Wins in Pride/UFC you consider fluke wins

Got inspired by a good thread on sherdog.net and got curious what your opinions about this were.

Wins I consider fluke wins are:
Coleman´s win over Shogun
Yamamoto´s win over Kerr
Vitale´s win over Lindland

Another fight that comes to mind is Terrell - Smith but that result was more because of a bad call by the ref than just fluke.

Sokoudjou vs Little nog
Randlemen vs Crocop 1
Coleman vs Shogun
Vitale vs Lindland

I wouldnt say CroCop vs Randleman was a fluke, will it ever happen again? Probably not, but he still threw the punch and it landed.

I would say Lindland knocking himself out was a fluke, and Shogun breaking his arm is another one.

Anderson Silvas wins over Chris Leben and Rich Franklin

lauzon vs. jens pulver for cryin out loud

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Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi

Anderson Silvas wins over Chris Leben and Rich Franklin

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good one

Like wkm I find it hard to consider Soko and Randleman´s KOs lucky. They train MMA. They train to knock people out and that's what they did by throwing those punches.

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Posted by Stickan

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Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi

Anderson Silvas wins over Chris Leben and Rich Franklin

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good one

Like wkm I find it hard to consider Soko and Randleman´s KOs lucky. They train MMA. They train to knock people out and that's what they did by throwing those punches.

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I'm glad someone picked up on my joke!

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Posted by Stickan

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Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi

Anderson Silvas wins over Chris Leben and Rich Franklin

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good one

Like wkm I find it hard to consider Soko and Randleman´s KOs lucky. They train MMA. They train to knock people out and that's what they did by throwing those punches.

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So only people slamming/tripping themselfs into knockout/injury counts as a fluke?

IMO accidents count as flukes. Randleman tried to hit CroCop´s head with that left. Coleman didn't intend to trip Shogun so that he would fall and break his arm.

TITO ORTIZ VS KEN SHAMROCK 1!!! FOR GODS SAKE!! JEEZE!


JUST KIDDIN ALL, THAT WAS A BEAT DOWN

Cro Cop expected Randleman to shoot that's why he lowered his guard to sprawl but got hit (hard) by Randleman, it was no fluke.

Lauzon's victory over Pulver was no fluke either (similar to the above explanation). Although Pulver was not in the right mentality during that fight so I guess you could argue that it was a "fluke." Meh, Pulver is not the same since fighting in PRIDE and being KO'd by Gomi.

Man, it is hard to define what a "fluke" win is ... I suppose it is a lucky punch since its rare for people to actually jump into a triangle choke. Then again, is it considered luck if you threw a punch with the intent of knocking someone out?

A win caused by a strike that I would count as a fluke though is TK against Fedor since he clipped him with an illegal blow (elbow) and his intention was hitting him with the hand.
That's outside of UFC/Pride though.

I have to say there are no real fluke wins if someone actually trains MMA, just highly unlikely outcomes sometimes.

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Posted by Northrend

Sokoudjou vs Little nog
Randlemen vs Crocop 1
Coleman vs Shogun
Vitale vs Lindland

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Your last two I agree with, the first two I don't. When you throw the punch and it connects, lights out.

If Lindland's loss to Vitale is a fluke then so is Arona's to Shogun. If you throw someone and they shift their weight so you land on your head that's not a fluke, especially with that type of throw.

If you break your arm posting that's not a fluke either, there's a good reason they train you not to do that in Judo when you're being thrown.

If you get KO'ed because someone throws a punch at your jawline that's not a fluke either.

A fluke was BJ seperating his ribs taking Matt's back. There wasn't any precedent for it.

Another fluke (albeit in Abu Dhabi) was Chris Brennan seperating his rib when Marcelo Garcia armbarred him. The win wasn't a fluke but the method was.

Yamamoto's win over Kerr was a fluke, Kerr has been wrestling for ages and a double leg takedown doesn't get you KOed.

Mirko's win over Barnett in the first fight was a Fluke. How often do you break someone's arm with an overhook?

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Posted by Stickan

IMO accidents count as flukes. Randleman tried to hit CroCop´s head with that left. Coleman didn't intend to trip Shogun so that he would fall and break his arm.

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Coleman did intend to take Shogun down, and it is expected if you post like that that you can break your arm. Arona didn't intend to injure Overeem's knee with his kick, he just intended to hit it really hard, but it's expected if you kick someone's knee really hard that it will break at least some of the time.

The definition most people seem to use for fluke is the favourite losing.

What's more flukey, Randleman KOing Cro Cop or Cro Cop guillotining Randleman?

Fedor/TK was a fluke, TK wasn't trying to throw the elbow. Nog/Fedor 2 was also a fluke, unless Nog was trying to headbutt. Faircloth/Sakara was also a fluke, but again was declared No Contest.

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Posted by migo

If you break your arm posting that's not a fluke either, there's a good reason they train you not to do that in Judo when you're being thrown.

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It's not like he was violently thrown to the mat. Old people fall harder than that slipping on ice without sustaining such damage... well at least most do. I'm sure just like Kerr has been wrestling for ages, Shogun has fallen on mats for ages, being tripped sparring muay thai or taken down when grappling.
How often does something like that happen? His arm was is horrible shape. That's a fluke to me.

let me start a flame war and say

gomi vs diaz

( i expect ppl to start realizing i am an instigator now )

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Posted by loller90278

let me start a flame war and say

gomi vs diaz

( i expect ppl to start realizing i am an instigator now )

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No flaming here, I can see what you mean.

Gomi was lucky the fight wasn't stopped late in the 1st when he looked like a drunk punching in the air and then barely knowing where his corner was.

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Posted by Stickan

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Posted by migo

If you break your arm posting that's not a fluke either, there's a good reason they train you not to do that in Judo when you're being thrown.

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It's not like he was violently thrown to the mat. Old people fall harder than that slipping on ice without sustaining such damage... well at least most do. I'm sure just like Kerr has been wrestling for ages, Shogun has fallen on mats for ages, being tripped sparring muay thai or taken down when grappling.
How often does something like that happen? His arm was is horrible shape. That's a fluke to me.

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It happens in wrestling matches. If you can replicate it in some way it's not a fluke. You have to ask yourself how the hell Barnett broke his arm, you don't have to ask yourself how Shogun broke his. It's clear, he posted. Just like you get KOed by dropping your guard. Wrestlers don't KO themselves on double leg takedowns, it does happen with upper body throws.

I have a major problem with the term fluke. I'm glad to see most of you agree that a KO is not a fluke. It is more about accidents, like the Lindland incident. The Kerr self KO is even more arguable, on the same grounds as the Shogun armbreak (those guys both know well enough how to handle those falls). Rarely will you ever see me use the term myself. Unlikely (even a 1 out of 100 chance) isn't a fluke, just unexpected things happen. I also don't think the BJ rib separation was a fluke, injuries being the cause for the end of a fight is very common- you're a fighter for god's sake, you're gonna get hurt- it shouldn't take away from that person's victory.

I also wanna add that even if you do count unlikely KOs, noone knows enough about Sokoudjou yet to know what he's capable of. We may look at his loss, one day, as being a guy just acclimating hiself to the fight game (like Sylvia's loss to Jorge Rivera).

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Posted by Stickan

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Posted by loller90278

let me start a flame war and say

gomi vs diaz

( i expect ppl to start realizing i am an instigator now )

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No flaming here, I can see what you mean.

Gomi was lucky the fight wasn't stopped late in the 1st when he looked like a drunk punching in the air and then barely knowing where his corner was.

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made me chuckle, lol props

Lauzon and Sokoudou are too green to tell if they were fluke, time will tell if they got lucky or have real skills. (IMO Lauzon does, I've seen some of his fights)

Shogun/Coleman for sure

Sokoudjou over Lil Nog.

The Shogun loss was probably more of a fluke though.

I've got to throw in Lutter vs Eastman... It seemed like a glancing blow that came off of the opposite side of Marvin's face... And Eastman had admitted to being KO'd in training just before the fight...

I don't want to take anything away from Travis, but the look of surprise on his face, kind of confirmed it to me...

Chris Leben Beating Partick Cote comes to mind.
And how bout Leben beating Jorge Rivera while we are at it. He got really lucky there.
I think Drew Fickett beatin KOS was pretty lucky. almost 3 full rounds of Josh on top beating down on him. With like 30 seconds left, ref stands em up, Drew throws a kick as Josh is going for a take down, Knee to chin = Kos down, Fickett jumped on his back and sunk in a RNC. Fight over with 14 secods left. Twas Amazing finish.

james lee vs travis wiuff
one (lucky) blow to lead an onslaught

Tito v.s Chuck 2
I thought that the stoppage was dumb... but hey so refs in UFC are terriable... Big John is sweet tho....

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Posted by hippysmacker

I have to say there are no real fluke wins if someone actually trains MMA, just highly unlikely outcomes sometimes.

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exactly

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Posted by Ultimate_fighter

Tito v.s Chuck 2
I thought that the stoppage was dumb... but hey so refs in UFC are terriable... Big John is sweet tho....

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tito chuck 2 is a fluke?? no way. tito was lucky it wasn't stopped in the 1st.