Pick'em Leagues: THE BIG SHOW CASUAL BEST OF THE REST Single Event PvP: FANTASY POOLS Betting Leagues: THE BIG SHOW BEST OF THE REST

Hatsu Hioki Thought He Inflicted More Damage Than Clay Guida, but Not Yet Asking for Rematch

Print  
Posted By Message

FastKnockout

$ Impin' Ain't Easy $

FastKnockout Avatar
7
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:13,018
Career:1,803-1,002
Joined:Sep 2010
Camp: Project Mayhem
Chips:
1,686
One of the most hotly contested fights of UFC on Fox 6 was the bout between Clay Guida and Hatsu Hioki. Depending on who you asked, the fight could have gone either way, but was ultimately decided in favor of Guida via split decision by the evening’s judges.

Link

Post #1   1/28/13 11:28:56AM   

Twenty20Dollars

Heavyweight Champ

5




 
 
 


 
 
Posts:12,772
Career:1,572-1,001
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
1,196
Hell no, on a rematch. Give Hioki someone that is going to do something more than just dance around the entire fight.

Last edited 1/28/13 11:33AM server time by twenty20dollars
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #2   1/28/13 11:32:15AM   

Theoutlaw08

MMA Sensei

Theoutlaw08 Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,524
Career:771-549
Joined:Mar 2011
Chips:
425
The Guida fight pissed me off. I am so sick of him. Every fight he takes people down, he doesnt look to strike or to advance his position. Hioki got the raw end of the deal. He had better striking, went for subs. Sucks that because Guida had the take downs and layed on top for 9 minutes he gets a win. I was hoping Dana would cut him after another shit win like this. But Dana never holds his word. After the Maynard fight it was if Guida contiues to fight like this hes done...Here it is again.

It was the least impressive/entertaining fight on the card.

Post #3   1/28/13 11:49:25AM   

Copenhagen

Good for Body and Soul

Copenhagen Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,115
Career:1,125-610
Joined:Apr 2007
Camp: Dark Horse
Chips:
309
I gave Hioki the first 2 rounds.
It's always hilarious when 3 judges judge the fight with 3 different scores.

Post #4   1/28/13 11:55:43AM   

State_Champ

MMA Sensei

State_Champ Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,113
Career:1,474-877
Joined:Jun 2007
Camp: The Evil Empire
Chips:
437
I thought Hioki won.
Even from his back he was more offensive and threatening than Guida.
Does Guida get credit for controlling an opponent who was perfectly willing to fight effectively from his guard? Who was in control? Seemed to me that Guida was on the defensive.
The guard should be a neutral position.
Moreover, it may be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy that the guy on the bottom is always losing. After all, if having a strong guard and good submission skills is not effective for winning fights then people are probably less likely to fully realize such skill. Especially over time, the guards of fighters could be constantly underdeveloped since having a skillful guard is unappreciated by most judges. Why invest time in a skill that is not strategically useful when you could be learning something of which the judges of your occupation will actually approve?

Last edited 2/1/13 3:06PM server time by State_Champ
Edit note/reason: Wrote 'that' instead of 'than'
2 total post edits

Post #5   1/28/13 12:34:59PM   

RhythmAndStyle

MMA Sensei

RhythmAndStyle Avatar
6





 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,673
Career:2,385-1,434
Joined:Jan 2008
Camp: Project Mayhem
Chips:
171
i also thought Hioki won..i thought they changed the scoring system to imply sub. attempts and sweeps..cuz Hioki def did more then Guida did and those TD's wasnt enough to win the match..not with the new rules in place..

Post #6   1/28/13 2:51:58PM   

george112

The Playground OG

george112 Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:5,360
Career:1,243-813
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Playground Legends
Chips:
1,057
Guida has and always will be a decision fighter. Sure he has had a few finishes but when was the last time you heard someone say "damn! That clay guida fight was fucking awesome!!"??

_______________________________________
Ron Paul 2016

Post #7   1/28/13 3:01:51PM   

jaguar_paw

Learning to Sprawl

jaguar_paw Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:29
Career:2,203-1,595
Joined:Dec 2007
Chips:
9
Looks like I agree with most on here.
I think judges put way too much emphasis on takedowns and too less of emphasis on damage.

Post #8   1/28/13 3:41:26PM   

FlashyG

Heavyweight Champ

FlashyG Avatar
11
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,165
Career:2,292-1,292
Joined:Feb 2008
Camp: Project Mayhem
Chips:
948

Posted by RhythmAndStyle

i also thought Hioki won..i thought they changed the scoring system to imply sub. attempts and sweeps..cuz Hioki def did more then Guida did and those TD's wasnt enough to win the match..not with the new rules in place..



The new changes to the rules did start to put more value on effective grappling but that isn't just sub and sweep attempts, that's also where takedowns and guard passes are scored. Slam takedowns are also valued more than regular takedowns so Guida scored major points in the 2nd with the slam, and had as many guard passes as Hioki had submission attempts.(1)

He was outstriking Guida but its hard to award the decision to him based on striking when far more than half of the fight was on the mat.

I'm not saying I agree with how the fights are scored, but based on the current rules the decision was probably correct....Which means that further changes are probably necessary to the scoring system.

_______________________________________
Very easily to trick - Josh Koscheck

Post #9   1/28/13 3:53:41PM   

Manak

Belt Contender

Manak Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:957
Career:164-106
Joined:Jun 2007
Camp: UFC-PRIDE-MMA
Chips:
178

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by RhythmAndStyle

i also thought Hioki won..i thought they changed the scoring system to imply sub. attempts and sweeps..cuz Hioki def did more then Guida did and those TD's wasnt enough to win the match..not with the new rules in place..



The new changes to the rules did start to put more value on effective grappling but that isn't just sub and sweep attempts, that's also where takedowns and guard passes are scored. Slam takedowns are also valued more than regular takedowns so Guida scored major points in the 2nd with the slam, and had as many guard passes as Hioki had submission attempts.(1)

He was outstriking Guida but its hard to award the decision to him based on striking when far more than half of the fight was on the mat.

I'm not saying I agree with how the fights are scored, but based on the current rules the decision was probably correct....Which means that further changes are probably necessary to the scoring system.



hioki had way more then sub attempts then 1... he was looking to sweep and sub every time while guida just looked to lay there. I

need to re-watch for this point: but seemed like hioki threw more punches on the ground off his back then guida threw from top position.

it sux that a guy attacking the whole fight but since he is in a "defensive" position loses to a guy doing absolutely nothing outside moving his hair from side to side.

Post #10   1/28/13 7:53:23PM   

postman

Heavyweight Champ

postman Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:6,314
Career:746-420
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
1,055
Fight metric has it 41 26 for hioki in the total strikes landed. 3 takedowns for guida. 1 sub attempt for hioki. 1 pass for guida. I have always said guida is a boring fighter who wins by thrashing his hair around. He was getting better for a bit but he seems to be brining it back

Post #11   1/28/13 8:14:28PM   

FlashyG

Heavyweight Champ

FlashyG Avatar
11
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,165
Career:2,292-1,292
Joined:Feb 2008
Camp: Project Mayhem
Chips:
948

Posted by Manak
hioki had way more then sub attempts then 1... he was looking to sweep and sub every time while guida just looked to lay there. I

need to re-watch for this point: but seemed like hioki threw more punches on the ground off his back then guida threw from top position.

it sux that a guy attacking the whole fight but since he is in a "defensive" position loses to a guy doing absolutely nothing outside moving his hair from side to side.



I thought Hioki went for more than 1 as well, but I didn't count them and the official stats say he attempted only 1.

Hioki definitely threw more punches off his back than Guida did from the top, but another of the changes to the rules was that the relative damage of the punches effects how they are scored.

A punch from your back is probably the lowest scoring strike you could possibly throw and with the current MMA scoring criteria its all but impossible to win a fight by striking from your back.

_______________________________________
Very easily to trick - Josh Koscheck

Post #12   1/28/13 8:52:45PM   

bootyclause

MMA Regular

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:205
Career:1,044-777
Joined:Jul 2007
Chips:
40
I thought Hioki won 2-1, maybe 3-0 but it was basically a draw in reality.


People hate on Guida's style but I don't feel sorry for Hioki at all. His style leads to losing decisions. The bottom line is that this guy was supposed to be this lock top 5 FW and is just another underachieving free agent signing.

Hioki has no one to blame but himself.

Post #13   1/28/13 10:00:51PM   

Chael_Sonnen

Follow.The.Buzzards

Chael_Sonnen Avatar
6





 
 
 


 
 
Posts:5,009
Career:1,277-785
Joined:May 2010
Chips:
1,409
I had Clay winning..........for BEST porn stache.......word on teh mean streets of West Linn is that Jenna J. LOVED it!!!!

_______________________________________
Mr. Playground
• 2010 - 2016 •

Post #14   1/28/13 11:31:19PM   

tcunningham

Combat Sport and Fitness

tcunningham Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,286
Career:508-351
Joined:Sep 2009
Chips:
645
if the judges would have given it to hioki i wouldnt have been too surprised because he was definitely more active from the bottom, but clay i think clearly won the fight with those TD's. we all know that unless there is a submission, the stupid judges will always give the guy on top the points.

_______________________________________

Post #15   1/28/13 11:59:15PM