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I recently had a debate with one of my friends about why the sport of MMA is so dominated by Muay Thai/BJJ/Wrestling/Kick Boxing and not other styles such as Kung-Fu. The reason I mention Kung-Fu is because that is what Bruce Lee talked about as being the best style. My friend is a Bruce Lee fan so I can see why he thinks like he does when he says that Kung Fu fighters are the best and think they are too good to fight in MMA.
I am not a martial artist myself just a rabid fan of MMA so I can't speak intricately about the styles. Personally I believe that styles like Kung-Fu are good if you are fighting someone else that is a Kung-Fu fighter and i believe its good for movie action. In a real fight where people can just charge you and take you down I don't see how its the best anymore. But like I said I'm no expert so this is why I'm posting this. I'd like to know from some other fans or people involved which opinion here is right or if it's something else?
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Post #1 2/27/08 12:05:11PM
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If you look at the chronology and emphasis of what Bruce Lee wrote and said you'll find that he became disenchanted with Kung Fu and developed his own martial arts philosophy of Jeet Kune Do which can be interepreted as "no style" or a hybrid style that is a precursor to modern MMA.
Kung Fu is one of the oldest martial arts and one of the ones that is most identifable with a particular culture (Chinese culture). Because of that it has a lot of history and importance within that society and within the history of other martial arts but on the downside it doesn't have the type of contact competition or even contact sparring in most cases that you get with almost any other martial art. I think the midset of most people who train Kung Fu isn't the same as those who want to compete in MMA and both the techniques and the conditioning you would learn in a traditional Kung Fu school have a limited overlap with what you would need to be successful in MMA.
There have been a few Kung Fu and Wing Chun practicioners in MMA, though. Jason Delucia is one that comes to mind right away. But for those who were successful, they needed to supplement their training.
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Post #2 2/27/08 12:29:30PM
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What I'm really getting at with this whole thing is, if someone just walked up to you and started fighting with you in an anything goes fight and you have to defend yourself, would it be better to know the styles in MMA today or better to know styles such has the style invented by Bruce Lee as you stated or something like Kung-Fu?
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Post #3 2/27/08 12:35:26PM
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In a street fight anything goes.So their are things you can take from almost any style to apply to such a fight.You'll actualy find Lee's Jet Kune Do philosophy actualy employed street fighting tactics such as biting,pulling hair,etc.
I mean any art can help you in a street fight if you can apply it properly,but it also depends on the situation.BJJ could save your life in a street fight,but if your stuck fighting multiple opponents I wouldn't rely on it.
Some styles I would rely on more than others.I'll take Muay Thai in a street fight over traditional Kung Fu or TKD any day.
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Post #4 2/27/08 12:57:06PM
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gsquat
MMA Sensei
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Posted by fullerene
If you look at the chronology and emphasis of what Bruce Lee wrote and said you'll find that he became disenchanted with Kung Fu and developed his own martial arts philosophy of Jeet Kune Do which can be interepreted as "no style" or a hybrid style that is a precursor to modern MMA.
Kung Fu is one of the oldest martial arts and one of the ones that is most identifable with a particular culture (Chinese culture). Because of that it has a lot of history and importance within that society and within the history of other martial arts but on the downside it doesn't have the type of contact competition or even contact sparring in most cases that you get with almost any other martial art. I think the midset of most people who train Kung Fu isn't the same as those who want to compete in MMA and both the techniques and the conditioning you would learn in a traditional Kung Fu school have a limited overlap with what you would need to be successful in MMA.
There have been a few Kung Fu and Wing Chun practicioners in MMA, though. Jason Delucia is one that comes to mind right away. But for those who were successful, they needed to supplement their training.
I believe Tim Boetsch says he practices Jeet Kune Do. But yes, Kung Fu would be much more effective if we had superhuman senses. Its near impossible to impliment the things it teaches in an actual fight. Fights are often scrappy and go to the ground, which in and of its self renders Kung Fu useless. MMA has been a superb proving ground for the superior forms of martial arts (Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, Judo...). Kung Fu works great... in Mortal Kombat.
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Post #5 2/27/08 2:04:17PM
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Cung Le was a San Shou competitor, I believe.
Anyway, I think the answer to the question, broadly, is that it's a cultural thing. There just aren't many Chinese in MMA. Muay Thai is considered a pillar of contemporary MMA, but how many Thai fighters are there? None, that I can think of. The success of Muay Thai in MMA, just like Jiu-Jitsu, is largely attributable to the Brazilians who pioneered MMA. It's still a very young sport, and it doesn't have a global profile yet.
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Post #6 2/27/08 3:04:10PM
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Posted by gsquat
I believe Tim Boetsch says he practices Jeet Kune Do.
Jeet Kune Do is not a martial art, it's a philosophy.
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Post #7 2/27/08 3:10:09PM
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I would say that in a real street fight the ones who train min effort max effect martial arts would come out on top. Choi Kwang Do for instance. They teach that to the American Special Forces. I think you have to say that the fighting skills taught to the SAS and Navy Seals have to be most effective or else they would train in something else. The difference being is that these fighting styles are designed to disable or kill people. Not KO or submit people.
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Post #8 2/27/08 3:38:18PM
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Posted by Red-Dragon
I would say that in a real street fight the ones who train min effort max effect martial arts would come out on top. Choi Kwang Do for instance. They teach that to the American Special Forces. I think you have to say that the fighting skills taught to the SAS and Navy Seals have to be most effective or else they would train in something else. The difference being is that these fighting styles are designed to disable or kill people. Not KO or submit people.
That's a really good point. Don't they teach them more than Choi Kwang Do though? I would think they'd take the quickest and most effective moves they could find no matter where it came from.
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Post #9 2/27/08 4:23:03PM
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im a black belt in kung fu san soo
kung fu is great for the street, we hit the eyes, throat,groin, knees... and so on, know im a mma fighter to and when you get rules and gloves there are tons you cant do in the cage
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Post #10 2/27/08 4:25:29PM
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g_t_12
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"Your kung-fu is no good here"
Sorry...
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Post #11 2/27/08 9:56:38PM
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Jackelope
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I've seen a couple pretty naive posts. Even from those who would like to think they know what they're talking about.
I've practiced Kung fu for several years, and just last year stopped practicing.
Certain styles of Kung fu DEFINITELY have realistic combat scenarios/practices within them. Anyone who thinks they don't physically implement the moves on each other in Kung fu is just dead wrong. Yes, Army Special Forces does train some Kung fu techniques (as well as techniques from many other styles including MT and BJJ) and this i would know because being an Army man myself, I was trained by Army Special Forces guys in these disciplines.
Anyway, the reason as to why Kung fu wouldn't work in the Octagon is because most Kung Fu styles incorporate blocks and strikes that are designed to be implemented without cumbersome gloves on the hands. Most kung fu styles are quite friendly with being in very close quarters striking it out, and with MMA nowadays you have guys that once they get into tight quarters they can put you in a greco clinch or toss you with a judo throw. The counters to these things as taught by Kung fu styles is usually something that involves a nut shot, small joint manipulation, eye poke, throat shot, etc. The techniques are definitely useful, however they are not legal in the Octagon.
Yes, Bruce Lee became disenchanted with the SYSTEM of Kung fu. He was not, however, disenchanted with the strikes and blocks that Kung fu incorporated. Which is why he continued to teach his students traditional Kung fu strikes and blocks, like the ever famous "chain punch" that he was very happy to use. That, the footwork, the use of the side kick to create space, and the inside leg check vs. a kick are all things he used very often.
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Post #12 2/28/08 1:18:19AM
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Posted by imanidiot777
Posted by Red-Dragon
I would say that in a real street fight the ones who train min effort max effect martial arts would come out on top. Choi Kwang Do for instance. They teach that to the American Special Forces. I think you have to say that the fighting skills taught to the SAS and Navy Seals have to be most effective or else they would train in something else. The difference being is that these fighting styles are designed to disable or kill people. Not KO or submit people.
That's a really good point. Don't they teach them more than Choi Kwang Do though? I would think they'd take the quickest and most effective moves they could find no matter where it came from.
Yeah they teach all the best bits of everything. The Rangers were also instructed on Choi Kwang Do by master Choi. (let it be noted that I am not trying to say I am an expert and I dont practice Choi Kwang Do myself)
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Post #13 2/28/08 8:31:57AM
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because JOE-SON-DO rules ...haha just kidding (funny for people that know who that is)
if someone trained kung-fu that wouldn't help them in mma they would still have to train boxing or muay tai , and still train jj or wrestling. so why waste time with kung fu probly the reason
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Post #14 2/28/08 11:38:07PM
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Jackelope pretty much hit the nail on the head.
...but on a side note, ive seen some wing chun guys seriously own Muay Thai practitioners in fights before.
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Post #15 2/28/08 11:53:19PM
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