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Cris Cyborg wants Ronda Rousey fight, requests 140-pound catchweight

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Posted by FlashyG

Maybe Ronda went too far saying Cyborg didn't win on skill but who knows how much her cheating aided her in those wins. The fact that her physique is much larger than any other woman in the weight class gives enough reason to suspect her of cheating long before she was actually caught. This is also the same argument used against Overeem so don't go trying to spin this into a gender thing

Overeem is criticized for his steroid use ALL the time. In fact it happens in almost 100% of discussions that involve him. It even happened long before he was ever caught for them so I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on there.

That's a nice strawman argument in your first sentence, so I'll just skip past that and move on to the second.. I'm not even a Rousey fan, she's attractive yes, and a great fighter, but outside the cage she has an attitude that rubs me the wrong way.

Cyborg isn't the "evil villain" for calling out Rousey, she's gets that mantle because she's a cheater and she's lost the respect of many who follow the sport. Rousey may have lost that respect outside the cage, but at least when she fights she does so without doping to get an advantage.

Another strawman, who has compared her to anyone even close to Anderson. She has been called a champion because she is one.

That isn't a fact at all, its your opinion. (And now you're the only calling her a man. )

Questioning her gender was wrong, but as I've said I don't care for Ronda outside the cage. She has a big mouth and often sticks her foot in it by trying to emulate Chael too much, but inside the cage she has the moral high ground over Santos since Santos has been caught as a cheater.

Its no different from the Men, when you get caught cheating all your wins up to that point become suspect and can rightfully be questioned. If she comes back and starts winning fights while clean she can earn the respect back but she's not being held to some new standard no matter how many strawmen you build to try and convince us.



There's no "maybe" about it. Quit minimizing her actions. Her comments to Cyborg are among the most vile things you can say to another women. Especially a woman that already looks different from her peers.

What I said about her being treated differently because of her gender is absolutely not my opinion. It is a fact and a sentiment that has been echoed by Julie Kedzie and Shannon Knapp. The simple fact that you're claiming it's just my opinion when you've seen the comments about her on the PG is a bit absurd. Do not try to pretend like she hasn't been treated different, had horrible things said about her, and had her looks ripped apart.

There's not really a lot of room to argue that.

You're missing my point about her being treated differently. Yes, Overeem was ripped for steroids and I've already said I have no problems with her being ripped for testing positive, but that's not where this ends and you damn well know it. It ends there for Overeem, but not for Cyborg.

On what planet does Ronda have any moral high-ground? Because she didn't use? That doesn't give her "better" morals, that just gives her "different" morals. Her moral compass still allows her to attack the gender of other human beings in what is tantamount to sexual harassment. But, you dismiss it with some bullshit like, "maybe Ronda went to far."

Bro, it is sexual harassment, straight up. And you're saying that Rousey has some sort of moral high ground.

Cyborg has been treated much differently than the men who have tested positive. Not in the sense that she's been called a cheater, but she's had her entire accomplishments discredited where as NOBODY is saying Overeem's complete career was a fluke.

Post #16   8/14/12 1:30:00PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Cyborg has been treated much differently than the men who have tested positive. Not in the sense that she's been called a cheater, but she's had her entire accomplishments discredited where as NOBODY is saying Overeem's complete career was a fluke.




A lot of people have been trying to say this since he began "eating horse beef" in PRIDE and magically put on 60 pounds of muscle.

Post #17   8/14/12 1:44:14PM   

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Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Cyborg has been treated much differently than the men who have tested positive. Not in the sense that she's been called a cheater, but she's had her entire accomplishments discredited where as NOBODY is saying Overeem's complete career was a fluke.




A lot of people have been trying to say this since he began "eating horse beef" in PRIDE and magically put on 60 pounds of muscle.



That is not the same as having your entire gender called into question. Stop trying to compare the two. It's sexual harassment. What she said is considered morally bankrupt by today's standards.

The fact that people are minimizing and trying to somehow make this just about roids is disturbing.

Post #18   8/14/12 1:46:14PM   

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I'll tell you what...

Gord & Tim, next time you're both at work, tell a female coworker that not only does she have a dick, but she is a dick. Let me know what happens.

Post #19   8/14/12 1:54:24PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Cyborg has been treated much differently than the men who have tested positive. Not in the sense that she's been called a cheater, but she's had her entire accomplishments discredited where as NOBODY is saying Overeem's complete career was a fluke.




A lot of people have been trying to say this since he began "eating horse beef" in PRIDE and magically put on 60 pounds of muscle.



That is not the same as having your entire gender called into question. Stop trying to compare the two. It's sexual harassment. What she said is considered morally bankrupt by today's standards.

The fact that people are minimizing and trying to somehow make this just about roids is disturbing.



All you said is that they were treated differently and sited their questionable accomplishments. That's what my response was in regards to, not her gender being questioned.

I was saying that her having all of her ACCOMPLISHMENTS called into question is similar to Overeem because people DO question his accomplishments since his move up from PRIDE Middleweight(205lbs). The subsequent pictures since being dominated by the likes of Arona, Rua, and Lil Nog, documenting his massive growth, do call into question his accomplishments, and are just as diminishing, to me at least, as someone saying that Cyborg being a much bigger fighter than her competition was likely the reason she dominated. I'm not by any stretch going to say it's the same thing, because I'm sure you have some fallacy ready to fire in your holster.

I'm not condoning or condemning a thing that Rousey has said. It's her opinion, and as stated before, she's trying to be a little too much like Sonnen. It sells and she is arguably the most marketable woman's fighter around today. If we're talking about the sexual harrassment, then sure it's out of line, and definitely brash and uncalled for.

Post #20   8/14/12 1:54:48PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

I'll tell you what...

Gord & Tim, next time you're both at work, tell a female coworker that not only does she have a dick, but she is a dick. Let me know what happens.



That's the same how? That would be assuming that Gord and I are both females, since Rousey was calling her like-gender counter part the opposite sex, albeit in a very reprehensible way.

If I were to go and tell my male coworkers that they have a pussy, or that they're being a pussy, they'd either get mad or laugh.

Post #21   8/14/12 1:56:18PM   

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Posted by gartface

All you said is that they were treated differently and sited their questionable accomplishments. That's what my response was in regards to, not her gender being questioned.

I was saying that her having all of her ACCOMPLISHMENTS called into question is similar to Overeem because people DO question his accomplishments since his move up from PRIDE Middleweight(205lbs). The subsequent pictures since being dominated by the likes of Arona, Rua, and Lil Nog, documenting his massive growth, do call into question his accomplishments, and are just as diminishing, to me at least, as someone saying that Cyborg being a much bigger fighter than her competition was likely the reason she dominated. I'm not by any stretch going to say it's the same thing, because I'm sure you have some fallacy ready to fire in your holster.

I'm not condoning or condemning a thing that Rousey has said. It's her opinion, and as stated before, she's trying to be a little too much like Sonnen. It sells and she is arguably the most marketable woman's fighter around today. If we're talking about the sexual harrassment, then sure it's out of line, and definitely brash and uncalled for.



It's not the same, Tim. People say that Overeem got really big, they accuse him of being on Roids, but nobody has gone on record saying that all of his wins were because he cheated.

It's absolutely not the same thing. The simple fact of the matter is that I have seen everything that Cyborg has ever done or stood for called into question. Are you really telling me that it's uncommon for a woman to have everything she's done called into question because of a mistake?

Are you really suggesting that society does that to men? No, they pick PARTS of what they have done. When it's a woman, though, her entire career was a lie. This has been documented in sociological studies, feminist studies, and work-place case law.

Post #22   8/14/12 1:59:05PM   

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Of all people, Tim, you should understand what I am saying. We have spoken to these women. We have spoken to female CEO's and they have all said the same thing. Hell, even on our interview with Shannon, she supported Cyborg and said that it's not acceptable how many people have discredited her entire career, whereas men are forgiven and forgotten.

This came from the mouth of a female promote who knows her.

Post #23   8/14/12 2:02:00PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

It's not the same, Tim. People say that Overeem got really big, they accuse him of being on Roids, but nobody has gone on record saying that all of his wins were because he cheated.

It's absolutely not the same thing. The simple fact of the matter is that I have seen everything that Cyborg has ever done or stood for called into question. Are you really telling me that it's uncommon for a woman to have everything she's done called into question because of a mistake?

Are you really suggesting that society does that to men? No, they pick PARTS of what they have done. When it's a woman, though, her entire career was a lie. This has been documented in sociological studies, feminist studies, and work-place case law.



Those photos and people's suggestions about his weight are made to substantiate a questionable run of good results, since his times at 205(as stated above). Those aren't just coincidental findings. "Oh man, look how big he got, and he's winning all the time now, good choice by him." It's more so "Of course he's winning, look how unnaturally large he's gotten." And of course they wouldn't say all of his wins because he wasn't the same size his entire career. They question the time he started to bulk up, until now, you know when he tested positive prior to his scheduled title bout?

You want to know the difference between the two, and between Cyborg and a lot of male fighters that have tested positive(eg Overeem, Barnett, Marquardt)? Look at how many fights the fighter has had. Those three had been doing this a lot longer than Cyborg and began a string of dominance that coincided with their physical growth and their subsequent positive steroid test. The fact that Cyborg has 12 fights to go on, all but one of which(I'll count her recent win) was a loss, and has been relatively the same size her entire career calls her wins into question.

To my recollection there hasn't been a massive increase in size for her during her career, and that's why, to ME at least, it's justifiable to question those wins, as well as questioning Marquardt's rise to the top of middleweight contention, Barnett's domination in Japan prior to his positive Affliction test(and prior with the UFC), as well as Overeem's string of impressive victories coinciding with his size increase, and many others.

Another possibility for the increased scrutinization of Cyborg is the lack of female fighters that share the spotlight. She was a dominant champion, and she had far more attention put on her than most, sharing the spotlight with who? Carano, Rousey and Tate? This is the first big bust for major women's mma. I'm not positive because I wasn't watching MMA at the time, but I'm sure that the MMA community was up in arms over Barnett's initial positive test because he was dominant and it was the earlier stages of the sport. Maybe it's that we've become so jaded about men testing positive, and never expect women(save Marion Jones) to take steroids.

There's no doubt, and this discussion is probably for somewhere else, but that women don't get fair treatment in society. I'm sure it's documented in some studies somewhere, but she's a superstar athlete and that spotlight is always going to be bigger on her, especially being a huge fish in a puddle.

Post #24   8/14/12 2:10:33PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Of all people, Tim, you should understand what I am saying. We have spoken to these women. We have spoken to female CEO's and they have all said the same thing. Hell, even on our interview with Shannon, she supported Cyborg and said that it's not acceptable how many people have discredited her entire career, whereas men are forgiven and forgotten.

This came from the mouth of a female promote who knows her.



Josh, I'm playing by your rules. It's not in any way the same as me effeminating a woman. It would be the same as me emmasculating a man, which normally has two repercussions, fighting and laughing.

I'm not saying that the light should be shined brighter on her than the others, nor am I saying that men shouldn't be held to a higher standard as well. I'm staking claims for why this is happening.

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Post #25   8/14/12 2:15:20PM   

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Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

It's not the same, Tim. People say that Overeem got really big, they accuse him of being on Roids, but nobody has gone on record saying that all of his wins were because he cheated.

It's absolutely not the same thing. The simple fact of the matter is that I have seen everything that Cyborg has ever done or stood for called into question. Are you really telling me that it's uncommon for a woman to have everything she's done called into question because of a mistake?

Are you really suggesting that society does that to men? No, they pick PARTS of what they have done. When it's a woman, though, her entire career was a lie. This has been documented in sociological studies, feminist studies, and work-place case law.



Those photos and people's suggestions about his weight are made to substantiate a questionable run of good results, since his times at 205(as stated above). Those aren't just coincidental findings. "Oh man, look how big he got, and he's winning all the time now, good choice by him." It's more so "Of course he's winning, look how unnaturally large he's gotten." And of course they wouldn't say all of his wins because he wasn't the same size his entire career. They question the time he started to bulk up, until now, you know when he tested positive prior to his scheduled title bout?

You want to know the difference between the two, and between Cyborg and a lot of male fighters that have tested positive(eg Overeem, Barnett, Marquardt)? Look at how many fights the fighter has had. Those three had been doing this a lot longer than Cyborg and began a string of dominance that coincided with their physical growth and their subsequent positive steroid test. The fact that Cyborg has 12 fights to go on, all but one of which(I'll count her recent win) was a loss, and has been relatively the same size her entire career calls her wins into question.

To my recollection there hasn't been a massive increase in size for her during her career, and that's why, to ME at least, it's justifiable to question those wins, as well as questioning Marquardt's rise to the top of middleweight contention, Barnett's domination in Japan prior to his positive Affliction test(and prior with the UFC), as well as Overeem's string of impressive victories coinciding with his size increase, and many others.

Another possibility for the increased scrutinization of Cyborg is the lack of female fighters that share the spotlight. She was a dominant champion, and she had far more attention put on her than most, sharing the spotlight with who? Carano, Rousey and Tate? This is the first big bust for major women's mma. I'm not positive because I wasn't watching MMA at the time, but I'm sure that the MMA community was up in arms over Barnett's initial positive test because he was dominant and it was the earlier stages of the sport. Maybe it's that we've become so jaded about men testing positive, and never expect women(save Marion Jones) to take steroids.

There's no doubt, and this discussion is probably for somewhere else, but that women don't get fair treatment in society. I'm sure it's documented in some studies somewhere, but she's a superstar athlete and that spotlight is always going to be bigger on her, especially being a huge fish in a puddle.



Did you notice, however, that nothing you have said about Overeem included an attack on his gender ("she looks like a man"), included sexually derogatory comments ("she has a dick"), and nobody ever attacked his spouse claiming "they were the female in the relationship."

Every, single one of those things has been said about Cyborg on here. By other fighters. And by fans.

And if you truly can't see that difference, then I don't know what to tell you. It's very different for Cyborg. She is verbally assaulted on a daily basis because she doesn't look like society wants her to look. Overeem has never once had to deal with that.

Post #26   8/14/12 2:15:25PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

It's not the same, Tim. People say that Overeem got really big, they accuse him of being on Roids, but nobody has gone on record saying that all of his wins were because he cheated.

It's absolutely not the same thing. The simple fact of the matter is that I have seen everything that Cyborg has ever done or stood for called into question. Are you really telling me that it's uncommon for a woman to have everything she's done called into question because of a mistake?

Are you really suggesting that society does that to men? No, they pick PARTS of what they have done. When it's a woman, though, her entire career was a lie. This has been documented in sociological studies, feminist studies, and work-place case law.



Those photos and people's suggestions about his weight are made to substantiate a questionable run of good results, since his times at 205(as stated above). Those aren't just coincidental findings. "Oh man, look how big he got, and he's winning all the time now, good choice by him." It's more so "Of course he's winning, look how unnaturally large he's gotten." And of course they wouldn't say all of his wins because he wasn't the same size his entire career. They question the time he started to bulk up, until now, you know when he tested positive prior to his scheduled title bout?

You want to know the difference between the two, and between Cyborg and a lot of male fighters that have tested positive(eg Overeem, Barnett, Marquardt)? Look at how many fights the fighter has had. Those three had been doing this a lot longer than Cyborg and began a string of dominance that coincided with their physical growth and their subsequent positive steroid test. The fact that Cyborg has 12 fights to go on, all but one of which(I'll count her recent win) was a loss, and has been relatively the same size her entire career calls her wins into question.

To my recollection there hasn't been a massive increase in size for her during her career, and that's why, to ME at least, it's justifiable to question those wins, as well as questioning Marquardt's rise to the top of middleweight contention, Barnett's domination in Japan prior to his positive Affliction test(and prior with the UFC), as well as Overeem's string of impressive victories coinciding with his size increase, and many others.

Another possibility for the increased scrutinization of Cyborg is the lack of female fighters that share the spotlight. She was a dominant champion, and she had far more attention put on her than most, sharing the spotlight with who? Carano, Rousey and Tate? This is the first big bust for major women's mma. I'm not positive because I wasn't watching MMA at the time, but I'm sure that the MMA community was up in arms over Barnett's initial positive test because he was dominant and it was the earlier stages of the sport. Maybe it's that we've become so jaded about men testing positive, and never expect women(save Marion Jones) to take steroids.

There's no doubt, and this discussion is probably for somewhere else, but that women don't get fair treatment in society. I'm sure it's documented in some studies somewhere, but she's a superstar athlete and that spotlight is always going to be bigger on her, especially being a huge fish in a puddle.



Did you notice, however, that nothing you have said about Overeem included an attack on his gender ("she looks like a man"), included sexually derogatory comments ("she has a dick"), and nobody ever attacked his spouse claiming "they were the female in the relationship."

Every, single one of those things has been said about Cyborg on here. By other fighters. And by fans.

And if you truly can't see that difference, then I don't know what to tell you. It's very different for Cyborg. She is verbally assaulted on a daily basis because she doesn't look like society wants her to look. Overeem has never once had to deal with that.



All of that stuff is said outside the ring, and we're, or at least I am, talking about accomplishments and how they're handled and/or diminished by people. Not talking about gender. As I stated it was out of line. We're talking about how people are treated as ATHLETES, and their accomplishments in their craft.

Overeem is scrutinized professionally, as is Cyborg. That's the parallel I draw. They both have had a large string of success followed by a positive steroid test. I recognize they are of opposite gender, and I recognize that Overeem doesn't have to deal with that gender discrimination, day in, day out.

Post #27   8/14/12 2:18:39PM   

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Posted by gartface


All of that stuff is said outside the ring, and we're, or at least I am, talking about accomplishments and how they're handled and/or diminished by people. Not talking about gender. As I stated it was out of line. We're talking about how people are treated as ATHLETES, and their accomplishments in their craft.

Overeem is scrutinized professionally, as is Cyborg. That's the parallel I draw. They both have had a large string of success followed by a positive steroid test. I recognize they are of opposite gender, and I recognize that Overeem doesn't have to deal with that gender discrimination, day in, day out.



Your parallel is fine until it stops being fine. If that's where it ended every time, you'd have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately, it never stops there. Everyone always continues on to the lowest common denominator.

You might be talking about her professional accomplishments, but Rousey was basically saying her entire career was a lie followed up by the fact that she had a dick. Rousey sank where MANY other people sink.

I'm still stunned you can't see how your parallel stops holding water once people begin attacking her gender. Which seems to happen almost every time a post is made about her.

Post #28   8/14/12 2:22:02PM   

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Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

There's no "maybe" about it. Quit minimizing her actions. Her comments to Cyborg are among the most vile things you can say to another women. Especially a woman that already looks different from her peers.



A woman who for all we know looks different than her peers because she has been injecting herself with Steroids. Nobody is defending Rousey's words here, maybe this is another thing you should be arguing about on Twitter or Facebook.


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
What I said about her being treated differently because of her gender is absolutely not my opinion. It is a fact and a sentiment that has been echoed by Julie Kedzie and Shannon Knapp. The simple fact that you're claiming it's just my opinion when you've seen the comments about her on the PG is a bit absurd. Do not try to pretend like she hasn't been treated different, had horrible things said about her, and had her looks ripped apart.

There's not really a lot of room to argue that.



You said men "IN THIS THREAD" have held her to a different standard, I'm pretty sure Julie Kedzie and Shannon Knapp aren't discussing the personal opinions of playground posters so I'm not sure what they have to do with anything.

I'm not saying nobody here has EVER treated her differently, i'm saying its only your opinion that its happened in this thread.


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
You're missing my point about her being treated differently. Yes, Overeem was ripped for steroids and I've already said I have no problems with her being ripped for testing positive, but that's not where this ends and you damn well know it. It ends there for Overeem, but not for Cyborg.



What are you talking about? The only criticism she's received in this thread is for being a cheater. If she's been unfairly criticized in other threads or on other mediums make your complaints there.

Other than the unfair jokes about her appearance (that haven't happened in this thread) her treatment has been exactly the same as it has been for Overeem, and even that unfair treatment is the same as it is for every other woman in MMA. Rousey and Carano regarless of talent will always be better known for their looks than whatever they accomplish in the cage. That discussion is worthy of its own thread but isn't really the point here.

Saying Santos should move to Rousey's division is not holding her to a new standard, she called out Rousey. Rousey fights at 135, if she wants the fight she knows what she has to do.


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
On what planet does Ronda have any moral high-ground? Because she didn't use? That doesn't give her "better" morals, that just gives her "different" morals. Her moral compass still allows her to attack the gender of other human beings in what is tantamount to sexual harassment. But, you dismiss it with some bullshit like, "maybe Ronda went to far."


Bro, it is sexual harassment, straight up. And you're saying that Rousey has some sort of moral high ground.



I said "inside the cage" she has the moral highground. I don't care about the bullshit that takes place outside the cage. I don't know these people and I never will, I watch them fight and I want to watch fighters who are fighting on a level playing field. One of the 2 fighters in question is a cheater and the other isn't that's really all I find relevant when it comes to a fight between them.


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
Cyborg has been treated much differently than the men who have tested positive. Not in the sense that she's been called a cheater, but she's had her entire accomplishments discredited where as NOBODY is saying Overeem's complete career was a fluke.




I do question Overeem's entire career, especially after his PRIDE days when he seemed to have changed his physique into an entirely different fighter. I don't think I'm alone in that either.

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Post #29   8/14/12 2:23:36PM   

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Wow, this escalated quickly.

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Post #30   8/14/12 2:27:50PM   
 
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