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Why Wand is going to do very well in the UFC...

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Kastro

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I was just reading through a bunch of posts relating to Pride fighters not doing so well in the UFC and etc... I stumbled across a claim that Wanderlei Silva is calling out Forrest Griffin for December and it made me start analyzing the two fighters..

Griffin beat Shogun in convincing fashion, just like Gonzaga and Cheick Kongo did to Mirko Cro Cop. All of a sudden everyone is becoming aware that the octagon is much different than the Pride ring, and I think both Shogun and Cro Cop underestimated that (though I think Shogun underestimated Griffin and didn't take his fight seriously).

Wanderlei on the other hand rejected the fight with Chuck Liddell as he was in the midst of moving and settling into America, some people frowned upon it and thought Wanderlei backed down but Wanderlei did the right thing by making sure he is ready for a stellar opponent like Chuck Liddell.. Wanderlei now gets to sit back until December and watch everything that happens in the UFC, he can be prepared by watching Cro Cop and Shogun and learning from their mistakes, Wanderlei is also coming off of 2 KO losses and according to his interview he is really pumped and taking the UFC very seriously..

I have a good feeling about Wanderlei in the UFC.. Sure he cant use his stomps or kicks, but he never really needed those they were more like finishing moves in Pride.. Wandy has very hard hands, great BJJ, and is a very complete, solid 205lbs fighter.. He is going to be very prepared for the UFC, you wait and see!

Post #1   9/25/07 5:31:44PM   

DJDark41

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Well...all the other fighters from PRIDE have said that they were ready for the UFC and to fight in the cage, and they say they've learned from past PRIDE fighters who made the mistake of not being prepared, but they lose anyway and blah blah blah and all that. I'm almost thinking Chuck Liddell will win just based on the fact that PRIDE fighters just for some reason can't win(aside from Rampage)inside the Octagon. Still will be an interesting fight though.

Last edited 9/25/07 5:51PM server time by DJDark41
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #2   9/25/07 5:51:06PM   

garrick

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Well, wait and see. Wandy is a very talented fighter, theirs no doubt about that. It just depends on how long it takes them to get used to the Octagon. I personally don't think a fighter should be judged on his first appearance. That's not fair. Give him a couple fights before you start to judge. I think if Wandy stays focused and trains like it's a title fight, he'll be impressive.

Post #3   9/25/07 6:04:35PM   

pv3Hpv3p

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I like the points that you brought up, I just can't tell if I agree because its good logic or if favoring Wanderlei has something to do with it, lol, probably a little bit of both...

With that being said, I think it's great that Wand is actually taking the time off and putting himself back together, so to speak... I think he will train harder than ever for his action in the UFC, it's just a question of how battle-torn he is from the wars he's had in the past and if he can adjust (like you said)...

And to whomever said, that all Pride fighters have said blah blah blah, was not correct... CroCop admitted that he didn't train in a cage or for elbows before going into fight Gonzaga (he just plain lost to Kongo, but that's a different topic altogether)... And Shogun said he didn't have a gameplan when he came out to fight Griffin, WTF was he thinking?

I think, especially when you look at Shogun and CC... They carried a feeling of invincibilty around them... CC came over after winning the OWGP, and many have said that he's had an almost arrogant air about him at times... He was riding high and thought he was unbeatable... And as for Shogun, when you have all the people around you and many of the fans out there screaming that he is a "king without a crown" and the best 205er around, it's going to get to your head...

Now on the other hand, Wandy has been humbled... The fight against CC was his first real KO loss (i know Vitor TKO'd him, but he didn't put him out)... And that was understandable at the time, he was carrying around extra weight and fighting a natural HVY... And then to come back and lose his title to Henderson, who he's already convincingly beaten once and more or less sent down to 185, had to have some mental repercusions for him...

IMO, that's going to put things into perspective for him... He's not walking into the cage thinking he's untouchable... He's coming in there hungry, with something to prove, and almost with a chip on his shoulder... I am very excited to see him fight in the octagon again... And think (and hope) that we will see the old Wandy back....

WAR WANDERLEI "AX MURDERER" SILVA

Post #4   9/25/07 6:09:32PM   

nickcuc547

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i think the octogon bodes well for wandy's game, he is great in the clinch and fighting inside, the cage is much more rewarding to that type of style then a ring. i would love to see him be a force in the ufc as he was in pride.

Post #5   9/25/07 6:11:03PM   

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Posted by nickcuc547

i think the octogon bodes well for wandy's game, he is great in the clinch and fighting inside, the cage is much more rewarding to that type of style then a ring. i would love to see him be a force in the ufc as he was in pride.



That's exactly what made Shogun so good. If Wandy fights anyone but Chuck Liddell, he is going to lose. The reason is that Chuck is probably the only guy that is going to stand up and bang with him without descretion. Everyone else is going to take him to the ground if his striking gets to be too much. For example Forrest would have no problems taking Wanderlei down to the ground, and unlike pride, they won't get stood up if Forrest is keeping busy. The problem with Wanderlei is that he is the exact polar opposite of Tito Ortiz. His standup is pretty much unmatched but his ground game is garbage along with his sprawl. Tito has shit standup, decent takedown, and awesome ground and pound. It perfectly explains why each of them has done so well in their respective organizations. Pride favors standup, UFC favors ground. Anyway, people really need to consider that although Silva is a great striker, he also has no regard for being taken down. If he were to fight someone like Tito Ortiz, as soon as he tried to clinch with Tito he would find himself on his back.

Post #6   9/25/07 6:30:40PM   

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Posted by nubby


Posted by nickcuc547

i think the octogon bodes well for wandy's game, he is great in the clinch and fighting inside, the cage is much more rewarding to that type of style then a ring. i would love to see him be a force in the ufc as he was in pride.



That's exactly what made Shogun so good. If Wandy fights anyone but Chuck Liddell, he is going to lose. The reason is that Chuck is probably the only guy that is going to stand up and bang with him without descretion. Everyone else is going to take him to the ground if his striking gets to be too much. For example Forrest would have no problems taking Wanderlei down to the ground, and unlike pride, they won't get stood up if Forrest is keeping busy. The problem with Wanderlei is that he is the exact polar opposite of Tito Ortiz. His standup is pretty much unmatched but his ground game is garbage along with his sprawl. Tito has shit standup, decent takedown, and awesome ground and pound. It perfectly explains why each of them has done so well in their respective organizations. Pride favors standup, UFC favors ground. Anyway, people really need to consider that although Silva is a great striker, he also has no regard for being taken down. If he were to fight someone like Tito Ortiz, as soon as he tried to clinch with Tito he would find himself on his back.



good point but shogun didnt lose to forrest because of his style, he lost because he fought sluggish and sloppy, now wandy could come out flat in some of his fights but more often then not he doesnt.

Post #7   9/25/07 6:49:40PM   

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Posted by nubby


Posted by nickcuc547

i think the octogon bodes well for wandy's game, he is great in the clinch and fighting inside, the cage is much more rewarding to that type of style then a ring. i would love to see him be a force in the ufc as he was in pride.



That's exactly what made Shogun so good. If Wandy fights anyone but Chuck Liddell, he is going to lose. The reason is that Chuck is probably the only guy that is going to stand up and bang with him without descretion. Everyone else is going to take him to the ground if his striking gets to be too much. For example Forrest would have no problems taking Wanderlei down to the ground, and unlike pride, they won't get stood up if Forrest is keeping busy. The problem with Wanderlei is that he is the exact polar opposite of Tito Ortiz. His standup is pretty much unmatched but his ground game is garbage along with his sprawl. Tito has shit standup, decent takedown, and awesome ground and pound. It perfectly explains why each of them has done so well in their respective organizations. Pride favors standup, UFC favors ground. Anyway, people really need to consider that although Silva is a great striker, he also has no regard for being taken down. If he were to fight someone like Tito Ortiz, as soon as he tried to clinch with Tito he would find himself on his back.


nick makes the most sense.that is exactly right. when tito and silva first faced tito controlled him on the ground the whole fight. when they were standing silva rocked him but then tito took him down.

Post #8   9/25/07 8:16:37PM   

roman

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ONE REASON!!!!! because one of these Pride guys has to make a splash and actually win. LOL

God I hope Wandy is the one who does it.

Post #9   9/25/07 8:27:25PM   

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I wouldn't mind Wandy winning, in fact I expect him to beat Liddell if they ever fight. He just needs to tighten up his damn ground game!

Post #10   9/25/07 8:28:13PM   

cmill21

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Posted by nubby

I wouldn't mind Wandy winning, in fact I expect him to beat Liddell if they ever fight. He just needs to tighten up his damn ground game!



Chucks hands are to low to fight strikers like wand, so I agree. I don't think wand would lose to to many people, he's mentally tough, and can take/dish out a hell of a beating. I don't the the cage favours his style though.

Post #11   9/25/07 9:51:09PM   

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i just hope those 2 fight it would be rwally intertaining and maybee he could give the Pride nutthuger some Pride back lol

Post #12   9/26/07 7:25:45AM   

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I think the MAIN reason why Pride fighters arent doing well is because there LACK OF AGGRESSION!!! You probably think I'm crazy because that's a;; pride fighters are known for having, non stop aggression!

But IN shogun's fight I saw 0 aggression that we used to see form him in Pride...I think I remember CC pressing Gonzaga but didn't train in a cage or trained with elbows so that's his mistake...but in the Kongo fight I saw LITTLE aggression in the first but yeah he did have a broken rib...

Think of all the fighters who have been successful in the UFC from Pride...

RAMPAGE, Anderson Silva, Big Nog, Thiago Silva...

THEY HAVE ALL BEEN AGGRESSIVE!!!!

MY POINT!!!

I CANNOT see Wandy having no aggression, ITS JUST NOT POSSIBLE!!! That's why in December we will see a BRAWL!!! and a highlight KO from Wandy that will help put dignity back in the Pride fighters that have lost in the UFC...

Post #13   9/26/07 7:45:59AM   

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Posted by DJDark41

Well...all the other fighters from PRIDE have said that they were ready for the UFC and to fight in the cage, and they say they've learned from past PRIDE fighters who made the mistake of not being prepared, but they lose anyway and blah blah blah and all that. I'm almost thinking Chuck Liddell will win just based on the fact that PRIDE fighters just for some reason can't win(aside from Rampage)inside the Octagon. Still will be an interesting fight though.



I completely agree. I think that the Pride fighters are great fighters no doubt. They wouldn't have gotten where they were based on luck... they were dominant and aggressive and put on a great show.

I don't mean this as a bash or an accusation... but more as a "what if". In Pride there was no steroid testing... and after the latest "Steroids in MMA" articles from every major sports magazine, paper, etc. you can guarantee the UFC doesn't want any more of that publicity, and will not have it. I wouldn't be surprised if Dana had a little sit down with the Pride fighters before their appearances and let them know that IF they were doing it, they won't be doing it in the UFC or they will be done (as they control many organizations now... Maybe Dana should start wearing the optic on a chain like the Monopoly guy).

I am in no way saying that I think the Pride fighters are a bunch of Steroid abusers, just asking a question. Everyone talked about how Shogun did not look near as aggressive as he had in Pride, didn't look mentally there, looked smaller, and he gassed out. Anyone who knows about steroids knows that when a person comes off them, their estrogen levels skyrocket and their body temporarily is not producing testosterone. The effects... low aggression, mood swings, depression, muscle loss, etc., etc.

Page had been beaten by some of the top fighters in Pride, but when they come to the UFC he is the only one who is really dominating.

Again, not accusing or pointing any fingers, just raising a question. Not trying to start an argument either... I know that the mere thought that someone's MMA hero taking steroids is absurd and impossible to that fan but... Royce Gracie got busted for doing it. How many people saw that one coming?

Post #14   9/26/07 9:15:58AM   

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Posted by jgordon85
nick makes the most sense.that is exactly right. when tito and silva first faced tito controlled him on the ground the whole fight. when they were standing silva rocked him but then tito took him down.



Yeah, but Tito also rocked Wandy in that fight.

Post #15   9/26/07 9:17:34AM   
 
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