Wrestling in MMA?

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Lay_N_Pray
3/28/07 5:36:48PM
I don't see why people bash wrestling so much in MMA. Is it boring? sure, sometimes it can be, but so can the first 3 quarter of an NBA game, or the instant replay in NFL, or the lack of action in the MLB, but I dont here people saying that MLB should go to a pitching machine that just throws balls out at rapid pace.

Wrestling is just as much as an art as Ju-Jitsu and Sambo and Muay Tai. There is never anyone saying...goodness I wish these Muay Tai guys would just stop throwing knees and elbows and punches and change their style.

If a wrestler can impose his will that means he is an excellent wrestler and a good fighter. O'Brien imposed his will on Herring, it was boring but I was floored by the way the kid just kept coming and grappling the hell out of someone who is a knockout machine.

I think we all have to remember MIXED in MMA and realize that yes some styles can be boring but when taking away the ground game and getting constant stand ups would kill the sport IMO and I feel it is worth sitting through and watching to see excellent wrestlers and excellent strikers have a battle of wills, no matter how "boring" it is.

Superbowls have been boring...I would like to continue to watch those to.
cowcatcher
3/28/07 5:40:58PM
i wrestled for a decade and a half and completely agree, except that i dont find those matches boring. to a casual fan or just someone with bloodlust i can see it being boring, but its a lot of hard work to move your body and someone weighing as much as you around for 15 minutes. i do understand the beauty that is the KO though and as a guy i think we have something wired in us that makes it appealing, but ill take my MMA mixed and watch in awe at these guys that are way more ballsy than me put it on the line for my entertainment
hippysmacker
3/28/07 5:44:17PM
I don'tr find it boring as long as the wrestler is active and trying to improve their position. It's the same for me if a guy stalls in BJJ. LnP bothers anyone I think.
randyleprechaun
3/28/07 5:50:40PM
Hey man i wouldn't say wrestlings boring as long as the practioner can mix it up on the feet aswell. Rather than just continually shooting all the time, looking for a take-down!

Wrestlers that have evolved into well-rounded mixed-martial-artists like Randy Couture, Dan Henderson and Matt Hughes are some of the most highly respected, decorated and entertaining atheletes in MMA today!
pv3Hpv3p
3/28/07 5:56:11PM
"I think we all have to remember MIXED in MMA"

I think you're statement applies to the other side of the arguement as well... Where since this is mixed martial arts, people are not just excpecting to see a wrestler vs kickboxer any more... They are expecting fighters to be diverse in what they do as appose to just using a single disipline, people enjoy well rounded fighters that can finish a fight...

In you're example you seem to miss one big point... No one minds when Tito wrestles someone to the ground and then comences to smash them until ref stoppage... And no one minds when CC or Chuck KO a guy...

But conversly it works the same way... Not many people appreciate the LnP finish like Obrien/Herring or Kos/Joslin because it takes our beloved MMA match and turns it into a point system ametuer wrestling comp...

But it works the same for striking... How much flac did BigTim get when he was just keeping people off him with the jab and riding out the decision? He kept winning (until Randy), but he wasn't appreciated for it... No one looked at his good hand position and decent foot movement or whatever... It was the same with Lennox Lewis in boxing... Great you can jab out a guy and win on pionts... But people want to see the finish...

Sorry about the long post, but I couldn't really shorten it up any...
Lay_N_Pray
3/28/07 6:04:55PM
You all bring up good points and I agree with you. When arguments are articulated the way all of you just repsonded it is clear to see the true point people try to make when they attack ground fighting.

Some arguments I have read on this board have not been as clear and that is why I started the thread.
Jeffanori-Gomi
3/30/07 12:18:00AM
Wrestling is an effective tool in MMA. But IMO wrestling can get a little boring.

I like basketball but I hate the way the Utah Jazz play it. I make no sense
deadcore
3/30/07 1:31:28AM
i love real wrestling so i will go with not boring
madmarck
3/30/07 7:36:52AM
Okay guys.
Wrestling is not alone in this. Any style in MMA can be boring of exciting for that matter.

Matt Hughes -Great Wrestling in MMA
BJ Penn- Great BJJ
Anderson Silva- Great Muay Thai


Tim Sylvia- Plodding 5 round fights filled with jabs
Chris Lytle- Lay and Praying 3 full rounds with Din Thomas
Travis Lutter- Controlling Pete Sell for 3 rounds to a dominating decision, but a uneventful one.



Some guys just have off nights. Some that is their style of winning.


Jake O'Brien was awesome agasint Heath Herring though. Not only did he take him down at ease. But he continually passed guard.
That is not something wrestlers with little MMA experince are known for. I give Jake Props. He conintually passed into Half guard and side control in that fight.
pv3Hpv3p
3/30/07 10:59:49AM

Posted by madmarck

Jake O'Brien was awesome agasint Heath Herring though. Not only did he take him down at ease. But he continually passed guard.
That is not something wrestlers with little MMA experince are known for. I give Jake Props. He conintually passed into Half guard and side control in that fight.



If only he could have done anything with his advanced positions...

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he is young and green yet...

But Herring kept giving him his back in that fight, just because it made it easier to try and escape to his feet... There was no real threat of being punished or subbed, so why not?

That and I wasn't impressed with Obrien's chin... Heath dropped him in the first round with a stiff jab, and then could have actually finished the fight after that big right hand in the 3rd, if the last round would have been a minute or so longer...
Ydoc
3/30/07 11:17:16AM
If Heath loses this next fight they should match him agianst Mir... promote as a fallen fighters fight.

Good point, but like others have said when you have the chance to sub or strike at least try to. My favorite Decision fight is Randy vs. Tito and on the other side of the token Rashad vs. Bonnar made me go to sleep. It got to the point where I was rooting for Bonnar to pull a James Irvin even though I'm a Rashad fan. And the big difference in both is Randy put on a wrestling clinic and Rashad wanted to ride out a win.
VanellaL47
4/14/07 4:19:06PM
wrestlings the shit
shinobi
4/15/07 5:33:25PM

Posted by Lay_N_Pray

I don't see why people bash wrestling so much in MMA. Is it boring? sure, sometimes it can be, but so can the first 3 quarter of an NBA game, or the instant replay in NFL, or the lack of action in the MLB, but I dont here people saying that MLB should go to a pitching machine that just throws balls out at rapid pace.

Wrestling is just as much as an art as Ju-Jitsu and Sambo and Muay Tai. There is never anyone saying...goodness I wish these Muay Tai guys would just stop throwing knees and elbows and punches and change their style.

If a wrestler can impose his will that means he is an excellent wrestler and a good fighter. O'Brien imposed his will on Herring, it was boring but I was floored by the way the kid just kept coming and grappling the hell out of someone who is a knockout machine.

I think we all have to remember MIXED in MMA and realize that yes some styles can be boring but when taking away the ground game and getting constant stand ups would kill the sport IMO and I feel it is worth sitting through and watching to see excellent wrestlers and excellent strikers have a battle of wills, no matter how "boring" it is.

Superbowls have been boring...I would like to continue to watch those to.




its not that wrestling is boring, its the fact some people like koscheck will lay and pray to avoid subs or sweeps. thats what makes it boring, if they'd attempt to pass guard or attempt to finish there'd be no problem. i dont like tito, but when he's on the ground he's active. thus exciting, koscheck, old rashad ( he's getting better ), are boring to watch, hell, even nate marquardt.
garrick
4/15/07 6:31:39PM
I think wrestlings a great sport, I've been doing it for awhile, but this is MMA. You have to mix it up, so it's exciting.
shinobi
4/15/07 7:25:45PM

Posted by garrick

I think wrestlings a great sport, I've been doing it for awhile, but this is MMA. You have to mix it up, so it's exciting.



exactly, i've been doing wrestling for more than 2 years, very exciting if done right. very effective. how else you going to take someone down other than judo throws? or control them? wrestling is a necesity.
Juggernaut
4/15/07 8:39:10PM

Posted by garrick

I think wrestlings a great sport, I've been doing it for awhile, but this is MMA. You have to mix it up, so it's exciting.



no, you do what you have to do to get the job done and win
garrick
4/16/07 11:08:36AM
True, wrestling is a very effective tool to take your opponent down and keep him down. You have to have some background in wrestling to suceed in this sports.
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