Hall of fame and non titlists |
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bigrand826
MMA Regular
Career record: 393-235
Season: 21-3 (#75)
Location:
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Posted by ghandikush
Posted by Pookie
Florian would be one of those maybe cases. He challenged for a title in 2 different weight classes, and competed in 4. But what really hinders him is that he never really beat any of the best guys. Guida is probably his best win.
But i did vote yes, Non Titlists should be included in the Hall of fame discussion, and their resume/talent should do most of the arguement for their case.
And also, i don't think getting a belt automatically gurantees you a spot in the HOF
Henderson - Absolutely
Jon Fitch - Yes
Diego - No
Serra - Absolutely not
Mike Brown - Nope
Lesnar - Not even
Florian beat Joe daddy back when he wa a top contender, he beat Huerta when Huerta was one of the biggest rising stars in the sport, he beat Din Thomas when Din was making a comebac and one or two fights from a title, he beat Lauzon when Lauzon was riding a hype train undefeated in the UFC.
He ha been competing in the UFC since he was 2-2 in 05 and has since taken all those heads.
I can see that argument, but it really all depends on how you view those guys. For me, I wouldn't give him a whole lot of credit for Din Thomas, because there is no telling how that fight would have gone if Din wouldn't have blown out his knee.
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Post #16 10/12/11 8:45:33AM
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bigrand826
MMA Regular
Career record: 393-235
Season: 21-3 (#75)
Location:
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Posted by Pookie
Florian would be one of those maybe cases. He challenged for a title in 2 different weight classes, and competed in 4. But what really hinders him is that he never really beat any of the best guys. Guida is probably his best win.
But i did vote yes, Non Titlists should be included in the Hall of fame discussion, and their resume/talent should do most of the arguement for their case.
And also, i don't think getting a belt automatically gurantees you a spot in the HOF
Henderson - Absolutely
Jon Fitch - Yes
Diego - No
Serra - Absolutely not
Mike Brown - Nope
Lesnar - Not even
I tend to agree with this line of thinking. And I agree with your stance on those fighters.
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Post #17 10/12/11 8:47:51AM
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Boo_Radley21
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 573-405
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Ontario
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I think Griffin and Bonnar should both make it because both have been around since that first season of the ultimate fighter where they put the sport on the map, and while only one has won a title, it's prettty safe to say that without that fight things would be a lot different these days. Bonnar deserves it
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Post #18 10/12/11 10:12:57AM
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bigrand826
MMA Regular
Career record: 393-235
Season: 21-3 (#75)
Location:
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Posted by Kpro
I think every sport's Hall of Fame is a sham with no set rules and a legitimate popularity contest 
Debbie Downer huh?
Although, I really liked the idea that, I believe it may have been Tim Kurkjian had when speaking about the MLB Hall of Fame. That they should not just have a Hall of Fame but have a HOF with 3-4 tiers, so then Bert Blyleven and Babe Ruth aren't equivalent, but maybe both are deserving of different tiers. I like the idea but to see it take off would be another story. The UFC/MMA HOF is new enough where they could implement something like that. But it would still be a popularity contest where if you leave the UFC on bad terms even if you were dominant, you're probably not getting in.
There's some merrit to that. Maybe not exactly that implementation, but something along those lines. I think the boxing HOF has different classifications, such as contributers being separate from the actual fighters. I think this was brought up when Stalone was inducted based on his contributions based on his work in the Rocky films and the Contender. That isn't exactly what you are describing, but I think the idea can be applied.
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Post #19 10/12/11 10:20:49AM
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shogunassassin
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 244-177
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Edinburgh
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Whats wrong with you people?!
Are you all taking CRAZY pills?!!
Hall of fame should be for those who have contributed to the sport in an OUTSTANDING manner.
This will NOT include every beltholder. NOR should it include any fool who has had a good figt or two.
This WILL include pioneers, those who have stood out from the crowd, those who have been consistently tough as nails over 4 weight classes etc.
The SPECIAL ones.
Of COURSE this should include the Pride Champions.
Hendo, Wanderlei, Nogueira, Heck EVEN FEDOR is a LEgend in MMA (although he cannot be in UFC hof coz he never fought here).
The HOF must NOT include people like Florian (who wins fights by utilising the JAB, I mean c'mon). It must NOT include Joe Daddy etc.
Royce, Randy, Tito, Ken shamrock, Rush, Farmboy, Baby J, Wand, Hendo,
Rampage, The Spider,
In the future, maybe Aldo, Jones, Velasquez, depending on how their carreers turn out.
But as a rule, absolutely NO MEDIOCRITY such as Bloomin' 'man-who-Anderson-knocked-out-brutally-and smashed hisnose up whose name I ALWAYS seem to forget -Franklin - should ever get in. NEVER
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Post #20 10/12/11 10:42:15AM
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We're in Lodi, bitch!
Career record: 950-500
Season: 22-2 (#55)
Location: Fort Waste, IN
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Posted by shogunassassin
The SPECIAL ones.
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Post #21 10/12/11 10:49:26AM
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Boo_Radley21
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 573-405
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Ontario
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I diasagree that Franklin shouldn't get in. Before Silva he was the most dominant MW champ and MW fighter in general. He's a true legend
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Post #22 10/12/11 2:36:53PM
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Steady MODdin'
Career record: 1016-583
Season: 17-7 (#771)
Location: Milwaukee
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Posted by Boo_Radley21
I diasagree that Franklin shouldn't get in. Before Silva he was the most dominant MW champ and MW fighter in general. He's a true legend
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Post #23 10/12/11 2:59:40PM
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poppa_gump
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 563-320
Season: 19-5 (#379)
Location: Prince George B.C. Canada
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There seems to be a lot of Franklin talk, however I have a question if this is valid. I think Chris Lytle should get a decent look as he has contibuted enough with 10 fight bonuses, 10 wins in the UFC and a finalist in TUF. SO I did say yes non-title holders should be inducted as long as they are worthy.
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Post #24 10/12/11 10:16:38PM
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armbar66j7
Standup Guy
Career record: 166-102
Season: 9-2 (#1732)
Location: Maryland
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yea id say the fact that florians been shut down 3 times for gold kind of dimishes his value a little bit for HOF status, but still, you cant deny his consistancy, and success up until he reaches the top, almost every time, for fitch, id have to wait and see what he does in the next 2 or 3 years, if stays dominant other than gsp in his slow paced grinding style, then yes, deffinetly, but im a huge fan, and even i wonder if the right guy can stop his momentum, and im not talking GSP, who played it somewhat safe in the 07 fight, or 08, idk, i dont remember haha, but i mean someone explosive, and a better wrestler, natural wrestler, as for the pride thing, i geuss you could say that any comp[any bought out by zuffa should be put into consideration when determing the greatest fighters, then youd have to include crop cop, hendo, big nog, fedor,lil nog, wanderlei, and maybe even shogun....and and im a little yes and no about marquardt
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Post #25 10/13/11 1:11:44AM
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armbar66j7
Standup Guy
Career record: 166-102
Season: 9-2 (#1732)
Location: Maryland
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Posted by poppa_gump
There seems to be a lot of Franklin talk, however I have a question if this is valid. I think Chris Lytle should get a decent look as he has contibuted enough with 10 fight bonuses, 10 wins in the UFC and a finalist in TUF. SO I did say yes non-title holders should be inducted as long as they are worthy.
i was thinging franklin myself, but he wasnt really dominant, he beat the late evan tanner, the glass jaw of nate quarry, and then decisioned louiseau, only to start his downfall and begin his tenure as a gatekeeper, he was a beast yeah, but i wouldnt put tim sylvia or arlovski in there, and that would be pretty much the same thing, and yea lytle has all those awards, but really no great wins, until the end of his career, had maybe 3 or 4 notable wins in like 15 fights over the last 4 sumthin years
oh...my bad, he tapped out jorge rivera too, and knocked out ken shamrock...wow, thats impressive haha, almost as impressive as when machida turned out his lights, which was an awesome highlight reel, and no im not bashing, just letting yall know his time line, well when he was supposedly in his dominant era, that was it, its not that special, no more so than what arlovski did, what sylvia did, what sean sherk did, its nonsense, you need to stand out and dominate for a long time
Last edited 10/13/11 1:27AM by armbar66j7
Edit note/reason: n/a
2 total post edits
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Post #26 10/13/11 1:17:19AM
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shogunassassin
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 244-177
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Edinburgh
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Franklin should NEVER get in.
He was simply a mediocre fish in a VERY mediocre pond.
If everyone who wins a belt and has a couple of decent fights gets in, the HOF would be stuffed full of mediocrity like Franklin.
No WAY Marquart, or Bonnar.
Griffin perhaps.... only perhaps...
You gotta do more to be in the HOF.
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Post #27 10/13/11 7:13:21AM
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shogunassassin
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 244-177
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Edinburgh
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Sorry to labout the point,
but Franklin had a good run in a dry patch for the UFC.
As soon as the good fighters showed up, he crumbled and vanished.
That is not a true champion.
That is not HOf material.
He is a good fighter, and every dog has his day, but not for HOF.
For HOf you need to be GREAT.
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Post #28 10/13/11 7:26:38AM
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KungFuMaster
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 244-207
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Central California
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Hall of Famers do not have to be champions. You have a lot of good fighters who have spilled their bloods for the ufc by giving us some of the best fights.
I'd take an average fighter who has an undying heart over any Safe-Pierres.
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Post #29 10/13/11 12:47:41PM
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Boo_Radley21
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 573-405
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Ontario
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Posted by shogunassassin
Sorry to labout the point,
but Franklin had a good run in a dry patch for the UFC.
As soon as the good fighters showed up, he crumbled and vanished.
That is not a true champion.
That is not HOf material.
He is a good fighter, and every dog has his day, but not for HOF.
For HOf you need to be GREAT.
Who are these good fighters who showed up? He was forced out of his division because he lost twice to Anderson Silva. Other than that no one comes to mind that showed up and beat Franklin at middleweight. Light heavyweight is stacked and any of the top 10 could lose any given fight at least until Jones came along
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Post #30 11/14/11 10:00:30AM
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