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The Association Of Boxing Commissions Makes Significant Changes To The Unified Rules Of MMA

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grappler0000

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Last year, BE's Dallas Winston covered the annual Association of Boxing Commission (ABC) annual conference. For MMA fans, the most impactful ruling to come out of the 2011 conference was the trial period for Doc Hamilton's proposed Half-Point Scoring System from the 2010 meetings. This year, however, the ABC has made several decisions with direct effects on mixed martial arts.

First, the death of the half-point system. After the year-long, voluntary evaluation period granted to the half-point system, the ABC concluded that the system had negligible impact on scoring the outcome of an MMA bout...

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Post #1   7/18/12 1:50:07PM   

airkerma

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Seems like mostly good changes, but "good defense is it's own reward" is about the biggest possible cop out to addressing an issue. I'm primarily considering TDD which isn't highlighted as far as I can understand in "effective grappling" as it is not a "take down, reverse, or submission". In other words, Kampmann still loses to Sanchez despite the 1:16 success to attempt ratio for the take downs (or whatever it was). Saying good defense is it's own reward just doesn't cut it when half of the fight is being spent working for/against take downs that don't come to fruition. Overall, it seems like an improvement though.

Last edited 7/18/12 2:18PM server time by airkerma
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Post #2   7/18/12 2:13:41PM   

telnights

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There are some really good changes in this. Now if they can get the judges to use these changes.

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Post #3   7/18/12 2:19:59PM   

bojangalz

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Posted by airkerma

Seems like mostly good changes, but "good defense is it's own reward" is about the biggest possible cop out to addressing an issue. I'm primarily considering TDD which isn't highlighted as far as I can understand in "effective grappling" as it is not a "take down, reverse, or submission". In other words, Kampmann still loses to Sanchez despite the 1:16 success to attempt ratio for the take downs (or whatever it was). Saying good defense is it's own reward just doesn't cut it when half of the fight is being spent working for/against take downs that don't come to fruition. Overall, it seems like an improvement though.



Agreed... I think it's exasperated by the fact that they did a piss poor job of defining "effective aggression".

moving forward scoring with a legal technique or attacking from the guard with threatening submissions.


So that's all you can do to be effectively aggressive is move forward and land or strikes from the guard, really!?



But I think we're missing the whole point here anyway... A large portion of the judges in place right now couldn't get the last scoring criteria right after nearly 15 of unified regulation. Something tells me that we won't see any of this stuff alter a score card in a meaningful way for a long, long time.

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Post #4   7/18/12 2:39:07PM   

ghandikush

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Posted by bojangalz


Posted by airkerma

Seems like mostly good changes, but "good defense is it's own reward" is about the biggest possible cop out to addressing an issue. I'm primarily considering TDD which isn't highlighted as far as I can understand in "effective grappling" as it is not a "take down, reverse, or submission". In other words, Kampmann still loses to Sanchez despite the 1:16 success to attempt ratio for the take downs (or whatever it was). Saying good defense is it's own reward just doesn't cut it when half of the fight is being spent working for/against take downs that don't come to fruition. Overall, it seems like an improvement though.



Agreed... I think it's exasperated by the fact that they did a piss poor job of defining "effective aggression".

moving forward scoring with a legal technique or attacking from the guard with threatening submissions.


So that's all you can do to be effectively aggressive is move forward and land or strikes from the guard, really!?



But I think we're missing the whole point here anyway... A large portion of the judges in place right now couldn't get the last scoring criteria right after nearly 15 of unified regulation. Something tells me that we won't see any of this stuff alter a score card in a meaningful way for a long, long time.



we need a bunch of retired fighters scoring. A Couture or Kenflo would score a fight much better than a Byrd (boxing family)

Post #5   7/18/12 2:47:32PM   

Twenty20Dollars

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Posted by bojangalz

Agreed... I think it's exasperated by the fact that they did a piss poor job of defining "effective aggression".

moving forward scoring with a legal technique or attacking from the guard with threatening submissions.


So that's all you can do to be effectively aggressive is move forward and land or strikes from the guard, really!?



Is that just for top guard? What about landing strikes from bottom guard or ones that open up a cut or submissions from bottom guard? Or landing striking while you're against the cage and other guy is doing nothing?

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Posted by ghandikush

we need a bunch of retired fighters scoring. A Couture or Kenflo would score a fight much better than a Byrd (boxing family)



But, could run in biased things there, with former fighters and Couture being a coach.

Post #6   7/18/12 3:12:13PM   

ghandikush

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Posted by Twenty20Dollars


Posted by bojangalz

Agreed... I think it's exasperated by the fact that they did a piss poor job of defining "effective aggression".

moving forward scoring with a legal technique or attacking from the guard with threatening submissions.


So that's all you can do to be effectively aggressive is move forward and land or strikes from the guard, really!?



Is that just for top guard? What about landing strikes from bottom guard or ones that open up a cut or submissions from bottom guard? Or landing striking while you're against the cage and other guy is doing nothing?

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Posted by ghandikush

we need a bunch of retired fighters scoring. A Couture or Kenflo would score a fight much better than a Byrd (boxing family)



But, could run in biased things there, with former fighters and Couture being a coach.



sucks doesnt it

Post #7   7/18/12 3:18:34PM   

BlueSkiesBurn

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Posted by ghandikush

we need a bunch of retired fighters scoring. A Couture or Kenflo would score a fight much better than a Byrd (boxing family)



Excellent point. Adalaide Byrd is an absolute joke and there's pretty strong evidence that she may even be biased, but that's a story for another day.

Retired fighters going the route of Mahood & Almeida is the best thing for the sport.

Post #8   7/18/12 3:19:19PM   

scoozna

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I wasn't sure how to interpret the comment about grappling being weighted equally with striking.

They prefaced it with:

The old scoring system rewarded striking (as a primary consideration) more than grappling. Mixed Martial Arts is based on two skill sets - striking and grappling. The committee felt that grappling should not be a secondary factor in determining the outcome of a match.


I really never got the impression that they considered grappling a "secondary factor" compared to striking, quite the opposite.

But overall, these are very positive changes.

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Post #9   7/18/12 4:00:20PM   

tepid55

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I don't think this will help much.

Post #10   7/18/12 4:14:02PM   

lll-lll

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Just sounds like adding to the quigmire to me. Taking out damage is stupid IMO. Sounds like an excuse for more decisions and lay n pray.We will see I guess.


The other problem, which has always been the biggest problem in MMA judging for years is sub attempts. What sub attempt scores and what doesnt? IMO the ONLY sub atts. that should be scored heavily is one where the round ends before the tap or where a guy is stuck in for a long period of time and wears down fighting it off. I know they are trying to score these better, but it sounds to me like a chance for someone to win by laying on his back tossing triangles up. In which case fans would be out raged.


Making stand up and ground striking equal shouldnt be appauled, because this should have always been the case. If anyone was scoring it differently they are retarded, I dont care if its rules or not. This sport has ALWAYS been about both equally.

Post #11   7/18/12 4:23:50PM   

lll-lll

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Posted by Twenty20Dollars


Posted by bojangalz

Agreed... I think it's exasperated by the fact that they did a piss poor job of defining "effective aggression".

moving forward scoring with a legal technique or attacking from the guard with threatening submissions.


So that's all you can do to be effectively aggressive is move forward and land or strikes from the guard, really!?



Is that just for top guard? What about landing strikes from bottom guard or ones that open up a cut or submissions from bottom guard? Or landing striking while you're against the cage and other guy is doing nothing?

-------------------------------------------------------


Posted by ghandikush

we need a bunch of retired fighters scoring. A Couture or Kenflo would score a fight much better than a Byrd (boxing family)



But, could run in biased things there, with former fighters and Couture being a coach.




This is illogical. Big John, Herb, and many others are refs and some judges who have trained or had ties to MMA for years. There is going to be the chance for corruption in anything they try, but that doesnt mean that they do not do their jobs properly. Landless fought and Herb fougth I do believe. I have seen nothing to suggest either didnt do his job properly based on ties to anyone. If they go through the proper training and pass proper criteria, I think Id rather see them than some lady who gets in cause her faimly has ties to boxing.

Last edited 7/18/12 4:32PM server time by lll-lll
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Post #12   7/18/12 4:31:42PM   

FlashyG

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Posted by ghandikush


we need a bunch of retired fighters scoring. A Couture or Kenflo would score a fight much better than a Byrd (boxing family)



Florian can't even hide his biases as a commentator. I don't want him anywhere near the judges table.

I think getting rid of boxing judges is a good start, but I disagree with the notion that being a former fighter makes you a better judge. In some cases former fighters would make great judges, in others they'd be just as terrible as Byrd.

I think the sport needs to first clear up some of the grey areas in the scoring criteria, then train their judges, former fighters or not, to use the criteria properly.

Post #13   7/18/12 5:11:39PM   

pmoney

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I like some of the changes, and I don't like others.

#1 - Takedown Defense is effective grappling, and should be stated as such. If you stop someone from doing what they want to do, you are imposing your will and controlling the fight. Simple as that. If you are going to award "attempts" as being effectively aggressive, TDD should be scored favorably as well. Successful takedown defense accomplishes something, the person sprawling keeps control of the fight and takes the contest where they want. Takedown "attempts" aren't necessarily successful, hence the word attempt. If it were successful, it would just be a takedown. If you don't complete your takedown, that is a failed attempt that shouldn't be rewarded. It isn't effective grappling or aggression failing to take someone down.

#2 - I do like the language that says striking or attempting subs from guard can be effective and should be scored thusly. However, it was pointed out that the language doesn't specifically say the person in guard or the person maintaining guard. This is an issue, and just more scoring issues left open to interpretation.

I'm pretty frustrated by this, "one step forward, two steps back" BS.

Post #14   7/18/12 5:16:36PM   

prophecy033

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Like $ said, some are good changes while others aren't. But at least I see effort. That's all I really want.

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Post #15   7/18/12 5:37:59PM   
 
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