Welterweight Ladder

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gartface
2/22/09 2:01:41AM
With the recent destruction of Josh Koscheck's jaw, where does everyone fit into place? I think my first three are pretty unanimous, but the next couple are really up in the air for me.

1. GSP
2. Alves
3. Swick
4. Fitch
5. Hughes/Serra Winner maybe?
6. Karo (barring lengthy suspension)
7. Condit/Kampmann winner
8. Hazelett/Davis
9. Davis/Hazelett
10. Jake Shields (would be much higher if he ever signed )

Help me sort this out, Kos getting knocked out really screwed up my perception the divisional ladder.
NatedawgThaM
2/22/09 2:16:16AM
Um, disagree a lot with Swick being #3, hard enoug for me to put him even in the top 5 and over Fitch? Fitch beat Diego, Alves, and Burkman while Swicks biggest win was Davis, and a horrible razor close win over Burkman.

All the fights were stopped fast 2nite, way quicker then usual but none of them were bad IMO, Kos atleast suffered a flash KO, but I think he recovered but just sat their waiting for Thiago to pounce which made him look out still. So I don't question it at all. Kos should have rolled or something...

I got...

1. GSP
2. Fitch(Has win over Alves and was unbeatable until he ran into the true unbeatable)
3. Alves
4. Karo
5. Swick(Because Kos dropped and nobody else sticks out, needs to fight Karo to prove he's a title contender since he won't fight inside AKA. Would love to see him be Johnsons first big test)
6. Hazzellet(definitely could make argument for 6)
7. Anthony Johnson(Wanna see him fight Karo after a bad fight or Swick maybe even Davis to see where he stands, two or three away from title shot, hes on fire and definitely fun to watch, wanna see him become elite!)
8. Kos(Was the man until this slip, he bounce back and go top 5 no doubt, probably take out Karo next. Took Alves to distance where Hughes got destroyed)
9. Serra/Hughes winner, Both barely fight, Serra is nowhere without the win over GSP and got demolished in the rematch and Hughes got raped in both his last two.
10. Davis(slowly making his way up, but just fighting for striking rep and great fights won't help him go up but they'll sure as hell make fans and make him one of the best to watch)

I wanna see how kampmans drop goes and how Condit adjust to the UFC caliber guys before I rank them. Thiago needs another fight especially after he was getting schooled before he caught Kos. Wanna see him get Paul Kelly, Taylor or maybe even Lytle to see where he stands.
gartface
2/22/09 2:19:20AM
Forgot completely about Rumble, but I still think that Condit/Kampmann deserve consideration in the top 10.

I want Karo to fight someone from AKA, anyone. I think he loses to Fitch/Kos, but gets a win over Swick, all decisions though.
Pookie
2/22/09 2:38:15AM
Using a blend of completely Subjective Analysis based on Skill and Achievements.

1. GSP
2. Thiago Alves
3. Jon Fitch
4. Josh Koscheck
5. Matt Hughes
6. Mike Swick
7. Dustin Hazelett
8. Anthony Johnson
9. Martin Kampmann
10. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
11. Carlos Condit
Playground_Samurai
2/22/09 2:42:58AM
1.GSP
2.Alves
3.Fitch
4.Swick
5.Anthony Johnson
6.Condit
7.Kampmann
8.Kos
9.Hazelett
10.Karo
gartface
2/22/09 2:44:11AM

Posted by Pookie

Using a blend of completely Subjective Analysis based on Skill and Achievements.

1. GSP
2. Thiago Alves
3. Jon Fitch
4. Josh Koscheck
5. Matt Hughes
6. Mike Swick
7. Dustin Hazelett
8. Anthony Johnson
9. Martin Kampmann
10. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
11. Carlos Condit


Interesting, no Karo or Marcus Davis. But you did identify it as being subjective. I'm just looking at it from the UFC's prospective, or trying to at least. Not who I think should be in what slot, but who I think the UFC has in those slots.
Pookie
2/22/09 2:56:07AM

Posted by gartface


Posted by Pookie

Using a blend of completely Subjective Analysis based on Skill and Achievements.

1. GSP
2. Thiago Alves
3. Jon Fitch
4. Josh Koscheck
5. Matt Hughes
6. Mike Swick
7. Dustin Hazelett
8. Anthony Johnson
9. Martin Kampmann
10. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
11. Carlos Condit


Interesting, no Karo or Marcus Davis. But you did identify it as being subjective. I'm just looking at it from the UFC's prospective, or trying to at least. Not who I think should be in what slot, but who I think the UFC has in those slots.



Yeah Marcus Davis, Karo, Dong, and Hardy compose the 12-15 spots respectively.

It most definitely is my interpretation of the division and not the UFC's.

GSPCanada
2/22/09 4:12:22AM
here is the way i look at it

1. Gsp
2. Alves
3. Fitch

I have alves ahead of fitch because i do believe alves would beat fitch right now

4 & 5 - hughes and serra and they will stay there until someone else beats them i guess

6. Kos
7. Parisyan
8. Hazelett
9. Johnson
10. winner of kampmann/condit

maybe paulo thiago will fit into the equation after one more fight. but for right now im not sold on him or swick, hopefully those 2 fight. Hazelett and johnson dont really deserve to be where they are but the 2 of them (hazelett especially) have huge futures and win impressively hopefully they both fight higher ranked opponents
PABLOMAFIOSO
2/22/09 9:58:01AM
I think you have to take hughes out of the picture now. He is only fighting Serra because they couldn't do it at the end of TUF. I don't think the winner of this fight moves any closer to contention. Kos doesn't deserve to drop that much IMO. He got beaten by catching a bad punch and didn't recover, GSP had the same thing happen.
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prozacnation1978
2/22/09 10:20:36AM
all i'll say is swick gets next shot at title after thiago
and dan hardy is number 10 now in my top 10
gsquat
2/22/09 10:31:43AM
Hardy just cracked my top ten as well. I really don't want to even put Serra on my list becaues he hasn't fought in so long.
Franklinfan47
2/22/09 11:24:40AM
Mines pretty similar, although, Kos fell dramatically in mine after last night, and I think you guys have Swick, Davis, Johnson, Kampmann and Hazelett way too high. I don't even have them in my top ten.
nickcuc547
2/22/09 1:29:23PM
Kos is still up there even if he did get further away from a title shot last night. That loss last night was just as much if not bigger a fluke than gsp vs. serra, kos ko's that guy in the first 9 times out of 10 and wins that fight 99 times out of 100, that fight is just living proof of how unpredictable the sport can be and one mistake can lose you a fight no matter how much better you are.

Champ- GSP

1. Alves
2. Fitch
3. Swich
4. Koscheck

higdon10
2/22/09 2:18:52PM
Karo is falling fast. I dont think that he can handle any top 10 UFC WW's.
GSPCanada
2/22/09 4:50:11PM

Posted by PABLOMAFIOSO

I think you have to take hughes out of the picture now. He is only fighting Serra because they couldn't do it at the end of TUF. I don't think the winner of this fight moves any closer to contention. Kos doesn't deserve to drop that much IMO. He got beaten by catching a bad punch and didn't recover, GSP had the same thing happen.




I agree but it is rankings and although hughe doesnt seem to have it there is no reason anyone else should be ranked ahead of him, really he lost to alves n st. pierre like so many others. therefore how can u rank someone like karo or kos ahead of him? dont get me wrong i dont expect him to make a run for the title or be in the top 10 by the end of the year. but for the time being that is where where both of them should rank
Bloodhound
2/22/09 8:23:18PM
1. George St. Pierra
1. Thiago Alves
3. Jon Fitch
4. Mike Swick
5. Josh Kosheck
6. Matt Serra
7. Marcus Davis
8. Anthony Johnson
9. Matt Hughes
10. Karo Parysian
mk1630
2/22/09 9:21:12PM
Im kind of surprised to see Johnson, Hazelett, and Swick up there. I would say they are top 20 no doubt, but im not sure about putting them, especially Swick at 3, so high. I would love to see them fight higher competition to really see where they are at. And Davis, too.
Fox
2/23/09 6:34:14PM
1.) GSP
2.) Alves
3.) Fitch *
4.) Kos *
5.) Swick
6.) Johnson
7.) Karo
8.) Marcus Davis
9.) Hughes
10.) Hazzlett


* Hard to rank these guys one over the other becuz they will never fight. Would be a war tho. I dont think im gonna take kos off the top of the heap yea he got caught but so did GSP. By skill and skill alone this is the way i see it for now at least.
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