does wrestling matter if..
would getting into wrestling matter if your JJ is top notch... i have a buddy and i think his JiuJitsu is amazing and at the same time he knows wrestling takedowns,takedown defence,clinching techniques,etc (he knows the simple stuff from a (friend/books/online) Hes want to know if he should join wrestling..Common sense is yeah it would make you better (the wrestling workout,certaing little ground techniques,etc).but like i said he has the JJ, and the simple wrestling. But should he crowd his schedule up and join a wrestling school.. I explain to him my thoughts, but any thoughts from others..
Depends on his schedule and what he is looking at doing with his skills....if he wants to fight MMA then yes he should wrestle. It develops a strong core, high endurance and strength like you wouldn't belive. He would also learn about cutting weight (again imortant in MMA competition). If your buddy is training towards MMA he should definately consider the striking game too and may need to take some classes in that instead if his Jits game is really all that.
There's a reason JJ (amazing or not) guys have been beaten by wrestlers consistantly. Bottom position really isn't a position that is beneficial against good or, more likely, great wrestlers. Noone at a decent level of competition really pulls off subs from bottom these days, it's outdated.
They can always L&P a decision win and muscle out of subs. A lot of times JJ guys get winded faster as well.
I would say the friend if nothing else should work on a mean sprawl, clinch defence, and cage standup escape. If the friend wants to be a total beast wrestling is the way to go.
Neglecting striking is obviously a mistake but that the lower tier where I'm guessing he is he'll have plenty more time to evolve. If he goes to a pure wrestling school/ camp it will be very beneficial for MMA and even his BJJ game.
Wrestling is great and it's like it fill all the BJJ holes- control, strength, cardio. The wrestling to JJ transition is easier but he could be a beast.
edit- one more thing, while what I said before is proven, I cant think of anyone else but Diego Sanchez, but he was dominant until he fought top elite wrestlers. So your friend could probably do well with his current grappling skills if they are really that good but eventually he will need a great counter wrestling skillset. Eventually. And I still say wrestling (pure wrestling)
He has the conditiong ,strength ,etc. But technique wise..would he REALLY need it
Then it's essential to at LEAST get technique down on his counter wrestling. If he really didn't want to do the wrestling classes he should get in the cage with a good wrestler from his team and work on straight drills and defense with him and ask for pointers.
I wrestled for 4 years in high school and started training bjj after a taking a couple of years off. I wrestled for Bettendorf High School with Robbie Lawler (he was 135 lbs at the time) so it was a quality program, but I wasn't particularly good. Wrestling and bjj are both very important in my opinion. Wrestling will help him develop his top game, and your take downs can never be too good. When I've been beaten in jiu jitsu competition, it's been by better wrestlers that have gotten dominant top control, and they're a bitch to sweep because good wrestlers have a really solid base. Wrestlers can develop certain tendencies that can leave them vulnerable particularly if you put them on their back, but if he's got a solid jiu jitsu background, that shouldn't be a concern. And just to throw it out there, I like training bjj about 50thousand times more than I ever liked wrestling. It's way more fun, and that to me is the most important thing.
two comments on previous posts...subs from the bottom are most definitely not outdated...just ask cb, and he is a top tier wrestler. and yes training bjj is a million times more fun than wrestling imho
if your friend is serious it would greatly help him to take wrestling. a lot of the bjj guys that really excel at the top levels have great wrestling to go with their BJJ. wrestling will allow you to dictate where the fight takes place in a way that bjj will not. kos is a great example of that. if he wants he can use his wrestling to take the fight to the mat. if he wants to stay standing then he can force people into a jab fest because they cant take him down.
I'll probably end up posting this 1,000 times in my career here--but wrestling is a good investment for any fighter, not because of the specific techniques that are taught, but because it is the best organized, most competitive, and least expensive amateur combat sport around. There are more good coaches, organized teams and practices, good competitiors near your weight and tournaments and school schedules to get dozens of matches in a single year. Plus the organization of the sport makes it difficult to duck good competition as you progress (i.e. city high school tourney < state tourney < college D3 < college D1 < all-american D1 < olympic qualifier < olympic medalist, etc.). Sports like Karate, BJJ and Muay Thai (in the U.S.) don't have nearly that structure. It's no surprise that what comes out of this system are, on average, the best athletes in MMA. It's not the magic techniques of 3/4 nelsons and fireman's carries that make them this way, it's the weeding out process that the well-organized competition naturally imposes on the participants.
And did I mentioin that it's free in jr. high and high school?
Abso-*******-lutely. Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza trains wrestling for God's sake.
This is a no question, no argument, no brainer type quandry. Landing the shot be it double leg or single leg= better positioning. Hitting the sprawl and whizzers for takedown defense = better positioning. Getting the whizzer and turning the corner on a scramble = better positioning. It's free, it ups your cardio and strength (no matter who you are changing your workout to something different to challenge your body will up your cardio and strength as long as you put serious effort into it. Especially if you've never done wrestling and you start wrestling)
I'm going to go with an Omega type quote here and say it- "If anybody thinks wrestling isn't important they need to be shot."
Even the topmost of the top tier guys say that wrestling is absolutely essential.
For the record- subs from the bottom are far from outdated- See Shinya Aoki, Nick Diaz, Antonio Noguiera, Amir Sadollah, Dean Lister, Anderson Silva, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. .... etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. .... etc. etc. etc. etc. and the stupid sign that you do with decimals to show an ever repeating number.
Actually as I open my school here in the coming months one of the coaches Iam going to be lookig for is a wrestling coach. I think wrestling mixed with Jujitsu, Judo, and Muay Thai will give a fighter just about every skill set they could need... I never took wrestling back in school and now I wish I did.. luckily I did learn some things cause my brother was on the team so I worked out with him.. and a friend who was on the team cause I was hte only one who could beat him but I had to use alot of my Jujitsu to do so.. stuff he did not have to worry about in wrestling... I just wished I paid more attention to it. but I want to make sure my fighters who did not get into wrestling in high school and jr high get the skills needed to help them.
my son has been taking BJJ with me for a few months now and ive been teaching him wrestling for years(hes almost 14, and i was a HS coach/state placing wrestler for 3 years) and the thing im starting to worry about is that he may get comfortable going to his back which will cost him points come wrestling season. i never took BJJ in HS and when wrestling the thought of going to my back never crossed my mind, but the more my son gets comfortable with his JJ the more i think i should have just had him join a club for wrestling rather than JJ. the point is coming from BJJ to wrestling, you have to make sure not to fall into old habits when you get into trouble because it can cost you a match, so the switch from wrestling to JJ is much easier for competition IMO. the cardio, and grappling experience that your friend will gain will be huge assets, but he has to be very disciplined when he competes because old habits tend to die hard.