WTF Bisbing vs. Shamrock????

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warglory
6/19/07 1:29:04AM
Bisbing by decision, unless he turns Shamrock into hamburger in the first. I doubt Shammy has a chance to take this.
Hurricane_Brad
6/19/07 1:38:16AM
Ken has not been impressive for a while now, but he has at least been fighting mostly top level fighters. Bisping has not fought anyone of importance yet, and very nearly got caught in his fight with Sinosic. I think Shammy has a better chance than a lot of people are giving him in this fight.
Sheddy
6/19/07 1:55:43AM

Posted by Svartorm

I've never been impressed with Bisping, and if Elvis almost put Bisping away twice while horribly jet-lagged, I can see Ken scoring a sub in the 1st.



A fight ain't over til it's over, so all that "almost won" talk is bollocks.
I suppose you think Hunt "almost" beat Fedor?
hippysmacker
6/19/07 5:20:03AM

Posted by NME


Posted by Svartorm

If you mean I easily picked Ken, you're right.



This is why person to person wagering never should have been done away with.



Gotta admit, that made me LOL. Listen guys, Ken's a legend, and he'll always be one, but put the Saku and early Tito stoppages aside even though you are right about them . He was already getting pounded by Tito, and if Herb just waits 2 seconds I thinks he's seeing stars.As for the Saku fight, he turned his back and stuck his head out the ropes after getting clipped. there are no timeouts in MMA. Bisping may not be the most technical striker or best wrestler, but he' still better at both than Ken IMO. The only advantages Ken can seem to have are physical strength and leglocks. I think it's a shame if the UFC allows this fight to happen. Trying to put someone over by having them vanquish a name is not cool , once they have been proven to no longer be a top fighter. Shamrock should have been done fighting contending or possible upcoming contenders after Ace IMO. Same with Royce, after Hughes proved where he is now. After Tito I can't see him fighting anyone currently relevant and winning. Ken/Saku/Royce, Mo/Ruas/Frye and anyone else of their ilk have their place in history. I wish they would just be content with it now.They could just make money coaching /Endorsements, Seminars and from just being themselves. I would hope they would learn to enjoy the fruits of their past labors, and be content with that. I realize guys like this didn't get to where they were without a huge competitive spirit and ego, but It makes me sad watching the hero's of my youth be embarrassed and Manhandled.
Rich78
6/19/07 5:59:15AM
Thought of this last night and I think they're trying to re-create the latest Rocky movie.

On one side you have a young arrogant star fighter despite the fact he hasn't fought any real tough opposition.

On the other an over the hill fighter thats still arguably one of the most popular.

Whats the betting that Shamrock takes him the distance but loses on decision, therefore giving Shamrock his belief he can still do it and thus exercising his demons, while the young upstart wins the fight yet is humbled in the process and gains humility.

ADRIAN!!!!!!

Too much drink last night maybe.....???

State_Champ
6/19/07 8:45:20AM
Ken wins. Anybody who complains about seeing a fighter drag themselves out of retirement for one last at victory doesn't have much fighting spirit...c'mon guys, Shamrock was really good back in the day.
Signal2112
6/19/07 9:13:08AM
I think if Ken can pull himself together he might be able to put something together in this one, but Bisping has the advantage of being the fresher fighter. I know his last showing was poor but hey.
hippysmacker
6/19/07 11:27:01AM

Posted by State_Champ

Ken wins. Anybody who complains about seeing a fighter drag themselves out of retirement for one last at victory doesn't have much fighting spirit...c'mon guys, Shamrock was really good back in the day.



I'm not mad that he has dragged himself out of retirement, Randy is my favorite fighter, and he pulled it off. However, I would be mad if he came back and got embarrased. Legends have nothing to prove to me, that's why the are legends. Ken would need to put himself under someone elses tutelage in order to grow as a fighter IMO. I don't think he will, and I think the game has passed his old style by. I don't want to see these guys end up like Ali and Holyfield.
richieb19
6/19/07 11:32:29AM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by State_Champ

Ken wins. Anybody who complains about seeing a fighter drag themselves out of retirement for one last at victory doesn't have much fighting spirit...c'mon guys, Shamrock was really good back in the day.



I'm not mad that he has dragged himself out of retirement, Randy is my favorite fighter, and he pulled it off. However, I would be mad if he came back and got embarrased. Legends have nothing to prove to me, that's why the are legends. Ken would need to put himself under someone elses tutelage in order to grow as a fighter IMO. I don't think he will, and I think the game has passed his old style by. I don't want to see these guys end up like Ali and Holyfield.

You see thats where I think you're wrong, Ken has grown leaps and bounds as a fighter, his standup has improve 10 fold, and his wrestling and submission game has always been top notch. I think so long as he comes in ready, and finds someone young and full of steam to push him in training (which shouldn't be too hard, maybe John Gunderson), he shouldn't have any problems at all with Bisping. Like I said prior, his only 2 real concerns would be if he isn't able to find his range, which he usually has no problems with, however with his reach of 66" he just has to make sure he stays in close and fires away, and secondly is just not to get overwhelmed against the cage, whether it be on the ground or standing. Bisping's wrestling skills aren't too great, so there shouldn't be much of a problem for Ken... Ken has all the tools in his pocket for this fight, but Bisping has the youth and the home crowd... should be interesting.
hippysmacker
6/19/07 12:26:49PM
Isn't Gunderson a lightweight. The last lions den trasined fighter that I can think of that was even possibly top 20 20 at a eight class is Lutter. I have no idea if Lutter trains with him anymore, but I still think Ken would need to submit his ego and put himself under someone else. I know your a huge Ken fan, and maybe you have inside info I'm not privy to, but with the info I do have I still feel the same.Please, by all means , if you have more info share it with us. thanks
richieb19
6/19/07 12:34:44PM

Posted by hippysmacker

Isn't Gunderson a lightweight. The last lions den trasined fighter that I can think of that was even possibly top 20 20 at a eight class is Lutter. I have no idea if Lutter trains with him anymore, but I still think Ken would need to submit his ego and put himself under someone else. I know your a huge Ken fan, and maybe you have inside info I'm not privy to, but with the info I do have I still feel the same.Please, by all means , if you have more info share it with us. thanks

Lutter trained with Mezger for a while, but I think thats long past... The only person still really around from the old Lion's Den would be Vernon White, but like I said his new group of guys are all young and talented... Gunderson just happens to be the best IMHO, and you're right hes a 155er... Shamrock's got ties everywhere though, and it would be neat to see him call up Bas, Frye, Randy, etc... for once. Who knows though...
keith-hackney1
6/19/07 12:52:25PM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by State_Champ

Ken wins. Anybody who complains about seeing a fighter drag themselves out of retirement for one last at victory doesn't have much fighting spirit...c'mon guys, Shamrock was really good back in the day.



I'm not mad that he has dragged himself out of retirement, Randy is my favorite fighter, and he pulled it off. However, I would be mad if he came back and got embarrased. Legends have nothing to prove to me, that's why the are legends. Ken would need to put himself under someone elses tutelage in order to grow as a fighter IMO. I don't think he will, and I think the game has passed his old style by. I don't want to see these guys end up like Ali and Holyfield.



Shamrock aint couture, it aint gonna happen. Bisping with tko/ko shamrock in round 1. Why doesnt anyone rate bisping on the ground, He's not a submission fighter but he trains in it everyday, he was able to get out of that kimura from sinosec. He's been taken down by a jj fighter in schafer but couldnt get submitted. He's got the skills to survive on the ground. If shamrocks best wepon at his age is pulling off the upset with a foot lock, what do you think bisping will do, just like tito did, train footlocks before their fight.
Real bad move for both fighters, if shamrock wants to fight again, fair play to him, but dont put him in with the next up and coming lh weight contender in bisping ????
Really peeeeeed off with silva on this one !!!!!
Ultimate_fighter
6/19/07 6:37:45PM
Bisping 3rd TKO.... This fight is gonna be awesome i think... better than the hamill fight, hamill aint ready to fight him yet...
Damien6663
6/19/07 8:32:24PM
Im really upset by this fight, im a die hard Ken Shamrock fan, he was the first MMA fighter i rooted for since UFC 1. Ken's skill set has grown over the years but with age his reaction time, and chin have gone down the tubes. It only takes a tap on the haw now a days to put ken out, the shots tito put him away with were not hard (meaning compared to a shot standing with ur hips and legs behind em).

Ken actually has better technique then bisping in every area of the game, cleaner striking, better wrestling, better submission skills, but at this age he can not compete with a prospect. They should setup Ken with winable fights, have him fight another legend. Gracie Shamrock III would possibly be the biggest selling ppv yet. Or why not sign Mark Coleman, or Tank for a "what if" super fight.

If silva puts this match together i think bisping will tko him pretty quickly, damn shame too that the ufc will throw one of its biggest ikons and pioneers out to the wolves.

War shamrock, im rooting for him.
hippysmacker
6/20/07 2:45:50AM
Just got this off UfC junkie via Dave Meltzzer at the wrestling observer. Meltzer is usually right. So I think the fights still on. I'm glad, I would prefer they had Shamrock fight someone else.

According to Meltzer:

Regarding rumors regarding the next UFC in London, England, Michael Bisping vs. Matt Hamill is still the scheduled match on that show. There are rumors regarding Bisping vs. Ken Shamrock, but that may have been discussed but it is not the current plan.
Sheddy
6/20/07 12:05:29PM
^ shame cus I'd much rather this fight than the Hamill one if I had to choose between the 2.
Rocketbusta
6/20/07 3:53:39PM
UFC just needs to make Bisbing/ Shamrock happen. I'd watch it.
keith-hackney1
6/20/07 5:17:58PM
We already know the ending though, bisping via tko/ko r1, same as tito/shamrock. No one wants to see that again.
I still believe the only reason kens back again is because if he can claw back a win, He's back for tito again, he said they've buried the hatchet, thats bollox, ken still hates him !!!!!
richieb19
6/20/07 5:37:36PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

We already know the ending though, bisping via tko/ko r1, same as tito/shamrock. No one wants to see that again.
I still believe the only reason kens back again is because if he can claw back a win, He's back for tito again, he said they've buried the hatchet, thats bollox, ken still hates him !!!!!

Thats not the case at all, infact Ken has recently said that Tito is just a fighter he can't beat, like Saku couldn't beat Wand... He wants to fight because he loves to fight, and the UFC has never had anybody draw more crowds than him...
Signal2112
6/20/07 5:38:59PM
I'd like to see Frye and Shamrock fight again!
vcr88
6/20/07 10:35:03PM
Well i think that Ken has a good chance of beating Bisping because although Bisping maybe the fresher and more younger fighter I still dont think he has the experience to fight a dangerous guy like Ken. Bisping will probably go in and start swinging like there's no tomorrow just like with sinosic but I think whats going to get him. Ken will catch him on one of his very sloppy punches and knock bisping to the ground and completely take him apart with his ground game. So this will all happen in the first round with Ken winning by submission. Of course if Ken takes longer than that then the fight might start going in Bispings favor. but still I think until Bisping can be a more careful fighter then he will not be able to be a great fighter in the UFC.
mma4life
6/20/07 11:25:36PM
thats what happens when u love something so much its hard to walk away and he loves mma
Signal2112
6/21/07 6:41:39AM
I don't think Bisping would take Shamrock lightly. They always say that the last thing to go is the punching power, and with 4 oz. gloves that knockout can creep up at any time!

Going into the fight Bisping would see that Shamrock is an experienced fighter, even if he is well past his prime, and thus, would probably play a more conservative game-let Ken wear himself out and once his is gassed, rush for the kill or pick him apart slowly. I think with Sinosic, Bisping might have taken him lightly, which wouldn't be hard to do.
Fanboy 1988
6/21/07 7:07:14AM
I'm not gonna count Ken out completly in this fight, he's still got a sick ankle lock and can throw a good punch but his big problem seems to be able to take a punch. Most of his recent losses came from an early tko, if he could soak some of Bisbings punches I could see him getting a KO, or if he can get around the gnp a possible submission.. But unfourtanitly I just don't see that happening, he may be one of the most skilled vertains but Knowledge of the sport will get you so far, unfourtanitly when age kicks in, it kicks in.

Sheddy
6/21/07 10:38:18AM

Posted by Signal2112

I think with Sinosic, Bisping might have taken him lightly, which wouldn't be hard to do.



I don't think Bisping took Sinosic lightly, but I do think he came out in the second thinking the fight was practically over.
vcr88
6/21/07 3:35:22PM
In all of Bispings fights hes just went in and swung wild. He has been lucky they have never put any experienced fighter or someone actually has some sort of punching power. Ken has both of them although he is not latter. And Bisping seems to have the same game plan with everyone and doesnt ever seem to change it so i dont see how you can say that hes going to be more cautious against someone like Ken Shamrock especially when he knows that ken has the record that he does lately and kens age. So again i see Bisping making that big mistake.
spider1179
6/21/07 5:20:16PM
What would Ken's motivation be for this fight? His legacy is already in question after his 3 loses to Tito. Another loss would absolutely destroy his legacy. I would be interested in seeing Hamil/Bisping. If Hamil had not been injured, they would have fought in the finals of TUF. It's interesting to see who would have really won.
hippysmacker
6/21/07 7:55:22PM
This is now officially a dream match and goes in the lounge. just got this off UFCjunkie.com. Bisping is officially fighting Hamill at UFC 75
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