Women should be able to compete against men in MMA

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anne85
11/20/08 2:47:41PM
Have any of you guys seen the size of people from way back? They were not tall but, darn, they were built like brick walls, even the women. Women were in most communities expected to be able to fight and defend not just from humans but, from animals. They had to, it was not choice. Even here in the USA as we were spreading across the country. Ever take a look at the muscle structure in those old photos of women? Most of those women could knock just about any modern man's lights out. Just about all had to know how to shoot to kill. I would imagine with the proper training, many women would be able to compete against men in anything.

The only reason more women are not allowed to compete with men in sports and fighting is because of a false sense of modern protection. Protect the weaker female.. Have you not seen women fighting each other? Its far more bloody and nasty then any male fight.
emfleek
11/20/08 2:49:41PM
No they shouldn't. Bottom line.
artofdefense
11/20/08 2:57:21PM
I think you have spent too much time in a women's studies class.

Women are not allowed to compete against men because all training being equal, a similar sized man will always be considerably stronger than his female counterpart. This is not to say that all men are better than all women at MMA, or are stronger, just that the guys who are strongest, or best at MMA, will be a great deal stronger and better at MMA than the strongest, best women.

But I could be wrong.... let's take a survey: Who thinks Carano or Cyborg vs. Tapia or Torres would go well for either female?
tdietel01
11/20/08 3:05:31PM
no no and no. there is equal training in basketball but you will never see a woman play against men. same goes for football or hockey. It isnt sexist it is the way it is. combat sports would be brutal!
stock
11/20/08 3:09:06PM

Posted by tdietel01

no no and no. there is equal training in basketball but you will never see a woman play against men. same goes for football or hockey. It isnt sexist it is the way it is. combat sports would be brutal!



Agreed.

Take Va-Gina for example.
Although she is arguably the best fighter in the world (for a girl), I think many people on this forum could finish her pretty easily.
Hendo67
11/20/08 3:11:41PM
This is an absolute joke topic, right?

Women and Men do not belong fighting each other, It will turn society upside down.
Think about it, if a young kid turns on TV and he sees a Guy totally beating the daylights out of a woman, what do you think that kid will likely do? He might go beat up a girl at school, it's not right.

If this was ever to happen (which it wont, thank god) you'd see so much more unneeded abuse between men and woman all over.
AchillesHeel
11/20/08 3:19:03PM

Posted by artofdefense

Women are not allowed to compete against men because all training being equal, a similar sized man will always be considerably stronger than his female counterpart.


So fighters need to possess similar strength now? Do you even watch MMA?


Posted by artofdefense

This is not to say that all men are better than all women at MMA, or are stronger, just that the guys who are strongest, or best at MMA, will be a great deal stronger and better at MMA than the strongest, best women.


And..? The strongest, most skilled man will be stronger and better at MMA than... wait for it... the other man.


Posted by artofdefense

But I could be wrong.... let's take a survey: Who thinks Carano or Cyborg vs. Tapia or Torres would go well for either female?


Let's take another survey, while we're at it: Who thinks Gerald Harris vs. Anderson Silva or Assuerio Silva vs. Fedor Emelianenko would go well for either challenger?



No offense to the OP, but this can only go downhill. The reason women can't fight men is because people would lose their minds over it, and insist that sexism is perfectly natural and reasonable.
AchillesHeel
11/20/08 3:20:23PM

Posted by Hendo67

This is an absolute joke topic, right?

Women and Men do not belong fighting each other, It will turn society upside down.
Think about it, if a young kid turns on TV and he sees a Guy totally beating the daylights out of a woman, what do you think that kid will likely do? He might go beat up a girl at school, it's not right.

If this was ever to happen (which it wont, thank god) you'd see so much more unneeded abuse between men and woman all over.


Senator McCain, is that you?
tdietel01
11/20/08 3:21:23PM
also, most women do not have K.O. power. that men do. I dont think i have even seen a ko in womens mma (although i havnt seen a whole lot of womens mma). I mean ko not tko btw. example....... gina carano puts on 15 lbs and fights sean sherk (I would LnP the whole fight ) There is no way she would even have a punchers chance
Hendo67
11/20/08 3:23:00PM

Posted by tdietel01

also, most women do not have K.O. power. that men do. I dont think i have even seen a ko in womens mma (although i havnt seen a whole lot of womens mma). I mean ko not tko btw. example....... gina carano puts on 15 lbs and fights sean sherk (I would LnP the whole fight ) There is no way she would even have a punchers chance



Gina basically weighs 155, she has to cut quite a bit of weight to make most of her fights.
Sherk would one punch her, easily.
AchillesHeel
11/20/08 3:25:22PM

Posted by tdietel01

also, most women do not have K.O. power. that men do. I dont think i have even seen a ko in womens mma (although i havnt seen a whole lot of womens mma). I mean ko not tko btw. example....... gina carano puts on 15 lbs and fights sean sherk (I would LnP the whole fight ) There is no way she would even have a punchers chance


So now we have Carano fighting above her normal weight class as an example of why women shouldn't compete against men?



I came into this thread ready to discuss why I thought women fighting men would be a bad idea, but you guys are convincing me that I should support the idea.
cowcatcher
11/20/08 3:29:40PM
i thought the womens lib movement died in the 70's
holt8081
11/20/08 3:30:54PM

Posted by stock


Posted by tdietel01

no no and no. there is equal training in basketball but you will never see a woman play against men. same goes for football or hockey. It isnt sexist it is the way it is. combat sports would be brutal!



Agreed.

Take Va-Gina for example.
Although she is arguably the best fighter in the world (for a girl), I think many people on this forum could finish her pretty easily.

ya id finish her alright
MMAcca
11/20/08 3:37:48PM
Nope.
tdietel01
11/20/08 3:39:16PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by tdietel01

also, most women do not have K.O. power. that men do. I dont think i have even seen a ko in womens mma (although i havnt seen a whole lot of womens mma). I mean ko not tko btw. example....... gina carano puts on 15 lbs and fights sean sherk (I would LnP the whole fight ) There is no way she would even have a punchers chance


So now we have Carano fighting above her normal weight class as an example of why women shouldn't compete against men?



I came into this thread ready to discuss why I thought women fighting men would be a bad idea, but you guys are convincing me that I should support the idea.



ok let her fight faber. same ending to that fight. find a 280 lbs woman to fight lesnar while we are at it. same weight. same results all across the board in any weight class.
anne85
11/20/08 3:45:14PM
Most of you obviously have not been around enough women, otherwise you would know how violent fights between women can be compared to fights between men.
AchillesHeel
11/20/08 3:45:25PM

Posted by tdietel01

ok let her fight faber. same ending to that fight. find a 280 lbs woman to fight lesnar while we are at it. same weight. same results all across the board in any weight class.


So let's see if I have this right: Because Faber would probably defeat Carano, no woman should ever be allowed to compete against any man. Is that your "argument"?
gravy13
11/20/08 3:46:07PM
!!!!!
dannyfrank
11/20/08 3:48:16PM
no, women cannot compete against men that are trained equally. take my older sister, who is a hockey star at her school for the girls team. she works just as hard, if not harder than most guys at hockey, but even she admits that she will never have the ability to compete against them. sorry, but it's just the way it is. now, im not saying all men would beat all women. if i fought gina, she would definitly kick my ass. however, she wouldn't last two seconds with a decent man in the UFC
dannyfrank
11/20/08 3:50:12PM

Posted by anne85

Most of you obviously have not been around enough women, otherwise you would know how violent fights between women can be compared to fights between men.



the only reason that most girl fights are more violent is because they scratch and pull hair. the end
tdietel01
11/20/08 6:24:25PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by tdietel01

ok let her fight faber. same ending to that fight. find a 280 lbs woman to fight lesnar while we are at it. same weight. same results all across the board in any weight class.


So let's see if I have this right: Because Faber would probably defeat Carano, no woman should ever be allowed to compete against any man. Is that your "argument"?



YES!! basically that is what i am saying. In a contact or combat sport they should play with the same sex. I am not saying golf or bowling. but football hockey boxing wrestling and mma are no go's for women. I do not see a woman taking a hit from a 250 lb linebacker and playing for very long.

as for mma NO woman will ever beat a man that is equally trained!
roadking95th
11/20/08 7:40:10PM
I think AchillesHeel is slyly onto something here. If others are correct in saying that a women would never beat a top man then she shouldn't compete then like wise we would have to kick a lot of men out too. Martial Arts and Sports are more about competing then winning.

That being said, the sexist in me says no

I had a girl who wrestled for my school, who I helped coach a little. She was excellent technique wise, but she would just get smoked by the stronger boys once she got to HS. Now mind you, these weren't even men yet. Their strength would only increase for another 10-15 years.
Biggz
11/20/08 8:10:31PM
please tell me this is a joke!
Rush
11/20/08 8:12:23PM

Women should be able to compete against men in MMA



No, for many reasons including social and physical factors.



Men are physically stronger, faster and more explosive. If you take any elite level of sport that requires these attributes, the men always have more impressive records than the women. Just watch a woman's sport then watch the men's equivalent (hockey, baseball, football, MMA) in every case the men are more intense (speed, strength, etc)

Do not misunderstand, this does not mean that if you stuck Kris cyborg in with another man, the man would always win. But that is not the point. Also, the point that the thread starter tried to make about women being tough is moot because it lacks a point of reference. What I mean by a point of reference is this: There are tons of women out there that can run a marathon faster than I can. However, you have to compare people on the same competitive level. If you look at the top 10 marathon runners for almost any given race (run), most if not all of them will be men. What should be compared is the top 10 men vs. the top 10 women. Just for fun I will use the Scotiabank marathon in Toronto about two months ago.

The top 20 times are all men. The top ten females are ranked in the 21-40th place section.

So if you compare these elite women runners to the sub-elite or competitive men, then yes, the women are better. But if you compare elite to elite, then there is no mistake the men are more capable.

Going back to MMA. If we compare elite level fighters (men vs. women) there is no way I see a woman being able to consistently compete with the men. She may win a fight or two, but she will end up losing most if not all of the time.

The concept of technique over strength. This thing always comes up in these types of debates. The truth is, technique will work over muscle, to a certain degree. Likewise, muscle will be able to power through technique to a certain degree. Then there is a grey area in the middle. Technique vs. muscle is not black and white folks. If you look at most if not all MMA champions, they possess both strength and technique. If you take a man and woman with equal technique, the advantage will be given to the man.

The other aspect is the social one. I don't agree with it, but it is the case in society that it is more acceptable for a woman to hit another woman (or man), but it is unacceptable for a man to hit a woman. Because of this, the mass (men and women) would never condone an MMA fight between a man and woman. The last thing that MMA needs is another stigma.

What I find funny is the feminist attitude that woman should be able to compete on par with men. In this case a combat sport. Yet, the these same feminists would be the last ones to jump in the octagon against a man if given the opportunity.
dannyfrank
11/20/08 8:45:52PM

Posted by Rush


Women should be able to compete against men in MMA



No, for many reasons including social and physical factors.



Men are physically stronger, faster and more explosive. If you take any elite level of sport that requires these attributes, the men always have more impressive records than the women. Just watch a woman's sport then watch the men's equivalent (hockey, baseball, football, MMA) in every case the men are more intense (speed, strength, etc)

Do not misunderstand, this does not mean that if you stuck Kris cyborg in with another man, the man would always win. But that is not the point. Also, the point that the thread starter tried to make about women being tough is moot because it lacks a point of reference. What I mean by a point of reference is this: There are tons of women out there that can run a marathon faster than I can. However, you have to compare people on the same competitive level. If you look at the top 10 marathon runners for almost any given race (run), most if not all of them will be men. What should be compared is the top 10 men vs. the top 10 women. Just for fun I will use the Scotiabank marathon in Toronto about two months ago.

The top 20 times are all men. The top ten females are ranked in the 21-40th place section.

So if you compare these elite women runners to the sub-elite or competitive men, then yes, the women are better. But if you compare elite to elite, then there is no mistake the men are more capable.

Going back to MMA. If we compare elite level fighters (men vs. women) there is no way I see a woman being able to consistently compete with the men. She may win a fight or two, but she will end up losing most if not all of the time.

The concept of technique over strength. This thing always comes up in these types of debates. The truth is, technique will work over muscle, to a certain degree. Likewise, muscle will be able to power through technique to a certain degree. Then there is a grey area in the middle. Technique vs. muscle is not black and white folks. If you look at most if not all MMA champions, they possess both strength and technique. If you take a man and woman with equal technique, the advantage will be given to the man.

The other aspect is the social one. I don't agree with it, but it is the case in society that it is more acceptable for a woman to hit another woman (or man), but it is unacceptable for a man to hit a woman. Because of this, the mass (men and women) would never condone an MMA fight between a man and woman. The last thing that MMA needs is another stigma.

What I find funny is the feminist attitude that woman should be able to compete on par with men. In this case a combat sport. Yet, the these same feminists would be the last ones to jump in the octagon against a man if given the opportunity.



great post rush. gotta spread the love though
RiseUp21
11/20/08 9:09:29PM

Posted by emfleek

No they shouldn't. Bottom line.



/thread
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
11/20/08 10:27:15PM
1/10
higdon10
11/20/08 10:35:53PM
What everyone else said.
Rush
11/20/08 10:53:26PM

Posted by anne85

Most of you obviously have not been around enough women, otherwise you would know how violent fights between women can be compared to fights between men.




Add to my post above.

Violence has nothing to do with whether or not you will be succesful in MMA. Something you may or may not know about men is that in most of the cases where a man is "beat up" it's because he didn't fight back 100% because he would most certainly be charged.
StriderXero
11/21/08 6:25:52AM
Soccer is a very very physicaly demanding sport. I have never seen a pro women's team against a pro men's team. Women cant compete physically against men in that sport. Imagine a women getting side tackled by a pro european soccer player.......That would be harsh.

Now imagine if women competed in PRIDE with the soccer kicks and head stomps. Where guys faced much bigger opponents sometimes. IMO there's no logic in women competing with men in MMA......................Unless they were actually born men. Like Rupaul........I think that lady would give Anderson Silva a whooping.
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