Zuffa's shady business and possible need for a Union
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Zuffa's shady business and possible need for a Union
4u2nv
11/20/08 9:53:27AM
This is how Zuffa and the UFC does business. Here is what is causing all the drama. It makes me sick. if someone can findout an email addres where we cn all sound off and tell the UFC how ****** up thir business pracices are, please post it and we can all send them an email stating our disgust!
http://www.tapoutlive.com/images/mags/ufc_legal.pdf
http://www.tapoutlive.com/images/mags/ufc_legal.pdf
bojangalz
11/20/08 11:08:02AM
Wow. i didn't have nearly enough time to read the entire .pdf, but it certainly looks like a pretty one-sided deal. I know that Zuffa have always wanted to market the UFC with the same business model as WWE. It's very brand-oriented. I'd imagine that somewhere along the line professional wrestlers signed very similar licensing agreements.
It's early yet in this process yet. And I'm sure there is a wealth of information that we have not been exposed to regarding this matter. We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes down. Given what is out there so far; it sure feels like the sky is falling though...
It's early yet in this process yet. And I'm sure there is a wealth of information that we have not been exposed to regarding this matter. We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes down. Given what is out there so far; it sure feels like the sky is falling though...
haggiswashere
11/20/08 11:09:54AM
they should get a union. 
DCRage
11/20/08 11:10:25AM
It's just TapouT doing cut-and-paste of an article from their magazine. Suggests their legal department may be gearing up for a fight.
stock
11/20/08 11:26:20AM
Unions 
I don't really see the big deal.
There are terms in a standard contract.
People don't like the terms.
They have the right to not sign them.
Done.
I don't really see the big deal.
There are terms in a standard contract.
People don't like the terms.
They have the right to not sign them.
Done.
Darnok
11/20/08 12:21:09PM
Kinda sounds like this guy might be a lawyer for Affliction and is stirring the waters.
juanez13
11/20/08 12:22:22PM
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
haggiswashere
11/20/08 12:53:04PM
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
telnights
11/20/08 1:04:51PM
This isn't news its just you ranting.
Manfred
11/20/08 1:06:39PM
Rather than a formal union, they just need to band together and refuse these kinds of agreements.
Five years ago, I really believe they were building the sport but now they are just trying to build their brand, and they are using profits that could / should go to fighters to do it.
Five years ago, I really believe they were building the sport but now they are just trying to build their brand, and they are using profits that could / should go to fighters to do it.
DCRage
11/20/08 1:16:19PM
Posted by telnights
This isn't news its just you ranting.
I must've missed that the first time, it's just been that kind of day. This will be moved to The Padded Room shortly.
stock
11/20/08 3:15:43PM
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
zephead
11/20/08 5:01:58PM
Posted by stock
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
Ask the CEO's of said automakers who rested on their laurels and continued for years putting out junk cars and big old SUV's. Now there parking lots are full of Expedetions, Hummers, Durango's, gas guzzlers and all the other junk they put out.
They thought Americans would continue to buy a new car every 3 years so they put out junk and now that people are keeping cars for 7 and 8 years, they aren't passing muster
MuSh
11/20/08 5:02:34PM
jon fitch refused to sign this contract and was cut from the UFC roster. fitch being 8-1 in UFC only loss to GSP and they cut him cuz he wouldnt sign a contract that had nothing to do with fighting. its BS if ya ask me but unfortunately dana isnt going to call me to ask me my opinion.
haggiswashere
11/20/08 5:06:10PM
Posted by zephead
Posted by stock
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
Ask the CEO's of said automakers who rested on their laurels and continued for years putting out junk cars and big old SUV's. Now there parking lots are full of Expedetions, Hummers, Durango's, gas guzzlers and all the other junk they put out.
They thought Americans would continue to buy a new car every 3 years so they put out junk and now that people are keeping cars for 7 and 8 years, they aren't passing muster
and them taking the ceo's of the company taking each of their own private jets
to beg money to bail them out. they did it to themselves.
Kracker_Jap
11/20/08 5:14:08PM
Posted by zephead
Posted by stock
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
Ask the CEO's of said automakers who rested on their laurels and continued for years putting out junk cars and big old SUV's. Now there parking lots are full of Expedetions, Hummers, Durango's, gas guzzlers and all the other junk they put out.
They thought Americans would continue to buy a new car every 3 years so they put out junk and now that people are keeping cars for 7 and 8 years, they aren't passing muster
HippiesYour right, the market didn't have any role in the SUV"S popularity it was pushed on us by evil CEO"s
All the house wives out there actually loved station wagons and Ford Aerostars
zephead
11/20/08 6:27:43PM
Posted by Kracker_Jap
Posted by zephead
Posted by stock
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
Ask the CEO's of said automakers who rested on their laurels and continued for years putting out junk cars and big old SUV's. Now there parking lots are full of Expedetions, Hummers, Durango's, gas guzzlers and all the other junk they put out.
They thought Americans would continue to buy a new car every 3 years so they put out junk and now that people are keeping cars for 7 and 8 years, they aren't passing muster
Your right, the market didn't have any role in the SUV"S popularity it was pushed on us by evil CEO"s
All the house wives out there actually loved station wagons and Ford Aerostars
And now Detroit is in all kinds of trouble because of the Unions.
Detroit turned a blind eye to what was going on. Toyota and the rest continued to put out quality cars, gas saving cars and we continued to put out junk. Damn Union.
The writing was on the wall. GM, Ford and Chrsler were not prepared for what happened with gas prices and the economy. Toyoata and Honds didn't have to worry about gas prices. They put out dependable cars. Now Detriot is going hat in hand while flying private jets to beg for taxpayer money. Bail us out so we can screw the pooch again. All 3 companies need to be restructured with forward thiinking people at the helm.
roadking95th
11/20/08 7:00:09PM
Posted by zephead
Posted by Kracker_Jap
Posted by zephead
Posted by stock
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
Ask the CEO's of said automakers who rested on their laurels and continued for years putting out junk cars and big old SUV's. Now there parking lots are full of Expedetions, Hummers, Durango's, gas guzzlers and all the other junk they put out.
They thought Americans would continue to buy a new car every 3 years so they put out junk and now that people are keeping cars for 7 and 8 years, they aren't passing muster
Your right, the market didn't have any role in the SUV"S popularity it was pushed on us by evil CEO"s
All the house wives out there actually loved station wagons and Ford Aerostars
And now Detroit is in all kinds of trouble because of the Unions.
Detroit turned a blind eye to what was going on. Toyota and the rest continued to put out quality cars, gas saving cars and we continued to put out junk. Damn Union.
The writing was on the wall. GM, Ford and Chrsler were not prepared for what happened with gas prices and the economy. Toyoata and Honds didn't have to worry about gas prices. They put out dependable cars. Now Detriot is going hat in hand while flying private jets to beg for taxpayer money. Bail us out so we can screw the pooch again. All 3 companies need to be restructured with forward thiinking people at the helm.
So what do the U.S. Honda and Toyota workers get paid? Not nearly what the Big three automakers get paid. It gets to the point where the union destroys the company. They are parasitic, just like a company who has a monopoly is. If everyone working is union, it makes it hard to just fire them all, when we are talking tens of thousands. Heck, they want a law that says a company has 30 or 90 days to negotiate with the union. If their is no new agreement, there is then MANDATORY arbitration that MUST be accepted. Shit, try coming into my company and telling me what I have to do!
Look what the union at Catepillar in York did. It was cheaper for the company to pack up and build a new plant in the MidWest. But that was only after losing millions and from long work stoppages. They said if they ever wanted to survive, as a company, they had to get rid of the present union. I personally know a lot of formal union workers from there and they are very bitter towards the union.
"Detroit is in nose dive, no doubt about that. So is a $50 billion government bailout the answer? President-elect Barack Obama thinks so, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi points in the same direction with her call for extending 'emergency and limited financial assistance' under the $700 billion bailout plan enacted last month. Democrats clearly want something big and something soon for the Big Three. We agree that the automakers can't go on much longer burning cash and piling up an Everest of debt. They're close to the breaking point. But there's a system in place for dealing with crises such as this, even at the scale of massive corporations. It's called bankruptcy, and it should not be written off as unthinkable. Filing for Chapter 11 protection under bankruptcy law is the normal way a company stays in business when facing an unmanageable financial situation. It keeps creditors at bay while the company reorganizes under court supervision and settles its debts. In recent years it has served as a refuge for major airlines (Delta and United) which, you may notice, continued to fly while in Chapter 11 and, post-bankruptcy, fly today. Bankruptcy protection also frees companies from union contracts. Could this be why it seems to have been taken off the table as an option, at least among Democrats? We can only surmise, but it's clear that a bankruptcy process would be rough going for the United Auto Workers." --Investor's Business Daily
"[W]e already have too much union-busting and too much [inaudible] for the [inaudible] worker in this country for us to now say by the way, if you're a company and you haven't been able to totally get rid of the unions, then go bankrupt and rewrite, write down the contracts." --Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) on why GM can't go bankrupt
"The United Auto Workers said Saturday they won't make any concessions on wages or benefits to help the Big Three. First things first. Investors are just starting to realize that General Motors is a health care provider that makes cars on the side." --comedian Argus Hamilton
sorry I hijacked the post, but I kept finding these
stock
11/21/08 9:20:55AM
Posted by roadking95th
Posted by zephead
Posted by Kracker_Jap
Posted by zephead
Posted by stock
Posted by haggiswashere
Posted by juanez13
Posted by haggiswashere
they should get a union.
A union might very well be the downfall for MMA.
how so?
Ask the US auto makers.
Ask the CEO's of said automakers who rested on their laurels and continued for years putting out junk cars and big old SUV's. Now there parking lots are full of Expedetions, Hummers, Durango's, gas guzzlers and all the other junk they put out.
They thought Americans would continue to buy a new car every 3 years so they put out junk and now that people are keeping cars for 7 and 8 years, they aren't passing muster
Your right, the market didn't have any role in the SUV"S popularity it was pushed on us by evil CEO"s
All the house wives out there actually loved station wagons and Ford Aerostars
And now Detroit is in all kinds of trouble because of the Unions.
Detroit turned a blind eye to what was going on. Toyota and the rest continued to put out quality cars, gas saving cars and we continued to put out junk. Damn Union.
The writing was on the wall. GM, Ford and Chrsler were not prepared for what happened with gas prices and the economy. Toyoata and Honds didn't have to worry about gas prices. They put out dependable cars. Now Detriot is going hat in hand while flying private jets to beg for taxpayer money. Bail us out so we can screw the pooch again. All 3 companies need to be restructured with forward thiinking people at the helm.
So what do the U.S. Honda and Toyota workers get paid? Not nearly what the Big three automakers get paid. It gets to the point where the union destroys the company. They are parasitic, just like a company who has a monopoly is. If everyone working is union, it makes it hard to just fire them all, when we are talking tens of thousands. Heck, they want a law that says a company has 30 or 90 days to negotiate with the union. If their is no new agreement, there is then MANDATORY arbitration that MUST be accepted. Shit, try coming into my company and telling me what I have to do!
Look what the union at Catepillar in York did. It was cheaper for the company to pack up and build a new plant in the MidWest. But that was only after losing millions and from long work stoppages. They said if they ever wanted to survive, as a company, they had to get rid of the present union. I personally know a lot of formal union workers from there and they are very bitter towards the union.
"Detroit is in nose dive, no doubt about that. So is a $50 billion government bailout the answer? President-elect Barack Obama thinks so, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi points in the same direction with her call for extending 'emergency and limited financial assistance' under the $700 billion bailout plan enacted last month. Democrats clearly want something big and something soon for the Big Three. We agree that the automakers can't go on much longer burning cash and piling up an Everest of debt. They're close to the breaking point. But there's a system in place for dealing with crises such as this, even at the scale of massive corporations. It's called bankruptcy, and it should not be written off as unthinkable. Filing for Chapter 11 protection under bankruptcy law is the normal way a company stays in business when facing an unmanageable financial situation. It keeps creditors at bay while the company reorganizes under court supervision and settles its debts. In recent years it has served as a refuge for major airlines (Delta and United) which, you may notice, continued to fly while in Chapter 11 and, post-bankruptcy, fly today. Bankruptcy protection also frees companies from union contracts. Could this be why it seems to have been taken off the table as an option, at least among Democrats? We can only surmise, but it's clear that a bankruptcy process would be rough going for the United Auto Workers." --Investor's Business Daily
"[W]e already have too much union-busting and too much [inaudible] for the [inaudible] worker in this country for us to now say by the way, if you're a company and you haven't been able to totally get rid of the unions, then go bankrupt and rewrite, write down the contracts." --Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) on why GM can't go bankrupt
"The United Auto Workers said Saturday they won't make any concessions on wages or benefits to help the Big Three. First things first. Investors are just starting to realize that General Motors is a health care provider that makes cars on the side." --comedian Argus Hamilton
sorry I hijacked the post, but I kept finding these
Well written.
I am clearly against unions and don't feel they have been necessary for the last 50 years.
The big problem with the US auto makers unions is that they have pretty much hand strung innovation. GM pays almost 3 times more in benefits than they do on steel for their cars. They have an annual payroll near $25B and 5 times that much in pensions.
It's hard to be an efficient run company when you cannot clean out the deadweight periodically.
What the unions should be saying to the people of detroit; "You may not have a job in Detroit, but if you do, you will get paid a crapload of money, get ridiculous medical benefits, and better pensions than anyone on the planet besides congress.
Unions were great back in the day before all the government regulation on companies, and lawyers taking over everything.
Let's look at our education system. The US pumps more money per child into their education system than any country on the planet. Yet there are more than 20 countries ahead of the US in education. Shit, there are eastern block countries with better education systems.
Again, it is unions pushing pay grades above market value, ridiculous health benefit plans, and making it nearly impossible to fire inept teachers. BTW... my wife is a teacher, so I am not bagging on teachers. I am bagging on the system.
Back to the auto makers.
I am not claiming that the guys showing up in their private jets waiving a tin can are not idiots either. That is just a different rant.
Kracker_Jap
11/21/08 11:36:40AM
Hi-Jacked_Thread 
I'll tell you what at home in my driveway I own 2 vehicles, A Ford and a Honda
The Honda Is dependable and safe
The Ford, well who in the hell buys a work vehicle from the Japanese?? all this hate on American product but have you been to a construction site?? whats the ratio of American Brands to Foreign???
I'll tell you what at home in my driveway I own 2 vehicles, A Ford and a Honda
The Honda Is dependable and safe
The Ford, well who in the hell buys a work vehicle from the Japanese?? all this hate on American product but have you been to a construction site?? whats the ratio of American Brands to Foreign???
mrsmiley
11/21/08 8:46:14PM
Unions have ups and downs just like anything else.
I will tell you though I believe some lines of work need them more than others.
Nursing homes desperetly need them,because most the companies and orgs getting involved in long term care are for profit and cut corners as much as they can when it comes to caring for the elderly.I've seen some crazy stuff go down that wouldn't if Nursing homes could ban together under a Union.
I will tell you though I believe some lines of work need them more than others.
Nursing homes desperetly need them,because most the companies and orgs getting involved in long term care are for profit and cut corners as much as they can when it comes to caring for the elderly.I've seen some crazy stuff go down that wouldn't if Nursing homes could ban together under a Union.
prozacnation1978
11/22/08 10:58:26AM
i am in a union
have been for 11 years now
believe me you don't want picket lines and crap
but if you were to get all the fighters in the us not just ufc but all of them in one solid union it might work
they will get dental, health care, eye care they might have to pay a hell of a premium but it could work. only thing is i think this would kill mma, not only that but seeing fighters cross the picket line to fight at events could get nasty.
have been for 11 years now
believe me you don't want picket lines and crap
but if you were to get all the fighters in the us not just ufc but all of them in one solid union it might work
they will get dental, health care, eye care they might have to pay a hell of a premium but it could work. only thing is i think this would kill mma, not only that but seeing fighters cross the picket line to fight at events could get nasty.
ncordless
11/22/08 6:42:40PM
I wouldn't buy an american car... period. For too long they have been making an inferior product. All this talk about US companies making the cars that the public wants is insane. The Big Three have consistently lost their share of the market by trying to forcefeed V8's and H2's down our throats and marketing them in such a way that idiots think they are cool.
US cars are slower, more inefficient, and less reliable than cars around the world. It is sad. It has a lot to do with short-sighted management. Part of tha short-sightedness is making agreements with their labor that are untenable in the current market. Another part is making Hummers instead of CR-Vs and
Foresters (I personally would never own a car besides a Subaru... best cars for the money hands down IMO. I own a Forester now. My last car was an Outback which I sold for $5,000 after getting the odometer over 300,000)
All that has not much to do with the situation of mma. I have been talking about a need to organize fighters for a couple years now. The more one company has control over a market, the more there is a need for organized labor. People make the short-sighted remark that if a fighter doesn't like the contract then he doesn't have to sign the contract. Where else is the fighter going to sign? All the best competition is (or should be) in the UFC. Is there not an interest in seeing the best fighters fight each other? If so, then is it not contrary to the best interests of the fans, the fighters, and the sport in general to have all the best fighters in one org? The UFC should be that org. But if they are, they need to come to terms with the fact that they need to behave in a ethically responsible business manner. That is going to include a collective bargainning agreement and profit-sharing with the players if they want to use the likeness.
To put it short... the UFC would do well to do the ethically correct thing and treat their fighters in a manner consistent with their position as the reason UFC means anything. UFC without the top fighters is a sham. If the UFC does not compromise with fighters and play fair... the fighters will unionize and demand what they want.
US cars are slower, more inefficient, and less reliable than cars around the world. It is sad. It has a lot to do with short-sighted management. Part of tha short-sightedness is making agreements with their labor that are untenable in the current market. Another part is making Hummers instead of CR-Vs and
Foresters (I personally would never own a car besides a Subaru... best cars for the money hands down IMO. I own a Forester now. My last car was an Outback which I sold for $5,000 after getting the odometer over 300,000)
All that has not much to do with the situation of mma. I have been talking about a need to organize fighters for a couple years now. The more one company has control over a market, the more there is a need for organized labor. People make the short-sighted remark that if a fighter doesn't like the contract then he doesn't have to sign the contract. Where else is the fighter going to sign? All the best competition is (or should be) in the UFC. Is there not an interest in seeing the best fighters fight each other? If so, then is it not contrary to the best interests of the fans, the fighters, and the sport in general to have all the best fighters in one org? The UFC should be that org. But if they are, they need to come to terms with the fact that they need to behave in a ethically responsible business manner. That is going to include a collective bargainning agreement and profit-sharing with the players if they want to use the likeness.
To put it short... the UFC would do well to do the ethically correct thing and treat their fighters in a manner consistent with their position as the reason UFC means anything. UFC without the top fighters is a sham. If the UFC does not compromise with fighters and play fair... the fighters will unionize and demand what they want.
Thundercats
11/25/08 12:40:32AM
Zuffa needs to be careful here. This coming year could get really dirty and I could see a lot of fighters jumping ship.
Sports Unions can be run very well like the NFL or on the other hand very bad (MLB). NFLPA allows players (current and former...somewhat) and the league to prosper and reap in optimal revenues. The mlb players union has too much power and has ruined the game.
Fighters, being some of the most sensible individuals in pro. athletics, can form one of the better unions if they involve former fighters and leave out people trying to capitalize.
And props to Fitch!!
Sports Unions can be run very well like the NFL or on the other hand very bad (MLB). NFLPA allows players (current and former...somewhat) and the league to prosper and reap in optimal revenues. The mlb players union has too much power and has ruined the game.
Fighters, being some of the most sensible individuals in pro. athletics, can form one of the better unions if they involve former fighters and leave out people trying to capitalize.
And props to Fitch!!
cmill21
11/25/08 12:53:48AM
Posted by Kracker_Jap
Hi-Jacked_Thread
I'll tell you what at home in my driveway I own 2 vehicles, A Ford and a Honda
The Honda Is dependable and safe
The Ford, well who in the hell buys a work vehicle from the Japanese?? all this hate on American product but have you been to a construction site?? whats the ratio of American Brands to Foreign???
I drive a dodge, which is perfect for work, and I would say alot more guys drive a dodge or ford on site. However it seems to be shifting now with the Tundra's and Titan's. I will be buying a new truck in the next couple weeks and it will either be one of the new Ram's or a Tundra.
CanadianCripplr
11/25/08 4:34:06AM
If fighters are dumb enough to sign contracts that limiting they are screwed. Not being able to make money on your name even after contract expires? 10% of revenue on your own name? These guys need to get together and look after themselves or they will be broke, broken down old men with no recourse to make alivin when they hit 40. They wont all be randys.
warglory
11/25/08 9:54:55AM
Posted by CanadianCripplr
If fighters are dumb enough to sign contracts that limiting they are screwed. Not being able to make money on your name even after contract expires? 10% of revenue on your own name? These guys need to get together and look after themselves or they will be broke, broken down old men with no recourse to make alivin when they hit 40. They wont all be randys.
One could say the same if they DON'T sign the contract either.
telnights
11/25/08 11:53:23AM
Unions had there place years and years ago but now they are just a strain on the employees and company's. Now days unions most of time are more corrupt than the company's they are trying to screw over. Back in the day workers had no protection against company's. But now day there are laws in place to protect workers from the very thing unions were made for. They are no longer needed and just cost company's and its employees tons of money. In the end they hurt the very thing they were made to protect and that's your avg worker.
Now people can down talk the UFC all they want but truth is they are the ONLY profitable MMA company around. So the UFC must be doing something right. Without the UFC MMA there wouldn't even be any talk of a union or other MMA orgs trying to get in to the biz. The UFC pays its fighters on avg better than boxing. The only people that make money in boxing is your big names and promoters that's it. Your under card fighters most of the time don't even make enough to cover their fees. So before the UFC haters go knocking the UFC think about the fact that we wouldn't even be talking on these forums if it wasn't for the UFC.
Now people can down talk the UFC all they want but truth is they are the ONLY profitable MMA company around. So the UFC must be doing something right. Without the UFC MMA there wouldn't even be any talk of a union or other MMA orgs trying to get in to the biz. The UFC pays its fighters on avg better than boxing. The only people that make money in boxing is your big names and promoters that's it. Your under card fighters most of the time don't even make enough to cover their fees. So before the UFC haters go knocking the UFC think about the fact that we wouldn't even be talking on these forums if it wasn't for the UFC.
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