Vera wants UFC rematch, Werdum says no

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POLL: Was the stoppage premature?
Yes 72% (61)
No 18% (15)
Well, safety is paramount 11% (9)
grappler0000
6/9/08 7:59:10AM
Filipino American mixed martial artist Brandon "The Truth" Vera immediately called for a rematch after losing in a first-round battle against Fabricio Werdum of Brazil in their Ultimate Fighting Championship match at London's O2 Arena over the weekend.

"[I'm willing to wait] eight weeks, 10 weeks," Vera said, referring to the regular training period a UFC fighter undergoes before slugging it out in "The Octagon."

Werdum, however, declined Vera's challenge, saying he wants to fight for the UFC championship belt next. The Brazilian said that if and when he snares the crown, he would consider a rematch with Vera following Saturday's "UFC 85: Bedlam."

Link
bojangalz
6/9/08 8:39:54AM
Poor stoppage for sure. Vera's got a legit beef. At the same time, this is really an indigtment of the HW division isn't it?!

I mean, Werdum have you beat who exactly?

Reply- "Well, I stomped that Gonzaga guy. And he had a really good head kick once on CroCop. I mean, you should have seen it. it was really cool. And I demolished this Vera kid the other day. He had no chance, i knew it, the ref knew it, and you know it. Bring me Big Nog's head on a stick!!!"

Yeah, but arn't you the same guy who laid on your back for three rounds praying that Andre Arlovski would just climb aboard your love train? (quite possibly the worst fight i've ever seen)

Reply- "Well yeah- But if he would have just played along I would have taken him too. And he's gone now anyway. Clearly he was afraid of a rematch. So he's hiding from me now in some other silly organization."

Sure sure, Werdum. You wait here, I'll be right back with your title.

This whole division is a wreck right now. Mir gets a R1 sub on a rookie and it's good enough to send him to TUF and a title shot?! Werdum wants the belt and has no credentials. Vera NEEDS to drop to 205. Arlovski's gone, Big Tim is gone (who knew we'd miss him!). The last poster child of HW, Couture, now looks more like a cry baby. Short of Rocky Balboa (Nog), who gets destroyed for three rounds everytime out only to sneak in that submission at the end, there is no tested talent here at all. (ok, maybe Harring) Someone please help us!

I'm not a Brock fan at all, but he's got the physical gifts to run the table here if he gets some game under his belt. I really can't wait for guys like Valesquez and Carwin to put it all together so we can infuse some excitement back into this horrendous division.
SmileR
6/9/08 8:53:29AM
I can understand him wanting to progress towards the belt and the HW devision is basically broken but how can Werdum say he wants a title fight?!

He's 2-1 in his UFC career, one of which is a very questionable stoppage after losing one of the most boring fights I'v ever watched, and thats coming from probably the biggest AA nuthugger on the site!
The Gonzaga was impressive but I personally think theirs at least one more decent fight before he gets a title shot.
Maybe not Vera if he's so set on pushing forward but how about Kongo or Heath? they are both basically in the same boat as him.

All that being said though if Mir is fighting for the belt I don't see how they can justifye Werdum not being next in line...... God the UFC's HW devision is a joke! Less than a year ago it was by far the best in the world!
tomp6581
6/9/08 9:21:12AM

Posted by bojangalz

Poor stoppage for sure. Vera's got a legit beef. At the same time, this is really an indigtment of the HW division isn't it?!

I mean, Werdum have you beat who exactly?

Reply- "Well, I stomped that Gonzaga guy. And he had a really good head kick once on CroCop. I mean, you should have seen it. it was really cool. And I demolished this Vera kid the other day. He had no chance, i knew it, the ref knew it, and you know it. Bring me Big Nog's head on a stick!!!"

Yeah, but arn't you the same guy who laid on your back for three rounds praying that Andre Arlovski would just climb aboard your love train? (quite possibly the worst fight i've ever seen)

Reply- "Well yeah- But if he would have just played along I would have taken him too. And he's gone now anyway. Clearly he was afraid of a rematch. So he's hiding from me now in some other silly organization."

Sure sure, Werdum. You wait here, I'll be right back with your title.

This whole division is a wreck right now. Mir gets a R1 sub on a rookie and it's good enough to send him to TUF and a title shot?! Werdum wants the belt and has no credentials. Vera NEEDS to drop to 205. Arlovski's gone, Big Tim is gone (who knew we'd miss him!). The last poster child of HW, Couture, now looks more like a cry baby. Short of Rocky Balboa (Nog), who gets destroyed for three rounds everytime out only to sneak in that submission at the end, there is no tested talent here at all. (ok, maybe Harring) Someone please help us!

I'm not a Brock fan at all, but he's got the physical gifts to run the table here if he gets some game under his belt. I really can't wait for guys like Valesquez and Carwin to put it all together so we can infuse some excitement back into this horrendous division.



You are being totally unfair here.

Firstly, Vera was doing absolutley nothing except getting hit by a guy in full mount. wether or not he was getting hurt is another argument. The ref stopped it, because he wanst defending himself. Tell me what Werdum did wrong?
The REF stoped the fight NOT Werdum. Why has werdum come out of this fight looking bad?

Secondly, in the Arlovski fight BOTH fighter looked awful...BOTH! If you remember correctly this fight was initally going to be the "who fights the winner of Couture v Gonzaga(or cro cop). But Because both fighters were awful, Dana changed his mind.

Werdum is a good Heavyweight. He is guilty of being involved in one half of a awful fight more than a year ago, but since then has looked good.


D0wnUnd6e6r
6/9/08 10:00:32AM
What a wimp
fullerene
6/9/08 10:15:21AM
I can understand both guys' points. Vera clearly lost that round badly, but the stoppage was early to me. To say "If he gets and holds mount, he wins"--which is basically what they did--makes fighting a guy with Werdum's kind of BJJ almost impossible. I felt that Vera was losing badly but I didn't feel the fight was over and I'm not 100% confident Werdum wins a rematch. If I was Vera I would want a rematch immediately.

Werdum is probably the #1 contender for Nog's title right now. It's not that he's 2-1 in the UFC, it's also that he was a contender in Pride and that he's 2-0 in his last two fights against other potential contenders and that he beat them by stoppage. Nobody else on the UFC's roster has a more legitimate claim to be fighting for the title IMO. Should he be asked to compensate for the referee's discretion by forfeiting a bigger payday and poetentially a title (and more big pay days)? As a pure fighter, maybe that would be his instinct, but as a professional figter who has 3-4 years to make all the money and achieve all of the fame that he's going to achieve in his MMA career, that isn't a smart move. It's not like he's taking a step down in competiion in fighting Nog vs. fighting Vera. If anything, he's moving on to tougher challenges. Unfortunately for Vera he lost the chance he had to be in Werdum's position.
finnish_line
6/9/08 10:39:40AM


I don't understand how Vera could do what he did for 15-20 seconds and expect any ref to not stop the fight in 2008.

Just covering up and not fighting back is grounds for stopping a fight. Everyone knows this, except Brandon Vera it seems.

Vera will never make this mistake again (hopefully).

It doesn't matter if there were five, twenty, of 200 seconds left in the round. You have to throw a counter punch. Or try to buck your opponent off you. It doesn't matter if you're hurt or not, so there is zero point in saying "I'm not hurt."

There might actually be a point to saying "I'm going to fight back in a few seconds!" That might delay a ref stoppage.

It was a life lesson for him (one that he should have known by now if I knew it for a fact) and was thus a great stoppage.


EDIT - and Werdum thinks he's the #1 contender because of what Dana has said previously about the winner of this fight. Do I think he deserves to be? Hell no.

Still, he can't fight the winner of Mir/Nog for 10 months, so he needs a fight in the meantime. His opponent should probably be a smartened up Vera.


pdanke
6/9/08 10:52:34AM
What's unfortunate is that (bad stoppage or not) the crowd was booing Werdum.

I can understand you're frustrated, you wanted some carnage and you felt robbed of that, but Werdum was the better man that night, give him his props.
billycarnage
6/9/08 11:05:23AM
I am a Werdum fan (nuthugger) I was so stoked when he won BUT I think that since there were only 15 seconds left they should have let the clock expire and the fight go to Round 2. Vera wasn't doing anything to defend himself and so that's what he gets. If it were middle of the round there would be no contraversy so i am happy. Werdum could pass Vera's gaurd all day so it wouldn't have made it out of the second anyway.
I wouldn't fight a guy like Vera again either. After an entire year of training, best case scenario you beat the same guy twice why not move forward? fight Kongo or Hardonk... wow the devision really does suck.
bigbubbano23
6/9/08 11:09:15AM
o well, vera needs to start geting some wins before he makes some demands,
SpiderSilva
6/9/08 11:28:27AM
who has a better HW class ???

Affliction? why cause of Fedor?

Tim?

Tim was what a good fighter that no one liked to watch

well UFC still has a better HWs than everyone else plus they belong to the UFC not a joint of mutible orgs getting together for a show
candynuts
6/9/08 11:38:34AM
Im not sure why everyone is saying 10-15 seconds was left in the round. Vera got stopped at 4:40 which = 20 seconds left in the round. He was mounted for 13 seconds and there was 20 more seconds of the round when he decided to sort of curl sideways still receiving partially blocked shots to the face. I was actually thinking it was going to be stopped during the fight, and it did. But im not sure Vera woulda outlasted an extra 20 seconds in the position he was in when the fight got stopped. Maybe it was an early stoppage, but it might possibly have been 5 seconds to 10 early tops, but I just dont think he would have lasted 20 seconds.

candynuts
6/9/08 11:51:55AM

Posted by SpiderSilva

who has a better HW class ???

Affliction? why cause of Fedor?

Tim?

Tim was what a good fighter that no one liked to watch




Well, according to you Top 10 best heavyweights, Fedor, AA, Sylvia, and Barnett are fighting for Affliction. Aleksander is rumored to be fighting there. Those 5 top 10 HW's in the world (in your opinion of course) fight for Affliction.
Randy, Hunt, and Cro Cop do not fight in the UFC anymore, and the only 2 current UFC HWY's you have is Big Nog and Kongo in the top ten.

UFC clearly has more depth at the HWY division, but Affliction also has Pedro Rizzo, Ben Rothwell, and Paul Buentello. Not too shabby to be honest.
wrona666
6/9/08 11:52:37AM
Terrible stoppage in my opinion....Vera was not hurt at all, just because someone has the mount position and is throwing punches doesnt meen the fight should be stopped. Vera still had his hands up and was defending...IMO they should have let it go till Vera was at least rocked....
decken
6/9/08 11:54:29AM
My problem with the stoppage is this is the same referee that let Kimbo take elbows for 2 minutes and did not stop it. Vera is a better more experienced fighter and should be given more time (if he is not being seriously hurt.) Dan Miragliotta is just not consistent in his calls and nothing else pisses me of more. MMA is already unpredictable enough it doesn't need random and inconsistent refereeing on top of it.
Twenty20Dollars
6/9/08 12:00:16PM
Of course werdum doesnt want to rematch right now, who would? i mean werdum is pretty much in line for a title but he will have to wait. or he could fight again. Im sure he doesnt want to take the risk of losing a title shot like Karo did.
flainthefacerh
6/9/08 12:05:10PM
my problem is that i didnt hear the ref warn vera that he was going to stop it. he pretty much just stood there, watched, and came in and stopped it. dont they usually give that warning like "if you dont do anything im goign to stop it"
GSPCanada
6/9/08 12:11:38PM
I am one of the few people who had no problem w/ the reffing of the kimbo fight, kimbo was not hurt in that second round so the ref should have let it go the stoppage in the 3rd round should have happened becauuse James was hurt and dropped his hand the stoppage in the Vera fight was terrible...not that i thought he would have won anyways

this isn't wrestling where u win based on gaining dominant position stoppages need to occur when a guy is HURT goes limp or his head is banging off the canvas or his eyes roll in the back of his head a guy should be hurt and in danger of being seriously hurt (concussion or something) not in a bad position in danger of gettin mildly hurt IMO if a guy is just moving his head or has his head lifted like Kimbo did its a sign he is ok and has control of his body, an absolutely terrible stoppage
clintjack
6/9/08 12:15:25PM
Vera doesn't deserve a rematch, he would get beat again anyways, his ground game sucks, did you see how easily Werdum passed his guard?
thatfedorsohotrightnow
6/9/08 12:15:26PM

Posted by SpiderSilva

who has a better HW class ???

Affliction? why cause of Fedor?

Tim?

Tim was what a good fighter that no one liked to watch

well UFC still has a better HWs than everyone else plus they belong to the UFC not a joint of mutible orgs getting together for a show



Yeah dude f all these other orgs UFC rules all. UFC has like 4 HW's that are very underrated. Cain and Shain will be top 10 after their next fights. Nog has improved and he would beat Fedor in a rematch.

UFC has 3 top 10 HW's according to MMAWEEKLY. Affliction has 5 of the top 10 with Randy waiting to join. Yeah dude these guys are in all different orgs.

SpiderSilva=TUFer

On topic, Vera was robbed and I would love a rematch.

thatfedorsohotrightnow
6/9/08 12:19:37PM

Posted by GSPCanada

I am one of the few people who had no problem w/ the reffing of the kimbo fight, kimbo was not hurt in that second round so the ref should have let it go the stoppage in the 3rd round should have happened becauuse James was hurt and dropped his hand the stoppage in the Vera fight was terrible...not that i thought he would have won anyways

this isn't wrestling where u win based on gaining dominant position stoppages need to occur when a guy is HURT goes limp or his head is banging off the canvas or his eyes roll in the back of his head a guy should be hurt and in danger of being seriously hurt (concussion or something) not in a bad position in danger of gettin mildly hurt IMO if a guy is just moving his head or has his head lifted like Kimbo did its a sign he is ok and has control of his body, an absolutely terrible stoppage



Did your period key break? Looks like your shift key died recently too.
Rush
6/9/08 12:20:42PM
Vera is clearly the fan fave in the fight. Personally, given the language barrier, I can't see how Werdum would think that stop was not early. I think it would have continued on for 5-10 secs like that and could have been stopped without criticism.

The best thing Werdum could have done was say he would be happy to rematch Vera in the future (right after the fight). I'm sure he would have won over many fans that night had he said that and there would probably have only been a small chance it would have happened.
bullettdodger
6/9/08 12:23:12PM

Posted by decken

My problem with the stoppage is this is the same referee that let Kimbo take elbows for 2 minutes and did not stop it. Vera is a better more experienced fighter and should be given more time (if he is not being seriously hurt.) Dan Miragliotta is just not consistent in his calls and nothing else pisses me of more. MMA is already unpredictable enough it doesn't need random and inconsistent refereeing on top of it.



I think it would be interesting if we started having to pick what round the ref is going to stop it in... or at least know who is reffing what fight ahead of time so we can make our round picks accordingly. HAHA
grappler0000
6/9/08 12:27:44PM
Cecil Peoples was recently quoted as saying that his hate mail had drastically fallen off this week
finnish_line
6/9/08 1:17:38PM

Posted by wrona666
Vera still had his hands up and was defending...




You saw a lot more intelligent defence than I did.

89vision
6/9/08 1:24:12PM
Time to go to 205, I think it could have been let go until the end of the round, however hes a small heavyweight and even though they lack in HW's in the UFC he might be staying at HW
CantAndleDaRiddum
6/9/08 2:08:54PM
i knew werdum wouldnt want a rematch....& unfortunately this is going to make me like him even less
dannyfrank
6/9/08 2:27:03PM
vera doesn't deserve a rematch as of now, and werdum doesn't deserve a title fight. they both need to wait a little longer
silverbullet
6/9/08 2:40:57PM

Posted by flainthefacerh

my problem is that i didnt hear the ref warn vera that he was going to stop it. he pretty much just stood there, watched, and came in and stopped it. dont they usually give that warning like "if you dont do anything im goign to stop it"



I wasn't inside the cage so I didn't hear the warning from the ref either. However the ref was hovering over Vera for a good 5 sec before finally stepping in. If Vera wasn't so busy curling up in a ball trying to wait out the round, he would have seen that the ref is about to step in.
TWITA
6/9/08 4:34:14PM

Posted by silverbullet


Posted by flainthefacerh

my problem is that i didnt hear the ref warn vera that he was going to stop it. he pretty much just stood there, watched, and came in and stopped it. dont they usually give that warning like "if you dont do anything im goign to stop it"



I wasn't inside the cage so I didn't hear the warning from the ref either. However the ref was hovering over Vera for a good 5 sec before finally stepping in. If Vera wasn't so busy curling up in a ball trying to wait out the round, he would have seen that the ref is about to step in.



Vera stated in the post fight that during that barrage he continued to tell the ref that he was OK. He could have lasted the remaining 10 seconds as most of those shots were landing on his arms. Who am I to say - I wasn't in the octagon being mounted by Verdum ... plus I'm a BV nuthugger
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