Yellow Cards

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POLL: Would you like to see yellow cards implemented in the UFC and other orgs?
Yes 40% (16)
No 28% (11)
I think there are better options 33% (13)
disorderlyvision
3/9/08 7:39:06PM
One of the things i really liked about Pride FC, aside from knees on the ground, were the yellow cards. It kept fighters from stalling and using lay and pray tactics. I wish other orgs would pick this up. I like the ground game. I just dont like it when a fighter holds a position and doesnt do anything with it. It would also have stopped fights like Sylvia/Arlovski 3, Shamrock/Severn, etc.
I also liked that if a fighter continued to stall after the warning he would be docked a % of his pay. That would motivate fighters, and i think give better and more exciting fights to the fans. your thoughts?
papercut
3/9/08 7:41:32PM
yellow cards would help keep fighters moving and then sean sherk would need a new tactic but yeah they would be a good thing to adopt it could lead to more exciting fights nothing wrong with waiting to capitalize on the ground but 5 rounds of laying on a guy is too much
JBatch
3/9/08 7:52:02PM
I say yellow cards would be a great thing to implement in the UFC. Yet if the UFC would implement a more equal stand up policy we would not need the yellow card system. Guys known for LnP seemto have a free pass to do so. Yet when two unknowns or a striker takes someone to the ground it is stood up almost immediately. Randy can lie on someone for 3-4 minutes of a round, yet when Gonzaga took on CC he wa stood upin like 1 while still active.
juanez13
3/9/08 8:16:18PM
i actually hate that. I say is the fighter on the bottoms fault for LnP, its a skill, and if the fighter on the bottom cant find a way to get out, than they deserve to loose. its like cro cop trying to hold on to gonzaga so that the fight would be restarted on the feet, he deserved to loose just by doing that, he should have tried something to try and get back to his feet, and if he cant, well who's fault is it?...............also 10% of a fighters pay? thats alot of money, especially to those making alot of money, of for those making very little, and it is more $ than if you would have been caught with roids in your system, which one do you think its more wrong? so if they are gonna take 10% off, it should be to both guys, ............i wouldnt oppose to refs standing that fights quicker if the fight is innactive, but the yellow card pushes it a bit too far for my taste.
Pookie
3/9/08 8:20:15PM
in theory it works for me, but in practice it has many faults.
Its subjective and usually people got the yellow cards in pride for no real reason.
(I.E. Rampage vs. Randleman)
A lay and pray clock i would like. 24 seconds on the ground, if no damage is done or no position is impoved, should be stood-up imo.
The reason i feel there should be a lay and pray clock is that top position is heavily scored unjustly.

If they changed the scoring system to something more adequate than i'd say let them lay on each other til teh rounds end.
bls1919
3/9/08 8:41:06PM
I think this would be a great rule change. it would makes guys like Sherk, O'Brian,and Karo try to finish fights. In short it would make guys fight to win not fight not to lose
jiujitsufreak74
3/9/08 8:51:28PM

Posted by Pookie

in theory it works for me, but in practice it has many faults.
Its subjective and usually people got the yellow cards in pride for no real reason.
(I.E. Rampage vs. Randleman)
A lay and pray clock i would like. 24 seconds on the ground, if no damage is done or no position is impoved, should be stood-up imo.
The reason i feel there should be a lay and pray clock is that top position is heavily scored unjustly.

If they changed the scoring system to something more adequate than i'd say let them lay on each other til teh rounds end.


i would love this system if it was implemented correctly. however there is too much subjectivity in distributing the yellow cards and different referees have different preferences which would lead to an unstructured distribution of penalties. i also agree that top position is scored too favorably and thus it is able to persist but i don't think a clock should be used. instead i think that the referees should get a notice saying to be more strict with standups. a stand up clock like the yellow cards are good in theory but it would cause controversy in practice although ironically for the opposite reason as yellow cads. yellow cards wouldn't work because if the subjectivity of implementation while the clock is not subjective enough to be embraced by all fans...if that makes any sense
seanfu
3/9/08 9:44:23PM
I think it is complete BullSH*T! Yes it entertained me at the expense of 10 % of their purse. Rampage Vs Randleman their styles matched up to clinch and what happened. I'll watch an extra 10 secs of clinching so rookie fighters can make a living.

Don't touch the purses. If someone is stalling from bottom repeatedly the maybe but it's overall bad for business. Maybe the yellow card could be a warning and the next card could do some damage like a point or purse money.

I just don't like the fact that inexperiance or bad stylistic matchups can be punished and hinder someone. A guy like couture might have been carded a bunch of times in his early career. Some styles are boring, get over it, like Joe Rogan says about standups, "if a guy can hold you down and hit you for 5 minutes tough balls"

When a ref gets standup happy it doesn't reflect the heart of the sport and the roots of the sport. They're not there to entertain the crowd, they're there to fight.
Pookie
3/9/08 9:48:10PM

Posted by seanfu

I think it is complete BullSH*T! Yes it entertained me at the expense of 10 % of their purse. Rampage Vs Randleman their styles matched up to clinch and what happened. I'll watch an extra 10 secs of clinching so rookie fighters can make a living.

Don't touch the purses. If someone is stalling from bottom repeatedly the maybe but it's overall bad for business. Maybe the yellow card could be a warning and the next card could do some damage like a point or purse money.

I just don't like the fact that inexperiance can be punished and hinder someone. A guy like couture might have been carded a bunch of times in his early career. Some styles are boring, get over it, like Joe Rogan says about standups, "if a guy can hold you down and hit you for 5 minutes tough balls"

When a ref gets standup happy it doesn't reflect the heart of the sport and the roots of the sport. Their not there to entertain the crowd, their there to fight.



on that token should a fighter deserve to win a round by simply laying on his opponent? Of course not, and until the scoring system itself is changed this type of debate will continue.
seanfu
3/9/08 9:58:19PM
on that token should a fighter deserve to win a round by simply laying on his opponent? Of course not, and until the scoring system itself is changed this type of debate will continue

That's very true BUT a strong wrestler should win the round if not much is doe by either man due to control,

I see what you're saying with bad decisions but that is something that is another subject completely. In some of these events boxing judges have been used. very poor choice.

If someone with an ACTIVE guard style such as a Diaz or a Gracie or Noguiera uses a barrage of SUBS and the guy on top isn't retaliating or if the guy on top is not in control of his opponent ,CONDIT being an example, and the guy is retaliating then yes the guy on bottom should win the round.

With Yellow cards, however, they wouldn't even get the chance to do so.
That should be acknowaged.
JimiMak
3/9/08 10:18:46PM
There's already a standup policy. I'd like to see it put into effect more often. The purse deduction there is a lot of argument over that prevents its implementation. I don't like it I think there should be a winners purse and a losers to each fight. But we could all argue about how their contracts should be structured... it won't change anything.
CantAndleDaRiddum
3/10/08 1:39:26AM
yellow cards are good motivators, but so are bonuses. i dont care
Kpro
3/10/08 1:58:31AM
I think stand-ups happen too quickly as it is, subs don't happen in the first 30 seconds of hitting the ground very often, they have to be worked for, and sometimes it may appear to be stalling when it is simply positioning.

And are some people for a 10% purse reduction the same fans who talk negatively about fighter pay? hmmmmm
NatedawgThaM
3/10/08 2:46:29AM



Posted by juanez13

i actually hate that. I say is the fighter on the bottoms fault for LnP, its a skill, and if the fighter on the bottom cant find a way to get out, than they deserve to loose. its like cro cop trying to hold on to gonzaga so that the fight would be restarted on the feet, he deserved to loose just by doing that, he should have tried something to try and get back to his feet, and if he cant, well who's fault is it?...............also 10% of a fighters pay? thats alot of money, especially to those making alot of money, of for those making very little, and it is more $ than if you would have been caught with roids in your system, which one do you think its more wrong? so if they are gonna take 10% off, it should be to both guys, ............i wouldnt oppose to refs standing that fights quicker if the fight is innactive, but the yellow card pushes it a bit too far for my taste.





Wrestling is a style, get use to it. It's the person on the bottoms fault for not trying to get off there ass, and it's a chump move if there just going to grab tight and wait for it to be stood up. Make them work. THIS IS MIXED MARTIAL ARTS, NOT KICKBOXING!!!!

If you want stand up action, watch kickboxing or boxing like I do. Wrestling is a style and if a person on bottom can't get inot a better position or pull off the submission it's there own fault. 10% OF THERE PURSE, ARE YOU SERIOUS? Half these fighters don't make nearly enough. That's complete bullcrap and pray I never have to hear that again.
hippysmacker
3/10/08 8:05:03PM
I have to say not yellow cards again. I agree with the idea of yellow card's , but the practice doesn't always fit the theory. In Pride they seem to definitely favor the Japanese fighter's. Judging, yellow cards, are both subjective. It's like communism, seems like a Utopian idea. Everyone has the same, we all work together blah.. blah.. blah..Their must always be someone in charge of the system, so everyone's not the same. If everyone got paid the same whether they worked hard or not, it punishes hard worker's and reward's slacker's. Yellow card's is similar because the people who decide who get them aren't always in agreement on the criteria. You have favoritism of fighter, fighting style, and possibly corruption thrown in the bargain. Also, some will try to fight by the spirit of the rule , go all out, and then leave openings. The other guy can just wait for someone like that to go for it, and capitalize on it. Again, I like the idea but I've seen the aforementioned Rampage, and many others, get a bunch of yellow card's when they definitely were not stalling. The US athletic commissions oversight would probably cut down( or remove altogether) on the corruption angle, but since they seem to pick incompetent judges/refs sometimes, I am not sure I want them picking who decides a yellow card either.
stock
3/11/08 5:01:36PM
I don't see the need for them.
I would rather see incentives for finishing a fight (ie.. bonuses for ending the fight early), rather than messing with a fighter's salary due to some subjective decision from a ref.

Interestingly enough, Pride seems to have less fights going to decision than the UFC during the same time periods. I am not totally convinced that this is due to yellow cards (probably a small piece of the puzzle), but more-so due to the lack of wrestling tallent in Japan with more submission fighters.

I stole this analysis from another site. Take for what it is worth.
***********************************************************************
I made some calculations about how bouts end in both The UFC and the ol' Pride. I left out UFC Fight Nights and Pride Bushidos. The UFN are free so who really cares, and the Bushidos were only 2 rounds. I looked at the last 10 events for both orgs from UFC 73 to 64 and Pride 34 to 30 with Shockwave's 06 and 05, FC Absolute, Critical Countdown, and Total Elimination. I didnt include the only draw ( Tito v Rashad ) in the sum of the 180 bouts, and I included Nick Diaz's win over Gomi as a sub. Hey, it's what the fans saw, and that's all that matters really.

UFC:
Total (T)KO - 36 40.5%
Total Subs - 23 25.8%
Total Decs - 30 33.7%
Total Bouts - 89
Average Card: 3-4 KOs, 2 Subs, 3 Dec

Pride:
Total (T)KO - 36 40%
Total Subs - 35 38.9%
Total Decs - 19 21.1%
Total Bouts - 90
Average Card 3-4 KOs, 3-4 Subs, 1-2 Dec

UFC highest numbers in any one night KO/Sub/Dec:
6/3/5
Lowest:
1/1/1

Pride:
Highest:
5/5/5
Lowest:
2/1/0

Modal numbers: ( the most frequently occuring numbers )
UFC: 4/3/3
Pride : 4/4/1

Number of times the UFC had 2 or less of a certain outcome:
2/5/3
Pride:
1/2/7 ( seven out of ten cards had 2 or less dec )

Times bout ending happened zero times in a night:
UFC:
0/0/0
Pride:
0/0/2 ( Two cards had no decisions )

Times there were more or equal decisions than either of the others ( not combined ):
UFC: 4 in 10
Pride: 2 in 10

Times there were more decs than anything else ( combined ):
UFC: 1 ( 69 )
Pride: 0

UFC best of the best: UFC 65 6/1/2, UFC 66 5/3/1
Worst: UFC 69 1/2/5, UFC 73 2/3/4, UFC 67 4/1/4
Pride best of the best: 34 3/5/0, 33 4/4/1, Critical 4/4/1, or Total Elim 4/4/0
Worst: Shockwave 2005 2/5/5 ( still finished more fights than went to dec ).

The numbers are the numbers and I aint gonna spin em. Use your own heads. But at a UFC event your gonna see a whole lot more decisions, 1 in 3, than subs, 1 in 4.
At an old Pride event, you'd see more subs, 2 in 5, than decs, 1 in 5.

Yellow cards anyone?

http://morethanufc.blogspot.com/2007/07 … ecide.html

**************************************************************************
Jipper
3/12/08 4:58:53AM
A lot of fighters don't get paid enough as it is. If the UFC adopts Yellow cards so will the small orgs with fighters that get paid in 3 digits instead of 6.

And what about Travis Fulton? That guy will fight for a pack of Rolo's candy. What do you do take away a 3rd of his snack?

There's got to be a better way.
jae_1833
3/14/08 2:57:26PM
Just dock pay for the boring fights....you know who they are!!!
NatedawgThaM
3/14/08 4:12:27PM

Posted by stock

I don't see the need for them.
I would rather see incentives for finishing a fight (ie.. bonuses for ending the fight early), rather than messing with a fighter's salary due to some subjective decision from a ref.

Interestingly enough, Pride seems to have less fights going to decision than the UFC during the same time periods. I am not totally convinced that this is due to yellow cards (probably a small piece of the puzzle), but more-so due to the lack of wrestling tallent in Japan with more submission fighters.

I stole this analysis from another site. Take for what it is worth.





Wrestling is more popular in the USA where the UFC rather then in the Foreign countries, kickboxing and juijitsu/judo is more popular.
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