. I think Dana himself even said this. I mean really, Tito's last 3 losses were to Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture. The last loss before that was against Frank Shamrock way back in '99.
I think Tito is far better than mediocre at wrestling, unless you're meaning he's mediocre at wrestling but great at JJ. Plus it's hard to say Rashad "countered" anything. The only reason Rashad didn't walk away with a loss is because of Tito grabbing some fence(which is a whole different conversation).
True, Tito should have won by decision except that he had a point taken away from him for grabbing the fence multiple times to prevent Rashad's takedown.
By Rashad quickly climbing to his feet after a takedown thus eliminating the G'n'P of Ortiz is considered a defensive counter.
I have seen nothing but Tito bashing from Dana White so if you have a link or anything that you could share that would validate the claim that Dana White thinks Tito is a contender, I would appreciate it.
MMA Math is flawed and I wouldn't say Tito is great at BJJ at all. Yes, Tito has fought the top contenders and lost to them so I don't know how one can argue that he is a contender now because Chuck lost by split decision.
Can Tito finish a fight in 2007 and beyond without resorting to the flawed 10-point must system to decide the outcome of the fight?
People can say that Tito's a contender because the two people who beat him in recent memory are now out of his way, gee I guess that must be flawed logic as well.
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War Tito.
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Post #31 9/26/07 5:23:59PM
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Conartist
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 68-50
Season: 13-11 (#6628)
Location:
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Sometimes I don't care who wins and I just want Tito to shut up. Then again I admire his smack talk strategy. It works most of the time. However,with this fight, it's Rashad's time to make it big in the LHW division. The way I see it, he can feed off the inspiration from Keith Jardine and Forest Griffin and I think the upsets are going to continue. That is if he continues to train with Juanito with team Jackson in Big Bear.
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Post #32 9/26/07 7:41:59PM
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Ulio
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 113-69
Season: 36-24 (#3123)
Location: Quebec , Canada
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Posted by jocka
Posted by guero13
some may not agree but how abot Ortiz vs Henderson . if tito would lose that one he would lose to a champ. if he wins its like he beat wand twice ( kinda) and there would be less doubt about him getting in the cage with rampage
Tito vs Rashad 2 - Rashad will win it this time and maybee now he could retire, I am the only one that is tired of Tito Ortiz. Rashad then should fight Hendo
The tito ortiz that was hungry vs shamrock if it is him then great he can have a chance in the title scene.
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Post #33 9/26/07 7:56:11PM
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jeremygreen
MMA Regular
Career record: 134-98
Season: 29-31 (#3939)
Location: Lubbock, Tx
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Tito will never be champion again, he's done, how could he beat rampage, he would probably get beat by rashad when they fight again, forrest griffin will beat him if they ever get a rematch, Wanderlei could beat him, Henderson could beat him, no way Tito could get the belt back.
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Post #34 9/26/07 8:06:50PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by jeremygreen
Tito will never be champion again, he's done, how could he beat rampage, he would probably get beat by rashad when they fight again, forrest griffin will beat him if they ever get a rematch, Wanderlei could beat him, Henderson could beat him, no way Tito could get the belt back.
I wouldn't be so sure. There is a big IF that could determine his future for the next 4 years. IF he can get healthy you can expect to see him the way he was against Forrest in the first round of their Fight. You can expect the Tito that you saw in both Shamrock fights. He's there, but he's hidden underneath ACL tears, Back Injuries, and other training injuries. Couture was quoted as saying that Tito over-trains. If he could find his groove, I think he might have a chance at Jackson. I don't think Forrest would really end up that much differently and Rashad is just Tito light IMO.
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War Tito.
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Post #35 9/26/07 8:17:12PM
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jeremygreen
MMA Regular
Career record: 134-98
Season: 29-31 (#3939)
Location: Lubbock, Tx
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Posted by nubby
Posted by jeremygreen
Tito will never be champion again, he's done, how could he beat rampage, he would probably get beat by rashad when they fight again, forrest griffin will beat him if they ever get a rematch, Wanderlei could beat him, Henderson could beat him, no way Tito could get the belt back.
I wouldn't be so sure. There is a big IF that could determine his future for the next 4 years. IF he can get healthy you can expect to see him the way he was against Forrest in the first round of their Fight. You can expect the Tito that you saw in both Shamrock fights. He's there, but he's hidden underneath ACL tears, Back Injuries, and other training injuries. Couture was quoted as saying that Tito over-trains. If he could find his groove, I think he might have a chance at Jackson. I don't think Forrest would really end up that much differently and Rashad is just Tito light IMO.
Even if he did get past Rashad and Griffin, he still would loose to Rampage and Hendo, He will espcially loose to Chuck , so hes done, Cant get past Chuck = done
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Post #36 9/26/07 8:22:31PM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by jeremygreen
Posted by nubby
Posted by jeremygreen
Tito will never be champion again, he's done, how could he beat rampage, he would probably get beat by rashad when they fight again, forrest griffin will beat him if they ever get a rematch, Wanderlei could beat him, Henderson could beat him, no way Tito could get the belt back.
I wouldn't be so sure. There is a big IF that could determine his future for the next 4 years. IF he can get healthy you can expect to see him the way he was against Forrest in the first round of their Fight. You can expect the Tito that you saw in both Shamrock fights. He's there, but he's hidden underneath ACL tears, Back Injuries, and other training injuries. Couture was quoted as saying that Tito over-trains. If he could find his groove, I think he might have a chance at Jackson. I don't think Forrest would really end up that much differently and Rashad is just Tito light IMO.
Even if he did get past Rashad and Griffin, he still would loose to Rampage and Hendo, He will espcially loose to Chuck , so hes done, Cant get past Chuck = done
Explain why he even has to fight chuck again?
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War Tito.
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Post #37 9/26/07 8:30:57PM
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jeremygreen
MMA Regular
Career record: 134-98
Season: 29-31 (#3939)
Location: Lubbock, Tx
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Posted by nubby
Posted by jeremygreen
Posted by nubby
Posted by jeremygreen
Tito will never be champion again, he's done, how could he beat rampage, he would probably get beat by rashad when they fight again, forrest griffin will beat him if they ever get a rematch, Wanderlei could beat him, Henderson could beat him, no way Tito could get the belt back.
I wouldn't be so sure. There is a big IF that could determine his future for the next 4 years. IF he can get healthy you can expect to see him the way he was against Forrest in the first round of their Fight. You can expect the Tito that you saw in both Shamrock fights. He's there, but he's hidden underneath ACL tears, Back Injuries, and other training injuries. Couture was quoted as saying that Tito over-trains. If he could find his groove, I think he might have a chance at Jackson. I don't think Forrest would really end up that much differently and Rashad is just Tito light IMO.
Even if he did get past Rashad and Griffin, he still would loose to Rampage and Hendo, He will espcially loose to Chuck , so hes done, Cant get past Chuck = done
Explain why he even has to fight chuck again?
Because Lidell got knocked off the ladder, Tito can't just challenge for the title, that wouldn't make since, so in order to climb the ladder he has to go through Liddell, Seeing that Chuck always has tito's number, I doubt he will ever be champion, in fact im going out on a limb and saying he will never be champion in the ufc again.
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Post #38 9/26/07 9:27:08PM
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hathcock32
In Full Mount
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Career record: 220-116
Season: 50-20 (#147)
Location: San Diego
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IMO a healty Tito can beat anyone. Especially in a 5 round fight....IF he can get to that title shot. He should take on the dirty boxing aspect like Couture and i think it would make him a lot better. If he is healtly(no major injuries) he will stop Rashad in the 2nd GnP.
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Post #39 9/26/07 9:29:53PM
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hathcock32
In Full Mount
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Career record: 220-116
Season: 50-20 (#147)
Location: San Diego
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Chuck is lower on the todem pole than Tito at the moment. Tito wins agianst Rashad he gets a big name opponet he wins that he gets a title shot. Coming off 2 straight losses Chuck is a ways away from the title.
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Post #40 9/26/07 9:32:04PM
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NatedawgThaM
MMA Sensei
Career record: 150-91
Season: 44-24 (#1353)
Location: New Providence, Pa
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After Tito UD's Rashad he should get Shogun or Wandy because I would love to see him get tested by a fighter with Great Muay Thia and great BJJ...
He could hold his own stand up until they lock the M-Thai clinch and then he's screwed...
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Post #41 9/27/07 12:40:06AM
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loonytnt
MMA Sensei
Career record: 126-99
Season: 33-24 (#4027)
Location: idaho
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i see a lot of tito haters lol tito is a great fighter and i will make a bold move and say he will be the champ again
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Post #42 9/27/07 12:49:43AM
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MaxUFC
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 179-142
Season: 41-26 (#1754)
Location: Northeast Coast
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If Evans are going do like 3rd Round...no butterfly stomach. Evans will win. I pick Evans via R3 TKO.
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Post #43 9/27/07 5:01:03AM
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jeremygreen
MMA Regular
Career record: 134-98
Season: 29-31 (#3939)
Location: Lubbock, Tx
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It doesn't matter, Rashad will beat him this time, ko baby!
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Post #44 9/27/07 10:31:17AM
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Banned
Career record: 168-85
Season: 35-19 (#3064)
Location: Bay Area
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Posted by NatedawgThaM
After Tito UD's Rashad he should get Shogun or Wandy because I would love to see him get tested by a fighter with Great Muay Thia and great BJJ...
He could hold his own stand up until they lock the M-Thai clinch and then he's screwed...
Tito's clinch is very strong, it's the reason Couture didn't want to stay there when they fought. I also think that Tito would muscle Shogun the way that Forrest did, except on the ground Tito would be far more dangerous. The same might not apply to Silva, but the way to defeat Silva would be almost identical to the first time they went at it. There are only really two types of fighters that give Tito problems, great strikers with a sprawl and wrestlers, Shogun and Silva are neither.
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War Tito.
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Post #45 9/27/07 11:08:44AM
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