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UFC 140 Results: Jon Jones Told to Check on Lyoto Machida Post-Fight to 'Get Some Fans'

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I think Jones is just the latest fighter to be part of a witch hunt. Lesnar received the same treatment for a long time. Sure he's done a few things to raise some eyebrows, but he was never even given a chance. How many people were furious that Lesnar torqued that arm triangle on Carwin, instead of using more technique? Really, that's a concern why? He's not the first to power through a submission and he surely won't be the last. I've watched dozens of fighters literally kick the limp body off of them after a guy doesn't tap to an RNC...only so they could jump up to celebrate faster. I don't recall one conversation of substantial length regarding any of those instances in the 5 years I've discussed MMA here. There are plenty of other examples as well. It's always the same names that come up...and for lesser issues the majority of the time. Once we have it in our head that we don't like someone, cynical thoughts tend to rule every conversation there after.

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Post #16   12/11/11 8:24:54PM   

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Maybe I'm just totally out of the loop on things, but I'm actually baffled as to why people dislike Jones so much to the point of hatred ??? You can definitely choose which fighters you like and dislike for whatever reason, but I just can't seem to figure out what Jones has done to deserve hatred. I hold him up there with GSP and Silva in terms of dominant fighters I absolutely love to watch in the cage because of their freakish ability.

Now I'm from Denver and I'm not quite as baffled about this as I am about how Tebow/the Broncos keep pulling wins out of their asses, but I am still pretty confused. I'm not a Bronco fan by the way, and I'm getting pretty sick of all the "Tebow is the 2nd coming" talk.

Oh well, to each his/her own. For the record, I LOVE Jones.

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Post #17   12/11/11 9:42:59PM   

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Posted by KungFuMaster


I don't want to wish ill will for another person but someone really needs to beat this kid. I can't quite explain why I hate this kid and if I was to try, I would be breaking the site rules.

The way he held onto Machida while knowing Machida was out - and the fact he made no attempt to warn the ref of the dangerous situation - and the fact he dropped Machida while knowing Machida was out. The dropping of Machida was a collaborative effort by Jones and the ref. Both of them fail to do the humane thing which is hold on to Machida.

During the post interview, Jones admitted to Rogan he knew Machida was out but he made no attempt to warn the ref of the danger.

Somebody, beat this kid please. He is arrogant and disrespectful - two of the worsts attributes in any sport or celebrity figures.



I agree with just about everything you wrote here and in this thread.

It might not be Jones' "job" to protect Machida like people are saying.

However, any decent human being would have been more respectful than Jones was. First of all, if the guy goes limp, you can pretty much let go. Fighters do this all the time without waiting for the ref. Or they tell the ref so the ref can check an arm or something.

The worst part was dropping him. He just dropped him and walked away. No decent person would do that. Hold him up. Let him down softly. Something.

You'll notice no one is saying Jones should be fined or suspended or anything. We don't think he did anything illegal under the rules. Just rude, disrespectful, whatever you wanna call it.

Again, it might not be Jones' "job" or "responsibility" but its just human decency.

Post #18   12/11/11 10:26:50PM   

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My friend put it pretty well.

"It's hard to root for the guy. He wins because of his length, and he never had to put in any work to get that benefit."

It's the mythic 84 inch reach.

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Post #19   12/11/11 10:30:45PM   

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Posted by grappler0000

I think Jones is just the latest fighter to be part of a witch hunt. Lesnar received the same treatment for a long time. Sure he's done a few things to raise some eyebrows, but he was never even given a chance. How many people were furious that Lesnar torqued that arm triangle on Carwin, instead of using more technique? Really, that's a concern why? He's not the first to power through a submission and he surely won't be the last. I've watched dozens of fighters literally kick the limp body off of them after a guy doesn't tap to an RNC...only so they could jump up to celebrate faster. I don't recall one conversation of substantial length regarding any of those instances in the 5 years I've discussed MMA here. There are plenty of other examples as well. It's always the same names that come up...and for lesser issues the majority of the time. Once we have it in our head that we don't like someone, cynical thoughts tend to rule every conversation there after.



Equating what Lesnar did and what Jones did is ridiculous. Jones submission also wasn't very technical, but thats not the issue.

I don't really recall any outrage after the lesnar fight. People just mentioned that it was a strength move and that he hadn't suddenly become a "jiu jitsu" wizard (too many people were talking about his evolution ect. ect. when it was just more of the same.)

Maybe instead of a which hunt or some conspiracy people are just consistently bothered by the sorts of things Lesnar and Jones do and think that they reflect bad on the sport?


Posted by npayant

Maybe I'm just totally out of the loop on things, but I'm actually baffled as to why people dislike Jones so much to the point of hatred ??? You can definitely choose which fighters you like and dislike for whatever reason, but I just can't seem to figure out what Jones has done to deserve hatred. I hold him up there with GSP and Silva in terms of dominant fighters I absolutely love to watch in the cage because of their freakish ability.

Now I'm from Denver and I'm not quite as baffled about this as I am about how Tebow/the Broncos keep pulling wins out of their asses, but I am still pretty confused. I'm not a Bronco fan by the way, and I'm getting pretty sick of all the "Tebow is the 2nd coming" talk.

Oh well, to each his/her own. For the record, I LOVE Jones.



He does have freakish ability and no one is discounting that. People just don't like the way he conducts himself.

Like coming out crawling in this fight and his last one. What is that crap?

Thats just rude showmanship. It has nothing to do with fighting and that sort of behavior doesn't belong in the cage.

I might not be able to stop it but I'm entitled to not like it.

Jones is not a martial artist as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't exhibit the appropriate values.

Post #20   12/11/11 10:33:21PM   

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by grappler0000

I think Jones is just the latest fighter to be part of a witch hunt. Lesnar received the same treatment for a long time. Sure he's done a few things to raise some eyebrows, but he was never even given a chance. How many people were furious that Lesnar torqued that arm triangle on Carwin, instead of using more technique? Really, that's a concern why? He's not the first to power through a submission and he surely won't be the last. I've watched dozens of fighters literally kick the limp body off of them after a guy doesn't tap to an RNC...only so they could jump up to celebrate faster. I don't recall one conversation of substantial length regarding any of those instances in the 5 years I've discussed MMA here. There are plenty of other examples as well. It's always the same names that come up...and for lesser issues the majority of the time. Once we have it in our head that we don't like someone, cynical thoughts tend to rule every conversation there after.



Equating what Lesnar did and what Jones did is ridiculous. Jones submission also wasn't very technical, but thats not the issue.

I don't really recall any outrage after the lesnar fight. People just mentioned that it was a strength move and that he hadn't suddenly become a "jiu jitsu" wizard (too many people were talking about his evolution ect. ect. when it was just more of the same.)

Maybe instead of a which hunt or some conspiracy people are just consistently bothered by the sorts of things Lesnar and Jones do and think that they reflect bad on the sport?


Posted by npayant

Maybe I'm just totally out of the loop on things, but I'm actually baffled as to why people dislike Jones so much to the point of hatred ??? You can definitely choose which fighters you like and dislike for whatever reason, but I just can't seem to figure out what Jones has done to deserve hatred. I hold him up there with GSP and Silva in terms of dominant fighters I absolutely love to watch in the cage because of their freakish ability.

Now I'm from Denver and I'm not quite as baffled about this as I am about how Tebow/the Broncos keep pulling wins out of their asses, but I am still pretty confused. I'm not a Bronco fan by the way, and I'm getting pretty sick of all the "Tebow is the 2nd coming" talk.

Oh well, to each his/her own. For the record, I LOVE Jones.



He does have freakish ability and no one is discounting that. People just don't like the way he conducts himself.

Like coming out crawling in this fight and his last one. What is that crap?

Thats just rude showmanship. It has nothing to do with fighting and that sort of behavior doesn't belong in the cage.

I might not be able to stop it but I'm entitled to not like it.

Jones is not a martial artist as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't exhibit the appropriate values.



Hmmm, I don't see how Jones doing the crawl thing is any more disrespectful than what your favorite fighter Silva does (especially in the Maia fight)...taunting other fighters who can't even come close to hitting him. I guess he's not a mixed martial artist either because he doesn't display the appropriate values. Please.... Why even focus on something as irrelevant as that?

I guess I don't pay attention to little things like that, which is why I don't think your favorite fighter is a bad guy, just like I don't think Jones is either.

Not a mixed martial artist??? That's laughable.

Post #21   12/11/11 11:56:14PM   

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Posted by bjj1605

Equating what Lesnar did and what Jones did is ridiculous.




I absolutely wasn't comparing the two. I'm just using both as examples of things that they get criticized for, where others don't...nothing more. Lesnar hadn't even opened his mouth before people were bashing him. It's because of his affiliation with pro wrestling. He's bad for the sport because he was an actor for a few years? There were multiple people on here that shit on Brock for that arm triangle. I still don't get that one, but I don't want to dwell on that. I'm not saying that you have to like everything these guys do, but they get shit on for every step they take. Once people form an opinion, they have a hard time changing there minds. The problem is that people make assumptions many times and form an uneducated opinion. Look how many people trashed Kimbo when he started the sport. From the start, I said that I don't have a problem with the guy...the only problem that I had was how Shaw was marketing him, but that's not his fault. Once he started doing interviews, some people were like wow, maybe he's not so bad after all. All it takes is the benefit of the doubt sometimes...but apparently that's hard to come by. To each his own I guess. I try to stay positive. Aside from Tito, Bisping, and sometimes Rashad, I rarely have a bad thing to say about any fighter. And I'm not claiming I'm perfect either. I find myself being cynical with Tito sometimes...but, I try to recognize it and adapt accordingly.

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Post #22   12/12/11 12:03:02AM   

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Posted by grappler0000

I think Jones is just the latest fighter to be part of a witch hunt. Lesnar received the same treatment for a long time. Sure he's done a few things to raise some eyebrows, but he was never even given a chance. How many people were furious that Lesnar torqued that arm triangle on Carwin, instead of using more technique? Really, that's a concern why? He's not the first to power through a submission and he surely won't be the last. I've watched dozens of fighters literally kick the limp body off of them after a guy doesn't tap to an RNC...only so they could jump up to celebrate faster. I don't recall one conversation of substantial length regarding any of those instances in the 5 years I've discussed MMA here. There are plenty of other examples as well. It's always the same names that come up...and for lesser issues the majority of the time. Once we have it in our head that we don't like someone, cynical thoughts tend to rule every conversation there after.



It is no surprise I do not like the kid. I'm sure you know I do not like Anderson Silva either but I have not attacked Silva's character to the extent I do Jones'. Why? The answer is simple. It is not that I am targeting him in this witch hunt you are talking about; it is the simple fact he is in the spotlight which subjects him to more media exposure which, in turn, subjects him to more criticism. >>> And we would not be criticizing him if he did not do or say things which bring attention.

Just as bjj stated, Jones has to be prepped on what to say during interviews. He puts on this superficial character for the media. Those who have a little bit of insight on psychology know the kid is lying through his teeth. When a person is speaking from his heart, you can hear it and feel it. When a person is calculating his speech and or response, you will know it because of the lack of emotion and sincerity in his tone>>>>>and that is why it takes a special person to be a politician - someone who can lie to the public and make it seem genuine.

This kid is tying to pretend he is humble. I take offense to that...I would much rather he be himself and I would respect him more for it. Take Sonnen for instance... He is the biggest arrogant SOB in the world of MMA but he receives more love from fans IMO because there is something genuine about his presentations. I'm not implying everything Sonnen says is true. What I am saying is Sonnen does not hide his feelings. He is rude, obnoxious, and very condescending but what he is doing has more integrity than what Jones has displayed.

I understand Jones is young. I am probably too harsh on him as a person and perhaps that is due to my own upbringing and the types of athletes I appreciate. When I compare Jones to someone like Michael Phelps, there is a huge gap of differences between the two athletes. One comes off as a hero and is well received by his fellow colleagues, friends, and sports fans. The other has to try really hard to win some fans and has to be coached in the department of ethics.

When you are a good person, people will know it and see it and will commend you for it. When you are this other person who has to try to do and say the right things for when the cameras are rolling, it shows and it reflects what a terrible and deceitful person you are especially if you are not a good actor.

Jones strike me as someone who has very little respect for people in general -even his so called closest friends which I doubt he has many of... He seems to be the type who will fight his own friends when engaging in a heated argument. He has a plain personality and does not take jokes too kindly. He has trouble conversing with male strangers simply because male strangers are not able to break the ice with him. If he is line and ahead of you at the grocery store and you said, "Hey, aren't you that ufc fighter I saw on TV?" - he will turn, roll his eyes and smirk and you will be lucky if he actually gives you a verbal response. >>>Because in his mind, you should know him >>>and this is one of the biggest flaws of his character. He reminds me of people who, when crossing the streets, will purposely walk slower to simply piss off drivers.

It is my assumption, Jones only surrenders his wall when interacting with women and elderly people and even then it is not genuine. It is more of a trained and politically correct behavior that he must follow.

Post #23   12/12/11 2:23:28AM   

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lmao, jesus.

Post #24   12/12/11 2:29:16AM   

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Posted by grappler0000

The problem is that people make assumptions many times and form an uneducated opinion.



I have seen enough of Jones to formulate an educated opinion.

Who comes out and says I don't want to sign fake belts? To think it - is one thing but to come out and say it - is rather disturbing to me and it reflects what type of person he is.

Post #25   12/12/11 2:34:25AM   

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Posted by bjj1605


Posted by KungFuMaster


I don't want to wish ill will for another person but someone really needs to beat this kid. I can't quite explain why I hate this kid and if I was to try, I would be breaking the site rules.

The way he held onto Machida while knowing Machida was out - and the fact he made no attempt to warn the ref of the dangerous situation - and the fact he dropped Machida while knowing Machida was out. The dropping of Machida was a collaborative effort by Jones and the ref. Both of them fail to do the humane thing which is hold on to Machida.

During the post interview, Jones admitted to Rogan he knew Machida was out but he made no attempt to warn the ref of the danger.

Somebody, beat this kid please. He is arrogant and disrespectful - two of the worsts attributes in any sport or celebrity figures.



I agree with just about everything you wrote here and in this thread.

It might not be Jones' "job" to protect Machida like people are saying.

However, any decent human being would have been more respectful than Jones was. First of all, if the guy goes limp, you can pretty much let go. Fighters do this all the time without waiting for the ref. Or they tell the ref so the ref can check an arm or something.

The worst part was dropping him. He just dropped him and walked away. No decent person would do that. Hold him up. Let him down softly. Something.

You'll notice no one is saying Jones should be fined or suspended or anything. We don't think he did anything illegal under the rules. Just rude, disrespectful, whatever you wanna call it.

Again, it might not be Jones' "job" or "responsibility" but its just human decency.



Thanks man. I am glad I am not the only one who sees it this way.

Post #26   12/12/11 2:54:11AM   

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Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by ncordless


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by Budgellism

Jon Jones may be the best fighter in the world, but he still has a bit of an image problem. He's seen as having a very carefully manufactured public image. Some people have an issue with that image as being "phony" while others have taken issue with Jones as being "cocky." This has led to situations like the UFC 140 weigh-in where Jones was booed loudly by the crowd in attendance.

Cocky doesn't bother me at all, I expect the best in the world at anything to be cocky. But I have written in the past that I don't care for some of how he comes across so carefully managed in public. It's a personal thing and everyone is going to see different athletes through different lenses

There's a video circulating now from the aftermath of 140 where, after choking Lyoto Machida unconscious, Jones is told by Greg Jackson to check on Machida for the purpose of "getting some fans."

VIDEO AFTER LINK

LINK



I don't want to wish ill will for another person but someone really needs to beat this kid. I can't quite explain why I hate this kid and if I was to try, I would be breaking the site rules.

The way he held onto Machida while knowing Machida was out - and the fact he made no attempt to warn the ref of the dangerous situation - and the fact he dropped Machida while knowing Machida was out. The dropping of Machida was a collaborative effort by Jones and the ref. Both of them fail to do the humane thing which is hold on to Machida.

During the post interview, Jones admitted to Rogan he knew Machida was out but he made no attempt to warn the ref of the danger.

Somebody, beat this kid please. He is arrogant and disrespectful - two of the worsts attributes in any sport or celebrity figures.



I don't know man. If you don't like watching passed-out dudes collapse into a pile, this sport might not be for you. There was nothing wrong with what Jones did. He held the sub until the ref told him to stop and then he let go. That was exactly what he was supposed to do. You are not supposed to tell the ref that your opponent is out, that's the ref's job. How many bogus stoppages have we seen where the guy applying the choke says his opponent is out when he isn't. If Machida doesn't want to fall to the ground, then he should have tapped. But it is hardly Jones' responsibility to lay him down softly, fluff his pillow, and kiss him goodnight.




You are correct. There is nothing wrong with what Jones did in the cage. It is not his responsibility to ensure the safety of his opponent. With regard to what we are talking about, Jones did nothing wrong but he did nothing honorable either. It takes a special kind of fighter to want to protect his opponent from a serious injury and or fate.

I have seen many fighters who exhibit good morals and ethics who have refrained from delivering unnecessary punishment to his opponents. I have seen victorious fighters who have expressed concerns for their opponents. I don't expect Jon Jones to be those type of fighters. Those fighters exhibit heart, good sportsmanship, humanity, and good will, all of which Jon Jones does not have.

No one here is arguing Jones did something wrong. My hatred for the young lad is fueled by his personality and post fight behavior. If Machida had died in the octagon that night, I don't think we would be arguing today. But just because Machida is OK, that does not excuse Jones from his poor sportsmanship which is what we are talking about... You say his sportsmanship is OK or at least you implied it - I say it reeks like the smell of death.

No one is stopping you from not liking Jones. Just don't get all bent out of shape when someone like me expresses his hate for him.

Furthermore, from a guy who once told me he would risk his life to save mine regardless if I am his friend or not, this post I am quoting from him does not reflect it. He is either lying now or lying then.... Which one is it?



Are you serious? You are accusing me of lying!? What a jerk thing to say. Do not ever do that again.

I do maintain that there was nothing wrong with his sportsmanship. He choked Machida, Machida did not tap, ref told him to let go, he did. He played it exactly by the book. And not some bs bushido code of ethics book where you make sure the fighter falls pretty, but instead the code of rules that are designed for fighter safety and fairness. There are reasons for why the rules are the way they are. As grappler said, the refs want people to let go and get out of the way immediately upon their stoppage. You don't let the choke go when someone goes limp. If that was the rule, everyone would go limp every time they were in a choke. That is the oldest trick in the book for getting out of a sub. And when you do let go you and get away so the medics can come in. You don't hold on to him in any fashion, and if you are holding on in any fashion it is the job of the ref to tackle you and get you to let go. Holding on to Machida after the ref told him to let go would have been the wrong thing to do.

You act like Machida almost died. I repeat that if you can't handle someone getting choked unconscious and falling to the floor, you should stop watching mma, or at least learn about the relative risks of techniques. That the choke was applied for longer for a couple seconds than it took for him to lose consciousness is a very low risk in the scheme of things. When people get choked and do not tap, they go unconscious. If they do it standing up, they are going to fall to the ground, just like when they get KOed.

I could care less who you like or hate. Hating fighters is kind of stupid in my book, and hating them for what they do outside the cage, especially when it doesn't involve people getting hurt, cheating, or breaking the law like so many other fighters' who make the news for all the wrong reasons, smells of wwe and soap operas, but to each their own. I understand that there a lot of people whose favorite fighter got demolished by Jones. I also understand that some people have different ideas on how they think other people should behave, and the appropriate level of personal contempt they have when people don't behave the way they think they should But you specifically said that you felt that the way Jones let go of Machida was a dirty move.

Which brings me to you accusing me of lying now or then. First, it's a false premise to assume that Machida almost died. Your sense of smell sucks, because there was no death in the air. Second, just because you don't understand my ethics doesn't mean that they are contradictary. Your logic on my "lie" is a little vague. But from what I understand, you are saying that because I don't have a problem with Machida not tapping, passing out, Jones holding the sub for another couple seconds until the fight was over, and then letting him go instead trying to let him down softly; and also abide by a personal creed of an affirmative duty to help others, up to and including risking my own life to save another's (even one that calls me a liar), that I am lying? Explain to me why I am being dishonest. Explain to me why my personal code of ethics that we discussed a month ago, a code which I don't hold anyone else to but neither begrudge them if they choose to abide by, conflicts with my lack of contempt for the actions of someone who did exactly what he was supposed to under the rules that they were competing in such a way that makes me a liar. Either that or explain to me how your code of ethics allows for the baseless accusations of dishonesty to be lobbed around at people who disagree with you.


. . . And if you want this conversation to continue, do it via pm. No reason to subject the rest of the members to the ramblings that are sure to issue forth from what this continued is going to look like.

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Post #27   12/12/11 5:15:23AM   

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Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by grappler0000

The problem is that people make assumptions many times and form an uneducated opinion.



I have seen enough of Jones to formulate an educated opinion.



I was actually referring more to Lesnar when making that statement.



Who comes out and says I don't want to sign fake belts? To think it - is one thing but to come out and say it - is rather disturbing to me and it reflects what type of person he is.



We all have our hangups. I can't say that I would do the same thing, but I'm not overly concerned about that to be honest. It's not as if he won't sign any fake belt though...it's just those expensive replicas that look like the real thing. It's not as if there are hundreds of kids crying because their $10 Jakks belt didn't get signed. Very few people even own those replicas...and I'm sure even fewer really want anyone, let alone him, to sign it. We're really talking about a couple people on the planet that have probably been turned down, I'm sure. The fact so many people spend time talking about something so trivial is really my point though. If it were someone else, it would be brushed off.

Tito won't sign Tapout hats/shirts...because it's not his brand. And yes, he's turned down kids, as if they really understand the politics behind it. Matt Hughes is notorious for turning down signatures for many different reasons. And there are others. We don't talk about them though. And that's my point.

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Post #28   12/12/11 8:25:51AM   

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IN DEFENSE OF JON JONES

You know i haven't posted in a while, but this requires my attention.

First off, I am a HUGE Jones fan. I spend a lot of time in his hometown and maybe i'm biased bc everyone loves him; however, if you just handily defeated Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida... one of the best LHW around, don't you think you would be a bit preocupied?

As others have mentioned before me, Jackson was doing his job steering Jones back on track and trying to bring him back down to earth. The kid, 24 year old kid to be exact, was no doubt elated over a relatively easy and injury free victory. Give him a break.

sidenote: to all the Bones haters, i'm not being antagonistic, but is it possible you hate him BECAUSE he's so good. I understand personality plays a part, but many fighters are very cocky. The difference is that Jones really is as good as his hype suggests. Try to be open minded and evaluate his fighting, because he really does have talent and WILL be good for the sport.

All i ask is a second chance.

Post #29   12/12/11 12:03:29PM   

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Posted by ncordless



Are you serious? You are accusing me of lying!? What a jerk thing to say. Do not ever do that again.

I do maintain that there was nothing wrong with his sportsmanship. He choked Machida, Machida did not tap, ref told him to let go, he did. He played it exactly by the book. And not some bs bushido code of ethics book where you make sure the fighter falls pretty, but instead the code of rules that are designed for fighter safety and fairness. There are reasons for why the rules are the way they are. As grappler said, the refs want people to let go and get out of the way immediately upon their stoppage. You don't let the choke go when someone goes limp. If that was the rule, everyone would go limp every time they were in a choke. That is the oldest trick in the book for getting out of a sub. And when you do let go you and get away so the medics can come in. You don't hold on to him in any fashion, and if you are holding on in any fashion it is the job of the ref to tackle you and get you to let go. Holding on to Machida after the ref told him to let go would have been the wrong thing to do.

You act like Machida almost died. I repeat that if you can't handle someone getting choked unconscious and falling to the floor, you should stop watching mma, or at least learn about the relative risks of techniques. That the choke was applied for longer for a couple seconds than it took for him to lose consciousness is a very low risk in the scheme of things. When people get choked and do not tap, they go unconscious. If they do it standing up, they are going to fall to the ground, just like when they get KOed.

I could care less who you like or hate. Hating fighters is kind of stupid in my book, and hating them for what they do outside the cage, especially when it doesn't involve people getting hurt, cheating, or breaking the law like so many other fighters' who make the news for all the wrong reasons, smells of wwe and soap operas, but to each their own. I understand that there a lot of people whose favorite fighter got demolished by Jones. I also understand that some people have different ideas on how they think other people should behave, and the appropriate level of personal contempt they have when people don't behave the way they think they should But you specifically said that you felt that the way Jones let go of Machida was a dirty move.

Which brings me to you accusing me of lying now or then. First, it's a false premise to assume that Machida almost died. Your sense of smell sucks, because there was no death in the air. Second, just because you don't understand my ethics doesn't mean that they are contradictary. Your logic on my "lie" is a little vague. But from what I understand, you are saying that because I don't have a problem with Machida not tapping, passing out, Jones holding the sub for another couple seconds until the fight was over, and then letting him go instead trying to let him down softly; and also abide by a personal creed of an affirmative duty to help others, up to and including risking my own life to save another's (even one that calls me a liar), that I am lying? Explain to me why I am being dishonest. Explain to me why my personal code of ethics that we discussed a month ago, a code which I don't hold anyone else to but neither begrudge them if they choose to abide by, conflicts with my lack of contempt for the actions of someone who did exactly what he was supposed to under the rules that they were competing in such a way that makes me a liar. Either that or explain to me how your code of ethics allows for the baseless accusations of dishonesty to be lobbed around at people who disagree with you.


. . . And if you want this conversation to continue, do it via pm. No reason to subject the rest of the members to the ramblings that are sure to issue forth from what this continued is going to look like.



Really? A jerk thing to say? Hmmm?...Let me see here.

What were you thinking when you insinuated I get squeamish after seeing a fighter go limp? You just had to put that in there did you not? - And yes, I took offense to that because there was no need for you to say it unless you wanted a confrontation? Well, you got your confrontation - don't get squeamish on me now.

Had you came out and voiced your opinion in a professional manner, this conversation would have been done and over with...But no, you figure you would use this topic to redeem yourself from our last encounter.

Anyway, regarding Jones, I have no clue as to what you are debating here. You don't seem to understand no one here has said anything about Jones violating any MMA protocols.

My standard for people whom I like and will like is set high. I am sorry we do not have the same standards. Don't impose your standards on me. Again, you insinuated I am imposing my bushido code of ethics upon others. No one here is doing that.... Jon Jones simply does not meet my standard which is why he is not a favorite fighter of mine. Is that too difficult to understand?

I don't know how old you are and I really don't care but at my age, I cannot like a fighter without not liking the person behind the fighter. It's great you don't hate fighters but I seriously doubt you mean it. It is probably one of those things that are cool to say and that is why people say it. - Just like how you said you would risk your life to save mine regardless if we were friends or not. Again - it is one of those cliche things to say. - Because I can tell you first hand, the energy you will exert when saving your child and when saving me will vary tremendously. So don't come onto me like you are this saint because your posts certainly do not reflect it.

I have seen you preemptively attack members for their opinions just like you preemptively attacked me. Unlike other members, I will stand my ground. You have been rude and so have I - but in my defense, I can say I was provoked. You can't say that can you?

My opening post in this thread did not address anyone or any member. It was simply my observation and constructive criticism of Jones.

The next time you want to quote me and attack me, do understand I will not be squeamish.


Post #30   12/12/11 1:14:08PM   
 
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