Whats next for Big Nog and Wandy?

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Hendo67
12/28/08 4:10:56AM
Well, as a huge Wandy and Nog fan i am saddened, who would have though that Frank MURR would be the man who finishes Nog? not me.
It's funny how his bandwagon has grown, and people are saying "HE LOOKED SO AMAZING TONIGHT, OMG". I don't think he looked that great at all, i think he looked decent at best, It was Nog who looked absolutely terrible.

Now, i rank Wandy as my number 2 fighter (favorites)...with that being said, i truly believe he may be done... I think that his last 3 KO's have been so brutal that it may impact him to the point of serious damage. I feel for the guy because he has a heart of a warrior, and is always willing to compete with the best of them.


What are your thoughts, do you think the same as me with Both fighters seemingly reaching the end of their careers?
mentalcase
12/28/08 4:19:19AM
i want nog to fight couture
and wandy to fight Luis Cane
Wolfenstein
12/28/08 4:25:28AM
I think a good opponent would be Thiago Silva for Wanderlei, and it would be another matchup of bad blood. I don't think he's done yet.

Nog I'm not so sure. I've never seen Nog unprepared, but that's what it looked like to me. He just didn't seem to have any gameplan. It was sad to see one of my favorites perform so poorly. I hope he can come back and overcome the odds once again. Give him Randy Couture.
Khaos
12/28/08 4:33:33AM
I love both fighters, they some of my favorites, but I think they should both retire, NOG for good, maybe Wandy could make a comeback after time off, but I think they should retire.
prie5t
12/28/08 8:57:51AM
As for Wanderlei i'm not so sure he's quite shot, his recent KO loses have all been off shots that have been delivered with the intention of being a knock out blow, it's not like he's getting putting on his ass by jabs also he's fallen short against legit top 10 guys it's not like there scrubs. If he were losing against the Shafers, Sinosics and Sean Salmons of the worlds etc (basically any guy you'd think the Silva of old would normally walk through) maybe i'd be alittle more worried about him.


Nogueria though..........people talk about how much punishment Silva has taken over the years but it's nothing in comparision to Nogueira, This fella has taken beating after beating over the years so maybe things have finally caught up with him. I don't recall what shape he was in in his last few fights in Pride but since coming to the UFC he's looked podgy, last night along with the Herring and Sylvia fights he was flat footed moved straight backwards to get out of the way of punches and Mir wobbled and dropped him with shots I don't think would have necessarily hurt him a year or two ago.
During the countdown show Mir comments on how Nogueria's slowing down etc and they cut to Nog running on the beach and he's almost hobbling along rather than running, I brushed it off but after the fight I remeber thinking maybe it was a sign showing Nogueria is actually starting to break down.

One thing that alot of people are coming to terms with this morning is that we'll now look at Nogueria as mortal.
coldchillin
12/28/08 9:09:14AM
I hate to say that Minotauro looks a little bit worn down from all the wars he has been in but he definitely does. He still has a big money fight with Couture that can go down and I'm still very interested in seeing these two fight coming off of their big losses.

As for Wanderlei, he's still an entertaining fighter who is going to make any fighter he faces really have to fight him. He's always going to press the action... the Cane kid wouldn't be a bad fight, throw Vera in there and let's see if Vera can respond or if it's time for the UFC to cut Vera all together. The winner of Machida-Thiago Silva wouldn't be a bad idea either especially since the UFC is content on not giving Machida a title shot. I'm pretty sure the UFC gives Rampage the first shot at Rashad.
Playground_Samurai
12/28/08 9:54:36AM
For everyone in this thread who says Frank didn't look good, it was just that Nog looked terrible, that's just wrong. Nog looked the same in this fight as he has in many fights through out his career. He's known for getting the crap kicked out of him and then making a miraculous comeback and defeat his opponent. The only difference this time, was that Frank didn't give him the chance to come back. Frank got the job done. Trying to take credit away from him and this win is flat out disrespectful.
Playground_Samurai
12/28/08 10:02:27AM

Posted by Khaos

I love both fighters, they some of my favorites, but I think they should both retire, NOG for good, maybe Wandy could make a comeback after time off, but I think they should retire.



His first loss in over two years and his first time ever being finished, and you think he should retire?

I agree with some of the others above. I'd like to see Randy and Nog go at it. It makes perfect sense right now since alot of people already wanted this fight to happen before and now they're both coming off losses to the champ and interim champ.

jocksmall
12/28/08 10:30:14AM
both of those guys are true warriors who i believe will fight until nobody will pay to see them. i think that nog didnt look right, it looked like mir was leaving himself open coming str8 in with combos and nog never adjusted which is unusual. wandy fights wars and when you fight that way this happens. he can still beat anyone, but the original post is true he has taken alot of damage but maybe a happy ending isnt his destiny. i dont want to see his demise but its what i see happening to him. we all would love to see him fight any of the top guys because its always a great fight.
Twenty20Dollars
12/28/08 11:43:51AM
Yeah Nog could either fight Couture or Gonzaga. Or someone lower. Who knows though.

Wandy vs Houston Alexander, rematch with Liddell or James Irvin whenever he's done with that suspension.
higdon10
12/28/08 12:01:33PM
I think that we will see Nog and Couture fight. As for Wand, possibly another fight with Dan Henderson? His situation is a little more complicated, and I have no clue who he will be fighting. Another possibility is Stephan Bonnar after/if he defeats Jon Jones.
Jackelope
12/28/08 12:27:26PM
I'd love to see Rampage smash Evans, but I feel like the winner of Thiago Silva vs. Lyoto Machida deserves it more. One could argue the legitimacy of Rampage vs. Luis Cane or Rampage vs. the winner of Hendo vs. Franklin. All are interesting matchups, and all deserve their fair mention.

I like Wandy vs. Luis Cane to legitimize Cane's standing, but I hesitate to throw Wandy to the wolves after a vicious KO like that. Cane is no joke. Fact is, there are no easy matchups in the upper echelon of LHW, and even in the "middle echelon". The matchup of Wandy vs. Liddell could be another slug fest like the first one, but I don't feel that it moves either fighter in the rankings no matter who comes out on top. The same wolves will be waiting in the woods when either of these two emerge from that den, and the matchups are getting less and less favorable for both of them. I think they could still have some good fights, but I don't see a win in many of them.

As for Big Nog- sure, have him fight Randy. I've always wanted to see that fight. However, if Mir was able to avoid the ground and outbox Nog, what will Randy do? I think Nog did look bad, and I hate to see Nog lose. (not taking anything away from Mir since I've always been a big fan, and he looked good) I'm not sure there's much left for Nog in all honesty. He's faced the best and he's been one of the best for a long time. I just don't see favorable matchups for him in the division as it stands. The competition's striking is getting better and better, and the wrestling is good enough for them all to keep it standing. Unless you found someone dumb enough to go to the ground with Nog then it's not looking pretty. To add to that- Nog has almost always "lost" his fights until he sneaks in that finish. It's just that now people know you gotta stay off the ground, and as long as UFC rules favor a standup and 5 min rounds, it looks ugly for Nog in that regard.

I just couldn't stand to see either of these two beloved competitors falter, and I fear that this is what lies down the road for each of them.
jocka
12/28/08 12:29:02PM

Posted by gspfan

For everyone in this thread who says Frank didn't look good, it was just that Nog looked terrible, that's just wrong. Nog looked the same in this fight as he has in many fights through out his career. He's known for getting the crap kicked out of him and then making a miraculous comeback and defeat his opponent. The only difference this time, was that Frank didn't give him the chance to come back. Frank got the job done. Trying to take credit away from him and this win is flat out disrespectful.



Am with you on this one Frank's hands looked very good yesterday that job uppercut kick combo was working for him, i was very impressed. It was so smart to stand up when i went to the floor Frank did everything right yesterday.
imanidiot777
12/28/08 1:06:57PM
Noguiera vs. Couture for sure would still be interesting, I'd have to go with Randy though.

Wanderlei's situation is going to be complicated. Since the winner of the Henderson vs. Franklin fight will be involved in TUF they will be off limits for awhile and I'm guessing they will be at MW against Bisping? Wanderlei should get the loser of that fight. If Machida beats Thiago he should get a title shot and if Thiago beats Machida then Thiago should fight Rampage for the next title shot and Machida should fight Luis Cane.
nickcuc547
12/28/08 1:09:31PM
both guys definitely look to be on the down side of their careers, but both still have plenty of big fights. I would love to see randy vs. nog, and any time wandy fights people are going to want to see it. I think luis cane would be a good opponent for him, but he could really fight anybody.
nickcuc547
12/28/08 1:11:12PM

Posted by Wolfenstein

I think a good opponent would be Thiago Silva for Wanderlei, and it would be another matchup of bad blood. I don't think he's done yet.

Nog I'm not so sure. I've never seen Nog unprepared, but that's what it looked like to me. He just didn't seem to have any gameplan. It was sad to see one of my favorites perform so poorly. I hope he can come back and overcome the odds once again. Give him Randy Couture.



I don't know if he wasn't prepared, just shocked. I don't think anybody thought mir could dominate him on the feet like that. and nog isn't known for his takedowns. I am still shocked at what i saw, mir was unbelievable.
Darnok
12/28/08 2:49:41PM

Posted by jocka


Posted by gspfan

For everyone in this thread who says Frank didn't look good, it was just that Nog looked terrible, that's just wrong. Nog looked the same in this fight as he has in many fights through out his career. He's known for getting the crap kicked out of him and then making a miraculous comeback and defeat his opponent. The only difference this time, was that Frank didn't give him the chance to come back. Frank got the job done. Trying to take credit away from him and this win is flat out disrespectful.



Am with you on this one Frank's hands looked very good yesterday that job uppercut kick combo was working for him, i was very impressed. It was so smart to stand up when i went to the floor Frank did everything right yesterday.



Finally, two comments that aren't completely blinded by Noghuggery.
RhythmAndStyle
12/28/08 5:51:02PM
Mir didn't look good last night..if his strikin is so f*ckin good..i like to see him try that against Vera..my bad Vera f*ckin knocked him out..whats next for Big Nog is probably a match with Couture..i remembered Big Nog sayin that he wanted Couture to come back and have a match with him..for Wandy..who knows he might even be cut from the UFC..if not hopefully a match with Forrest....
nickcuc547
12/28/08 5:54:04PM

Posted by RhythmAndStyle

Mir didn't look good last night..if his strikin is so f*ckin good..i like to see him try that against Vera..my bad Vera f*ckin knocked him out..



come on now, you can't sit here and say with a straight face that vera or mir are the same fighters they were when they fought one another. mir was a complete mess and vera had his swagger, each guy has done a 180 since that point, mir would wreck vera now.
ultimateweapon
12/28/08 6:39:16PM
wand is closer to being done than nog is
nog still has some more fight left in him though
but i'm not saying wand doesn't it's just being ko'd like that takes a tole on your body and your mind wand could very possibly be out of the UFC
RhythmAndStyle
12/28/08 6:42:02PM

Posted by nickcuc547


Posted by RhythmAndStyle

Mir didn't look good last night..if his strikin is so f*ckin good..i like to see him try that against Vera..my bad Vera f*ckin knocked him out..



come on now, you can't sit here and say with a straight face that vera or mir are the same fighters they were when they fought one another. mir was a complete mess and vera had his swagger, each guy has done a 180 since that point, mir would wreck vera now.



Mir would wreck Vera..f*ck no..if Vera went back up to HW..Vera would f*ck him up AGAIN..even with Vera goin down hill in his career...
ohiostate1016
12/28/08 9:37:49PM
I'm thinking that the UFC wants to have Nog face Randy. That way they could play up the Legend vs. Legend, PRIDE vs. UFC, yadda yadda yadda.

And I'm thinking that Wandy faces either Cane or Houston Alexander. If the UFC still thinks he has some left and wants to build him back up, then they let him put Alexander out of the UFC for good. But if they think he is washed up and want to use him to build Cane up, then they obviously give him Cane. I'd love to see him fight Forrest, but I think that Forrest probably gets a rematch against Rampage.
nastynick13
12/28/08 11:04:01PM
I thought there was talk of Wanderlei moving down to middleweight. I personally would love to see him down at middleweight. Three fights jump to my mind right away. Rich Franklin, a rubber match with Hendo, and a fight with Anderson Silva would just be awesome.
cmill21
12/29/08 12:00:23AM
I'm worried about Wand, I thought he showed that he was still the same tough bastard in the Chuck fight but I don't think i've ever seen him put out by one shot with little accumulitive damage. I love the guy but he has a ton of fights, and a ton of wars. I think we're finally seeing the guys who fought over and over in Pride start to break down(Cro Cop, Nog, Wand) while the guys who took regular breaks(Fedor, Barney, Hendo, Kharitonov, ect.) continue to perform the way they always did. People think it could be steroids or whatever but I think it's the fact that guys like Cro Cop fought 5 times in 2005 or 8! yes 8 times in 2004, and 58 pro fights. I think thats why some are slowing down, while others continue to dominate.
Mungooch
12/29/08 12:08:27AM
Wandy should fight Hammil for a rebound and Nog should get Randy
Mungooch
12/29/08 12:12:00AM

Posted by RhythmAndStyle

Mir didn't look good last night..if his strikin is so f*ckin good..i like to see him try that against Vera..my bad Vera f*ckin knocked him out....i





This is why you only have 4 props
npayant
12/29/08 12:16:30AM

Posted by RhythmAndStyle


Posted by nickcuc547


Posted by RhythmAndStyle

Mir didn't look good last night..if his strikin is so f*ckin good..i like to see him try that against Vera..my bad Vera f*ckin knocked him out..



come on now, you can't sit here and say with a straight face that vera or mir are the same fighters they were when they fought one another. mir was a complete mess and vera had his swagger, each guy has done a 180 since that point, mir would wreck vera now.



Mir would wreck Vera..f*ck no..if Vera went back up to HW..Vera would f*ck him up AGAIN..even with Vera goin down hill in his career...



Wow, this is pretty damn funny. Vera could handle R. Andy!!!!! At this point in both fighters' careers (and how Mir looked last night), Mir would take care of of Vera pretty handily!
Napao
12/29/08 1:43:30AM
Nog is not done yet....I agree that Couture would be a good next fight for them both - I would look forward to watching that for sure!

As for Wanderlei...well a mate of mine put it best yesterday - his halcyon days are now behind him sadly, and he will never return to being the dominating force he once was. But he had an INCREDIBLE record, run and list of defeated opponents - and that could never go on forever....especially for someone that had absolutely no regard for his own personal safety as Wanderlei! Lol...He just didn't care what happened to him - as long as he won - he was ALWAYS willing take a shot to deliver one....or two, or three - been that way his whole career! He doesn't know any other way, and that's one of the big things that's made him such a popular & marketable fighter down the years.

Wanderlei v Forrest I would like to see personally...but I dunno if that's fair on Wandy at this particular point in time....or Forrest would want to probably have a rematch against Rampage next rather that fight Wanderlei...Maybe give him someone of a slightly lesser calibre to find his feet again first up from this loss - which would have been devastating to someone as proud as Wanderlei - but also that same pride will probably see him asking FOR someone of Forrest's level - he would never turn down a difficult fight...ever. Quite the complete opposite.

The only other option for him is to drop down to MW - but can he beat Anderson Silva?? I don't think so, not now...maybe 3-4 years ago tho. Still, he would be a monster of a MW - because he is on the smaller side for a LHW.

The one thing I really and truly hope for them BOTH - is that Dana White & the UFC recognise the input they've had in the sport - and let them both continue and be treated with the utmost respect - and allow them to retire on their own terms and in their own time. And who even knows what happens?!? FFS how old was Randy C when he took back the belt?? Anything is possible for a champion - and both these fellows are deaset champs and true LEGENDS of the sport!

Not to mention the fact that Wanderlei in particular is still a very marketable fighter & personality - he will put bums on seats in arenas and loungerooms couches for PPV - Always! I myself will DEFINITELY be watching every live Wanderlei fight I possibly can now, because who knows how much longer we will get the chance to see that? And I know Dana likes bums on seats... ; )
big_timmy
12/29/08 3:57:40AM

Posted by RhythmAndStyle


Posted by nickcuc547


Posted by RhythmAndStyle

Mir didn't look good last night..if his strikin is so f*ckin good..i like to see him try that against Vera..my bad Vera f*ckin knocked him out..



come on now, you can't sit here and say with a straight face that vera or mir are the same fighters they were when they fought one another. mir was a complete mess and vera had his swagger, each guy has done a 180 since that point, mir would wreck vera now.



Mir would wreck Vera..f*ck no..if Vera went back up to HW..Vera would f*ck him up AGAIN..even with Vera goin down hill in his career...



So Vera JUST beat an average wrestler, lost to Jardine, is 3 from his last 4, and you pick him over a guy who jsut beat one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, and also beat the guy who is now champ?

The-Don
12/29/08 4:17:08AM
I posted this on another thread but it applies here too...


Nog has one bad fight and suddenly he is washed up??? A couple of months ago people were saying Mir was washed up he beat Lesnar and Nog.. and the latter in a convincing fashion. No excuses there He beat Nog. OH no.. Nog Lost.. Big deal.. he has lost before... OH no Randy Lost... He has lost before.. Randy looked damn good in that fight with Lesnar he just got caught... It happens its called MMA... Nog had a bad show.. Big deal how many great ones did he have? they may not be quite in thier primes.. but Both are still relevant.. Until they lose 4 or 5 in a row and are beat by guys like Tank and Kimbo then call them washed up. Nog lost to Mir who looked better that night then I think he ever looked. His stand up was tight. Nog looked like he was trying to lure him into a ground game and Mir backed off a couple of times and made the ref stand it up. 3 months ago everyone was saying it was going to be Nog and Randy for the title.. just because they got beat they are suddenly washed up? talk about fair weather fans. In the situation that was created it is only natural that in this 4 man tourney that was created the two losers would face each other.. both coming off of a loss have something to prove. This could be a great fight. Even the one who loses could not be counted out these 4 are probably the top HW's in the UFC. Then mix guys like Kongo and some of the others into the mix. the UFC HW division while not overly deep is looking exciting.
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