The WWE's poor attempt at MMA

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grappler0000
11/12/07 2:52:41PM
So, I haven't really watched professional wrestling since the late 80's...well, maybe early 90's. Naturaldisater posted a spoiler last week that the Undertaker would win his Smackdown match via Triangle Choke...well, I couldn't help but watch after hearing that. So, before I comment, here is the video if you haven't seen it.

Video

This particular match was being called a NHB match...what does that mean exactly? Not sure. I don't remember too many holds being barred in pro wrestling...some organizations have banned the piledriver, due to neck injures, but not much beyond that. So, I tried to figure out what was different in this match compared to a normal wrestling match. The undertaker was wearing MMA gloves, but Khali wasn't...after some thought, I realized that Khali would probably be wearing them too, had they been able to find a pair to fit. So, aside from the MMA gloves (and the finishing move that would soon happen), this was your everyday average pro wrestling matchup.

Is this the WWE's attempt in fooling wrestling fans into thinking that what they are watching is just as good as the real thing. Is this an attempt to prime their audience before they watch Lesnar's UFC debut (and they will watch), so they can say to themselves that they already get to see those things for free twice a week in the WWE? I'm not sure, but gloves and a triangle choke don't make it any more entertaining to me anyway. And other than to look like an MMA fight, what is the point of them wearing the gloves? Wrestlers have fought for years without them. Is McMahon intending to have these sort of matches more frequently in the future? Will they have a NHB belt, similar to the Hardcore title?

The entire match pretty much looks just like pro wrestling to me until the Undertaker slaps in the triangle. I do know that UT is a fan of MMA (from the video of him in Hughes' locker room), but don't know if he actually trains JJ or anything else for that matter. Whether he trains or not, he was definitely struggling to secure the triangle, due to Khali's enormous build. The best part is the commentators are claiming he has it in deep, yet he never had it locked at the knee.

I'm not sure exactly what Vince McMahon's long term goals are here, but it seems to be a pretty lame attempt at cashing in on the success of MMA. I guess when they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, it speaks volumes.

Oh, and BTW...if you watch the video, the Undertaker actually pins himself while trying to apply the choke(unofficially)...I guess they didn't think of that though.
ohiostate1016
11/12/07 3:16:22PM
First of all, that Khali dude is a terrible wrestler. Not only did he take a terrible bump on UT's chokeslam, but that vise grip move is a joke. I hate how the WWE has a bunch of big guys who can't wrestle (guys like Taker and Kane are good though).

On another note, I don't think this was an attempt at MMA. UT has been wearing "MMA gloves" , or grappling gloves, for years now. I think that he uses them to give homage to his wrestling background, as most fans do not see them as MMA gloves, but more as just gloves (in mainstream gloves still equal boxing).

Also, I think that this fight was called "No holds barred" because they wanted to sort of hint at the fact that it was gonna be decided by a submission (I'm not sure about this, but that Khali's vice grip move may be "barred"). So I don't think it has any connection with MMA.

Yeah, that triangle was pretty bad, though.
puppetmaster837
11/12/07 3:18:20PM
I still watch wrestling on occasion and they have been doing "NHB" matches forever. It just means there are no disqualifications. Low blows are legal, chairs, tables, all of that kind of stuff.
grappler0000
11/12/07 3:22:57PM

Posted by puppetmaster837

I still watch wrestling on occasion and they have been doing "NHB" matches forever. It just means there are no disqualifications. Low blows are legal, chairs, tables, all of that kind of stuff.



Yes, I'm familiar with the "No DQ" matches, but this wasn't that...they are calling it NHB, which is quite different.
ohiostate1016
11/12/07 3:25:11PM
There are a ton of names for the same type of fight. Hardcore, No DQ, No Holds Barred, etc. They all mean the same thing, but they just make it look different so fans don't think they are doing the same thing.
kevietre
11/12/07 3:54:22PM
MMA IS TAKIN OVER AND EVERYBODY WANT'S A PIECE OF IT
grappler0000
11/12/07 3:55:12PM

Posted by ohiostate1016

There are a ton of names for the same type of fight. Hardcore, No DQ, No Holds Barred, etc. They all mean the same thing, but they just make it look different so fans don't think they are doing the same thing.



The Hardcore match is not the same either...in fact a hardcore match is probably about the only time you can defeat someone outside of the ring.

I can see where maybe the NHB and No DQ matches are somewhat interchangeable, but you add the other small elements in and it was an obvious attempt at imitating MMA...I don't think it was an accident that they labeled it NHB (as opposed to No DQ), considering that's how some people still refer to MMA.

On a side note, I also saw Batista referring to growing up street fighting and "cage fighting"...is McMahon just trying to legitimize these guys as fighters? I'm not sure.
ohiostate1016
11/12/07 4:06:42PM

Posted by grappler0000


The Hardcore match is not the same either...in fact a hardcore match is probably about the only time you can defeat someone outside of the ring.




What about a falls count anywhere match? LOL.
grappler0000
11/12/07 4:21:11PM

Posted by ohiostate1016


Posted by grappler0000


The Hardcore match is not the same either...in fact a hardcore match is probably about the only time you can defeat someone outside of the ring.




What about a falls count anywhere match? LOL.



I hope that one is a joke...if not, you watch entirely too much wrestling
buckndro
11/12/07 4:59:26PM
i thought it was funny, as they said its been called NHB before an for awhile everyone knows its fake and wrestling helped MMA out a bit anyways people who like MMA half them watched or liked wrestling...
SpiderSilva
11/12/07 8:03:35PM
The chock look bad do to a bad performer ala Kali or whatever his name is. The WWE tend to put the Taker in with less quality performers because he is great at what he does he has put on some of the best shows ever 1st hell in the cell was #1. He is well know for taking care of wrestler in the ring by making them look good as well as not injering anybody there was a vary long strech where he had not hurt anyone. Taker is like the #2 greatest performer next to "Hitman" Hart
Boo_Radley21
11/12/07 8:44:12PM
I said this in the other thread about this triangle and Ill say it again. Undertaker has been pulling off submissions in matches for a long time. I haven't watched wrestling in quite a while but when I did they constantly called him the best pure striker in pro wrestling and he went for submissions like that all the time. The gloves have been worn by him for years too, like someone already pointed out.

And a no holds barred match has nothing to do with holds. Haven't you heard the phrase no holds barred? It just means anything goes. I don't think they have hardcore matches anymore they just renamed it. Don't know why.

And that's my knowledge of wwe. Thank you.
grappler0000
11/12/07 9:22:48PM

Posted by Boo_Radley21

I said this in the other thread about this triangle and Ill say it again. Undertaker has been pulling off submissions in matches for a long time. I haven't watched wrestling in quite a while but when I did they constantly called him the best pure striker in pro wrestling and he went for submissions like that all the time. The gloves have been worn by him for years too, like someone already pointed out.

And a no holds barred match has nothing to do with holds. Haven't you heard the phrase no holds barred? It just means anything goes. I don't think they have hardcore matches anymore they just renamed it. Don't know why.

And that's my knowledge of wwe. Thank you.



IDK, maybe it's because I haven't followed wrestling too closely in many years, but it just seemed to be too many coincidences. And yes, I'm aware of the NHB term being used, but hadn't heard it much since Zeus left the WWF...to my recollection, the "No DQ" was the term most thrown around.

I do have a question then...what did they do in the match that made it NHB? Usually they do something out of the realm of a normal match...I didn't notice anything different other than the triangle...I was pretty certain that a triangle choke had never been applied in the WWE before...and the commentators confirmed my suspicion. Since they seemed to focus on that, is part of the reason why I think they are trying to imitate MMA.

I remember the gloves that the undertaker originally wore, which were kind of tacky. I know he wore some leather gloves during his biker phase...I'm assuming he started wearing the padded gloves when he sort of picked up with his old routine...still not sure why he needs padded knuckles when he's not really punching anyone. And someone referred to them as grappling gloves earlier...can someone enlighten me as to what grappling gloves are?
Djbb
11/12/07 9:34:04PM
Vince McMahon and his stooges will always try to cash in on anything they hope earns them ratings. Sometimes it works, but most of the time they just end up being retarded. Also, this isn't the first time the WWE has tried incorporating MMA into their show. Anyone remember the "Brawl for All" tournament they had? It was a 'legitimate' toughman contest they had, even Dan Severn (then a WWE wrestler) participated. It turned out equally retarded.

WWE's worst attempt at MMA
jgordon85
11/13/07 1:23:03AM

Posted by Djbb

Vince McMahon and his stooges will always try to cash in on anything they hope earns them ratings. Sometimes it works, but most of the time they just end up being retarded. Also, this isn't the first time the WWE has tried incorporating MMA into their show. Anyone remember the "Brawl for All" tournament they had? It was a 'legitimate' toughman contest they had, even Dan Severn (then a WWE wrestler) participated. It turned out equally retarded.

WWE's worst attempt at MMA

wikipedia has everything on it!lol i remember that too. did'nt the winner of the whole tournement face butterbean?
Mastodon2
11/13/07 2:36:36AM
Wow...


The commentator had obviously been studying Joe Rogan ("Wow, that is in DEEP!") but man, what an awful match. I havnt enjoyed Pro wrestling years, but I still know what a good match looks like, and that was just awful!
D0wnUnd6e6r
11/13/07 11:00:16AM

Posted by Djbb

Vince McMahon and his stooges will always try to cash in on anything they hope earns them ratings. Sometimes it works, but most of the time they just end up being retarded. Also, this isn't the first time the WWE has tried incorporating MMA into their show. Anyone remember the "Brawl for All" tournament they had? It was a 'legitimate' toughman contest they had, even Dan Severn (then a WWE wrestler) participated. It turned out equally retarded.

WWE's worst attempt at MMA



They had Severn Lose to The Godfather?!?!?!?!?!?!
buckndro
11/13/07 4:24:27PM

Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r


Posted by Djbb

Vince McMahon and his stooges will always try to cash in on anything they hope earns them ratings. Sometimes it works, but most of the time they just end up being retarded. Also, this isn't the first time the WWE has tried incorporating MMA into their show. Anyone remember the "Brawl for All" tournament they had? It was a 'legitimate' toughman contest they had, even Dan Severn (then a WWE wrestler) participated. It turned out equally retarded.

WWE's worst attempt at MMA



They had Severn Lose to The Godfather?!?!?!?!?!?!



yea i remeber this so called tournment was pretty funny also

UFC veteran Dan "The Beast" Severn withdrew after being frustrated by the round structure, the judging (his takedowns were repeatedly ruled 'not clean') and having to wear boxing gloves.

an when i read that off wik made me laugh more his take downs not being clean
Kainlock
11/13/07 4:33:53PM
WWE has always pulled from other MMA and boxing going on. They signed Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn he made tapping out popular. They had a brawl for all boxing and brought in Butter Bean for Wrestlemania. If it is popular WWE will use aspects of it.
rcg916
11/13/07 7:51:03PM

Posted by Djbb

Vince McMahon and his stooges will always try to cash in on anything they hope earns them ratings. Sometimes it works, but most of the time they just end up being retarded. Also, this isn't the first time the WWE has tried incorporating MMA into their show. Anyone remember the "Brawl for All" tournament they had? It was a 'legitimate' toughman contest they had, even Dan Severn (then a WWE wrestler) participated. It turned out equally retarded.

WWE's worst attempt at MMA



Uh, no Dan Severn didnt compete. They wanted him to but he pulled out (without even fighting once), claiming he had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Oh, and its called a fad. Wrestling has always tried to integrate what is popular, and MMA is popular...

And of course, the elite organization of MMA fans everywhere unite to band against this horrible atrocity...

Get over it. There is MMA and there is Pro Wrestling. Completely different forms of entertainment.

If you are defending MMA in this arguement, then, in essence, you are saying that pro wrestling isnt staged, and we all know it is.

The old phrase, "Its like comparing apples and oranges"... That applies well here. Its okay to like both, one, or neither. Quit judging people for their choice of entertainment medium.

EDIT: Before someone gets their jollies calling me out on Severn never fighting, I mean he never fought legitamitely... It was worked, although most didnt realize it. Its all on Godfathers shoot interview...
Djbb
11/14/07 12:40:40AM

Posted by rcg916

Oh, and its called a fad. Wrestling has always tried to integrate what is popular, and MMA is popular...And of course, the elite organization of MMA fans everywhere unite to band against this horrible atrocity...Get over it. There is MMA and there is Pro Wrestling. Completely different forms of entertainment. If you are defending MMA in this arguement, then, in essence, you are saying that pro wrestling isnt staged, and we all know it is. The old phrase, "Its like comparing apples and oranges"... That applies well here. Its okay to like both, one, or neither. Quit judging people for their choice of entertainment medium.



I wasn't railing against the WWE or its performers to be a douchebag. I myself was once a fan of pro wrestling, hell, watching Ken Shamrock during his pro wrestling years is what made me rent a UFC tape in the first place. I was merely pointing out the WWE script-writers are sometimes a bit retarded in the things they decide to air. Yes, WWE will always try to intergrate popular fads into their programming, but some things just don't mix. I watch pro wrestling for the athleticism and high-risk stunts the superstars showcase, and I watch MMA because lets face it, some guy getting his ass whooped (legitimately) is entertaining. There was no 'elite organization' of MMA fans uniting to band against the 'horrible atrocity' of professional wrestling, as you described. Nobody was judging anyone for watching wrestling, as a matter of fact I know there are quit a few fans of pro wrestling on this forum. We were merely pointing out the hilarity of WWE trying to incorporate MMA-style manuevers into its programming and then further attempting to convince its audience that the manuevers in question were legitimate when, as evidenced by the OP's linked video, the manuevers were not legitimate and not even properly done.
Ultimate_fighter
11/17/07 1:51:54AM

Posted by ohiostate1016

First of all, that Khali dude is a terrible wrestler. Not only did he take a terrible bump on UT's chokeslam, but that vise grip move is a joke. I hate how the WWE has a bunch of big guys who can't wrestle (guys like Taker and Kane are good though).

On another note, I don't think this was an attempt at MMA. UT has been wearing "MMA gloves" , or grappling gloves, for years now. I think that he uses them to give homage to his wrestling background, as most fans do not see them as MMA gloves, but more as just gloves (in mainstream gloves still equal boxing).

Also, I think that this fight was called "No holds barred" because they wanted to sort of hint at the fact that it was gonna be decided by a submission (I'm not sure about this, but that Khali's vice grip move may be "barred"). So I don't think it has any connection with MMA.

Yeah, that triangle was pretty bad, though.


Yea, and that Rey Mysterio guy is wearing MMA type gloves. I thought that the triangle choke was very dumb to put in WWE... like a rnc i can understand or a guillotine, but a tc?
madmarck
11/17/07 1:22:29PM
pretty sure those blows to the back of the next wouldtn float in MMA

Couple of things about that Triangle
1)Khali had pinnned during part of it
2)When it wasnt he could have easily stacked the Undertake up on his shoulders and pinned him
3)That was a pretty shitty triangle was never tight
4)Khali didnt fight it at all. He sat down and let the Undertaker do it.
You'd think there would have been a struggle.
5)Khali is strong enough taht he could have slammed the Undertaker out of it
6)I have never seen anyone get caught in a triangle that easily. IF you see a Triangle done once you will not get caught liek that
ncordless
11/17/07 4:24:05PM

Posted by puppetmaster837

I still watch wrestling on occasion and they have been doing "NHB" matches forever. It just means there are no disqualifications. Low blows are legal, chairs, tables, all of that kind of stuff.



Doesn't NHB mean that Hogan and the dude with the lazy eye from "Friday" are going to make a movie?
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