Vitor's future, your thoughts

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DoTheMMAth
2/19/07 11:03:40PM
Ok... we most likely all know the story of Vitor Belfort... "Vitor of Old", he's lost 5 of his last 7 fights... yada yada... but Vitor is only 29 years old. Does anyone with an inside track think that he still has a shot at becoming "a force to be reckoned with" again? I mean... look at the age on Chuckwagon, and even Randy coming back, Vitor has time still, but from what you've seen of him, do you think that he has the inner fortitude to make an impact again before he's done?
ac_gi
2/19/07 11:30:42PM
Belfort has 22 fights, Randy has 22 and Chuck has 23.

I think that Belfort is old for his age, and will never be a force again. 5 of his last 7 fights have gone down as a loss.
DoTheMMAth
2/19/07 11:49:19PM
True, but I don't know if you can use # of fights as a real measuring stick. Take Jeremy Horn for example, I would still consider him a threat to most fighters in his weight class and he's had (from what I can recall without looking) over 90 fights on record and is still going. Granted, he may never be a belt holder in Pride or UFC again at this point, but he has been good for a long time and Vitor is so young... maybe I'm just an optimist and a "Vitor of Old" nuthugger, but I'd just like to see him step his game up to the current field of play and make an impact again before he's not physicall capable anymore
Svartorm
2/20/07 12:04:45AM
It doesn't matter how old or young a fighter is if they're not there mentally, which Vitor isn't anymore. Hes even said in interviews that hes fighting at about 10% nowadays and doesn't have the fire anymore.
OB_Juan
2/20/07 12:10:36AM
Vitor could still probably hang w/ any of the current top LHWs but probably not beat them and if he did win he'd likely lose a rematch.

IMO he hasn't been the same since he broke his hand on Sak's skull. That seemed to have killed his psyche. He's been an inconsistent headcase ever since and scared to let his hands go like he used to.

He's a case of peaking too early. His pinnacle (Wand) was immediately followed by his downturn (Saku) IMO.
hippysmacker
2/20/07 2:31:33AM
I think If any top 15 fighter survives the first round against Vitor ( maybe just the first 2 minutes) he's basically done these days. To me he hasn't been the same since his sister's kinapping. The Saku fight could have been the beginning , but I think that personal tragedy changed him. He's supposed to rematching Eastman in Cage rage soon. After the huge cut Beastman got the first time, I'm surprised this isn't called a mismatch. Hopefully we'll see a flash of the phenom and a quick KO. He's supposedly training with the new brazilian superteam Black House( Casa Preta) that is an affilition of guys from BTT,Muay thai dream team, and Nova Uniao.Maybe they will give us a new improved Vitor. I hope so, he was one of the most exciting, explosive fighter's at his best.
aceprone
2/20/07 2:41:16AM
I hope his new training camp helps him out on his mental game. He should of destroyed Henderson. He is so much stronger and faster then him. I've watched the fight with him and Overeem and I think he lost that fight. He did good for the first couple minutes and then just faded away. Regardless if he claimed injury or not, he just seemed like his natural progression in his fights. I he does dominate the first couple minutes then it is down hill from there. But I always have hope for him and will always be cheering for him.
OB_Juan
2/20/07 2:58:45AM
I used to cheer for Vitor, but then I got tired of disappointment. Call me fickle.
waylon_o
2/20/07 8:06:11AM
I don't like any cheaters...and he most definitely is a cheater. The last thing mma needs are a bunch of douche-bags testing positive for steroids and giving all of the haters that much more fuel to use against us. And by the way, what's the story on his sister getting kidnapped?
JunCTion
2/20/07 11:10:45AM

Posted by DoTheMMAth

True, but I don't know if you can use # of fights as a real measuring stick. Take Jeremy Horn for example, I would still consider him a threat to most fighters in his weight class and he's had (from what I can recall without looking) over 90 fights on record and is still going. Granted, he may never be a belt holder in Pride or UFC again at this point, but he has been good for a long time and Vitor is so young... maybe I'm just an optimist and a "Vitor of Old" nuthugger, but I'd just like to see him step his game up to the current field of play and make an impact again before he's not physicall capable anymore




if there was a way he could right himselt mentally and make the most of his new training affiliation and get in his top physical and mental shape i think he could make an impact. i think he could take rashad and keith and his tito fight was a close one. vitor. you're still young. make a run in the LHW div. motivate yourself. do it for your sister


Posted by aceprone

He should of destroyed Henderson. He is so much stronger and faster then him. I've watched the fight with him and Overeem and I think he lost that fight. He did good for the first couple minutes and then just faded away. If he does dominate the first couple minutes then it is down hill from there. But I always have hope for him and will always be cheering for him.



i agree recent losses hurt, but henderson decision, overeem decision, tito split, randy doctor, chuck decision, all judges /doctor decisions. overeem is the only one to submit him, randys the only won to tko him (1 strikes/1 doctor,cut)
all his wins since chuck are by ko/tko

if he can dominate early he has the tools to stop anybody in the first round, but he would definately have to billed up his cardio cause he cant winn decisions anymore.

give him a shot dana, (whats his pride contract)
OB_Juan
2/20/07 2:38:13PM
No, Dana, please do NOT give him a shot. If he signed a 3 fight contract they'd be lucky to get 1 decent performance out of him.

How about we look at Vitor's entire career. His first 4 fights a roided up Vitor KO's bigger, mostly out of shape fighters w/ relatively low skill levels. Then Randy puts him in his place. Then another win for Vitor vs Charles (woohoo). Next, the pinnacle of his career. A 21 yr old Vitor KOs a 22 yr old Wanderlei (who was a fraction of the fighter then that he is now). A 6-1 Vitor moves to Pride.

That's when he takes his down turn IMO. He breaks his hand on Sak's head and suddenly he's scared to throw punches like he used to. The remainder of his stint in Pride consists primarily of LnP decisions (including a BS dec over Herring).

So (at 10-2 on paper) he comes back to the UFC and loses a decision to Chuck. I think that was the very last fight that I actually rooted for Vitor personally.

A year later he gets a nice cut stoppage over Eastman. Enter the Old Vitor, "We back mama! We back!". Could it be so? Apparently the nuthuggers thought so because in his next fight he manages to cut Randy w/ a punch that didn't even connect. "The new LHW champ! War Old Vitor!!!"

Then of course Randy teaches him a lesson in their rubbermatch. Nuthuggers cry "headbutt" but ignore the fact that the accidental cut from the butting of heads was not even the same cut that stopped the fight. Rather, it was one of the several other cuts he received from dozens of unanswered elbows. But yeah, you can call that a just doctor's stoppage (kind of like his win over Eastman, right) even though he was totally outclassed the entire fight save for some eye gouging he did on Randy.

Next is Tito. While Belfort fans claim that he was robbed, he really did very little but clip Tito's nose in rd 1 and hold him down for most of rd 2 while Tito was actually the busier striker from his back in that round. Vitor's little flurry that was completely blocked by Tito apparently gassed him out and Vitor offered nothing the rest of the fight. Round 3 Vitor ends up on his back as soon as BJM makes him let go fo the fence and that's it. Vitor didn't even initiate any of the stand up exchanges the entire fight. Even though he should have had the advantage standing he only counter punches.

Over his next 5 fights he KOs a couple C level fighters, gets choked out, and loses 2 decisions to other fighters w/ questionable gas tanks themselves and in both cases where he SHOULD have been the favorite. There you have it, the carreer of "The Phenom" in a nutshell. Hmmm... when you really look at it it's not quite as impressive as it is on paper.

Vitor is quite easily the biggest waste of potential in the history of MMA. He had so many tools and natural abilities yet he's proven to be a mental midget (Tito's words, not mine). Haters say he lacks heart but i'm not sure if I totally agree. Sure, he apparently gives up when a fight isn't going his way but he sticks it out even if it means taking a beating until the final bell. I do respect that, however I do not respect dirty fighting. Meh...
madmarck
2/20/07 3:33:17PM
What is with MMA ages. If a fighter is under 30 it is said oh he is onyll 29. If a fighters is 33+ he is considered old.
So is it at age 30-33 that fighters are no longer considered young?

I think anyone under 40 is still young. Even someone beyond that age can still compete and be the best in the world. Like Randy Couture (not Ken Shamrock).

I think Vitor is just one fo those guys like Frank Shamrock. Back in the day they dominated other fighters just becasue of their well roundness and overall atheletic ability. We are always seeing the old Vitor and Frank. They have never changed other athletes have just managed to see what they were doing and follow the same pattern.
JunCTion
2/20/07 3:33:53PM

Posted by OB_Juan

No, Dana, please do NOT give him a shot. If he signed a 3 fight contract they'd be lucky to get 1 decent performance out of him.

How about we look at Vitor's entire career. His first 4 fights a roided up Vitor KO's bigger, mostly out of shape fighters w/ relatively low skill levels. Then Randy puts him in his place. Then another win for Vitor vs Charles (woohoo). Next, the pinnacle of his career. A 21 yr old Vitor KOs a 22 yr old Wanderlei (who was a fraction of the fighter then that he is now). A 6-1 Vitor moves to Pride.

That's when he takes his down turn IMO. He breaks his hand on Sak's head and suddenly he's scared to throw punches like he used to. The remainder of his stint in Pride consists primarily of LnP decisions (including a BS dec over Herring).

So (at 10-2 on paper) he comes back to the UFC and loses a decision to Chuck. I think that was the very last fight that I actually rooted for Vitor personally.

A year later he gets a nice cut stoppage over Eastman. Enter the Old Vitor, "We back mama! We back!". Could it be so? Apparently the nuthuggers thought so because in his next fight he manages to cut Randy w/ a punch that didn't even connect. "The new LHW champ! War Old Vitor!!!"

Then of course Randy teaches him a lesson in their rubbermatch. Nuthuggers cry "headbutt" but ignore the fact that the accidental cut from the butting of heads was not even the same cut that stopped the fight. Rather, it was one of the several other cuts he received from dozens of unanswered elbows. But yeah, you can call that a just doctor's stoppage (kind of like his win over Eastman, right) even though he was totally outclassed the entire fight save for some eye gouging he did on Randy.

Next is Tito. While Belfort fans claim that he was robbed, he really did very little but clip Tito's nose in rd 1 and hold him down for most of rd 2 while Tito was actually the busier striker from his back in that round. Vitor's little flurry that was completely blocked by Tito apparently gassed him out and Vitor offered nothing the rest of the fight. Round 3 Vitor ends up on his back as soon as BJM makes him let go fo the fence and that's it. Vitor didn't even initiate any of the stand up exchanges the entire fight. Even though he should have had the advantage standing he only counter punches.

Over his next 5 fights he KOs a couple C level fighters, gets choked out, and loses 2 decisions to other fighters w/ questionable gas tanks themselves and in both cases where he SHOULD have been the favorite. There you have it, the carreer of "The Phenom" in a nutshell. Hmmm... when you really look at it it's not quite as impressive as it is on paper.

Vitor is quite easily the biggest waste of potential in the history of MMA. He had so many tools and natural abilities yet he's proven to be a mental midget (Tito's words, not mine). Haters say he lacks heart but i'm not sure if I totally agree. Sure, he apparently gives up when a fight isn't going his way but he sticks it out even if it means taking a beating until the final bell. I do respect that, however I do not respect dirty fighting. Meh...



wow. youre good. i cant even respond to that bacause i was looking at it on paper (actually on the computer screen.)
waylon_o
2/20/07 4:27:31PM
What exactly happened with Vitor's sister's kidnapping? I can't believe I've never heard about that.
OB_Juan
2/20/07 4:39:45PM
She disappeared for like 2 yrs and was eventually found dead.
waylon_o
2/20/07 5:00:14PM
Holy sh**! What's the story behind it? Does anyone know?
OB_Juan
2/20/07 5:32:26PM

Posted by waylon_o

Holy sh**! What's the story behind it? Does anyone know?



Just google "Priscilla Belfort kidnap" and you will find whatever you want to know. Here, I did it for you.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=priscilla+belfort+kidnap&btnG=Google+Search


So are you a newb or have you just been living under a rock the past 3 yrs?
Svartorm
2/21/07 2:36:16AM

Posted by OB_Juan


So are you a newb or have you just been living under a rock the past 3 yrs?



Not everyone follows the personal lives of fighters.

And kidnappings are rather common in Brazil from what I hear. I worked with a girl who was kidnapped twice in her life. They usually ransom you back to the family for a small amount of cash, or just rape you and kill you. Its a hell of a place.
JunCTion
2/21/07 12:27:04PM

Posted by Svartorm


Posted by OB_Juan


So are you a newb or have you just been living under a rock the past 3 yrs?



Not everyone follows the personal lives of fighters.

And kidnappings are rather common in Brazil from what I hear. I worked with a girl who was kidnapped twice in her life. They usually ransom you back to the family for a small amount of cash, or just rape you and kill you. Its a hell of a place.


should i assume thats why so many learn to fight? is it out of neccessity rather than "hey, i really think mma would be fun! do they still have a lot of nhb orgs?
nate22
2/21/07 12:32:00PM
No offence to Vitor but he's still fighting he can't let his past be something that hinders him in the future if he wants to get back to the top. I think alot of people play on this but all in all I think he is a good fighter who hasn't fufilled his potential for whatever reasons, thus now he is just another B level fighter. No disrespect to his personal issues whatsoever.
DoTheMMAth
2/21/07 1:07:34PM

Posted by OB_Juan

So are you a newb or have you just been living under a rock the past 3 yrs?w



/sigh

Perhaps he just hasn't spent time on lots of MMA message boards over the last couple years? There are fans who just watch all the events but aren't part of an online community. A kidnapping in Brazil isn't the kind of thing to make North American headlines. Apologies on the behalf of Waylon if he hasn't reached your level of knowledge yet
madmarck
2/21/07 1:35:19PM

Posted by DoTheMMAth


Posted by OB_Juan

So are you a newb or have you just been living under a rock the past 3 yrs?w



/sigh

Perhaps he just hasn't spent time on lots of MMA message boards over the last couple years? There are fans who just watch all the events but aren't part of an online community. A kidnapping in Brazil isn't the kind of thing to make North American headlines. Apologies on the behalf of Waylon if he hasn't reached your level of knowledge yet


Its not his fault he isnt a Keyboard warrior. I get the feeling OB_Juan has had some forum bannign expericene has he is quick to flame people.

To all the People otu there. IF WE DONT HAVE "NOOBS" WE DONT HAVE NEW MMA FANS AND THE SPORT WILL DIE! I apologize for the caps but it had to be done.
OB_Juan
2/21/07 2:46:02PM
Actually, it was a serious question. I meant no disrespect by "newb", just if he was a new fan. If you've been following the last couple years it's been nearly impossible to miss. it was a huge news story. Vitor even came out w/ her pic on his T-shirt at a UFC fight once (Eastman maybe?). Seriously, this story was as big in the MMA community as what Dick Cheney shooting a guy in the face was to the US.

Waylon, my apologies if I offended you as it was unintentional. I even googled it for ya.

madmarck
2/21/07 2:49:19PM
If you had been following MMA has you say you would Know he came out with the Picture of her on his shirt at his 2nd fight with Randy.

Try not to flame newbs. They are the future intelletucals.
OB_Juan
2/21/07 6:36:57PM

Posted by madmarck

If you had been following MMA has you say you would Know he came out with the Picture of her on his shirt at his 2nd fight with Randy.

Try not to flame newbs. They are the future intelletucals.



And I'm sure you knew that exactly off the top of your head w/ no research whatsoever. Whatev... I knew it was one of the 2 fights where "the Old Vitor" returned. After seeing X many fights the events tend to blend together and quite frankly I haven't given a crap about Vitor since 2002.

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