User opinions wanted: help decide the future of the wagering system

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POLL: What would you like to see done with the site's wagering system?
Leave things as they are and just spend some time policing wagers after each event 30% (89)
Change/replace the current system with an odds-based house only wagering system 25% (72)
Leave the current system in place but force all wagers to loosely adhere to a money line 6% (18)
Add an odds-powered house wagering system, but leave the current system in place as it is 23% (68)
Add an odds-powered house system and leave current system in place with odds guidelines 12% (36)
Something else entirely 3% (9)
DoTheMMAth
2/5/07 11:28:12AM
In the forming of the wager system for this site we had the goal of making it easy to understand and use for everyone, even those without experience in +/- odds style wagers. Most all sports gambling sites on the net use +/- odds and have all wagers done against "the house", so we wanted to experiment with a different approach, one that would get site members to interact and perhaps get to know each other, with the end result (hopefully) being that the site becomes a "community" rather than simply a sterile "tool" that people check and use a couple days before a big event.

After our first event though, we've seen that the current state of the wagering system may need to be changed, which is how things go when a site is in "beta". We have spent far too much time since UFC 67 investigating and weeding out folks with multiple accounts wagering absurd items against themselves, and as the site continues to grow we can only expect this behavior to grow. Hell, one user even wagered (against himself via a secondary account) $1 on CroCop, $500 on Eddie lol. Since the actual site rankings and winner will be chosen based on points (which cannot be manipulated), it was kind of surprising to see so many folks try to "game" the wagering system where there is no actual real life reward (aside from being a fun side-game and an outlet to use to avoid spending your real hard-earned dollars on fights).

As such, here is a poll that we'd like everyone possible to vote on to help us decide which route is the best for the community to take. Which would you like to see happen:

1) Leave things as they are, bite the bullet and spend a bit of time policing things after each event

2) Change/replace the current system to work like regular sports betting sites do where everyone is betting against the house rather than each other using site a generated +/- odds money line

3) Leave the current system in place, but force all wagers to loosely adhere to a site-generated money line*

4) Add an odds-powered house wagering system, but leave the current system in place as it is

5) Add an odds-powered house wagering system, and leave the current system in place but with a loosely enforced money line in place for each wager

6) Do something else entirely (if you choose this one, please explain it in this post)


We'll leave this up for a week or so then take it from there.


* By "loosely enforced" guidelines we are speaking of some sort of algorithm where the amounts wagered are dictated by odds, but with some room to tweak things. For example, one source's odds listed Mirko at -1400, Sanchez at +900. We would set things up so that there was room to make a wager 100 above or below the set moneyline on each fighter so that you still have some flexibility and room to breath on your bets.... this may be a little more complex than the original goal of making things simple and easy to use though.
thestaton
2/5/07 11:59:40AM
I like this option "Add an odds-powered house wagering system, but leave the current system in place as it is".

It lets those of us who like the vegas odds style to make our bets and it lets those who prefer the current system.

nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 12:13:18PM
i think we should jsut leave it but police it i you find anyone doing bets like then they get kicked out. or just make a line like the underdog can't give odds can only get odds. if you go to betting with the house it will turn out like yo guys said were ppl just come the last few days and mke there bets and picks then not come back to the sight till after to see how they did. they wont sit on here and post onhere as much at all.
Pyrenus
2/5/07 12:56:46PM
Why not require a unique IP and/or email with validation for each user account to cut down on people creating multiple accounts to place wagers against themselves?
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 12:58:37PM

Posted by Pyrenus

Why not require a unique IP and/or email with validation for each user account to cut down on people creating multiple accounts to place wagers against themselves?


ya i feel that only be able to makeon e account per email
Scuggz
2/5/07 12:59:51PM
I mean it's all for fun anyway, and I enjoyed it after the first event. I actually really like the wagering with other users and such.

I think as time goes on it will stop. Looking at the wealthiest players list, you can see who people are wagering against. If one person is constantly betting against the same people over and over again for $1 vs $500, then obviously something is up with them, and they can just be reported and removed or whatever.

You could also maybe think about adding in a rule where you have to bet against new people each event. That may make it more difficult for those goofballs. But either way, it's all for fun, and adds a bit more excitement to the MMA event. I enjoyed it regardless of what others may or may not be doing!.
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 1:03:11PM

Posted by Scuggz

I mean it's all for fun anyway, and I enjoyed it after the first event. I actually really like the wagering with other users and such.

I think as time goes on it will stop. Looking at the wealthiest players list, you can see who people are wagering against. If one person is constantly betting against the same people over and over again for $1 vs $500, then obviously something is up with them, and they can just be reported and removed or whatever.

You could also maybe think about adding in a rule where you have to bet against new people each event. That may make it more difficult for those goofballs. But either way, it's all for fun, and adds a bit more excitement to the MMA event. I enjoyed it regardless of what others may or may not be doing!.


i wouldn't like that you have to wager with other ppl every event cause even after the first event you start to kind of know ppl and might like making bets with them i think as long as us as players report things that don't look right and the ppl on this sight keep there eyes open it shouldn't get to bad.
TequilaMan2000
2/5/07 1:04:38PM

Posted by nellyhiphophead

i think we should jsut leave it but police it i you find anyone doing bets like then they get kicked out. or just make a line like the underdog can't give odds can only get odds. if you go to betting with the house it will turn out like yo guys said were ppl just come the last few days and mke there bets and picks then not come back to the sight till after to see how they did. they wont sit on here and post onhere as much at all.



Personally, I like the current system. We just need to police it better for cheaters.

Employ the help of the players, and they can report anything suspicious, and help you out immensely.
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 1:06:07PM
i'm happy we are both on the same page!!!!!! there is no way i want to bet with the huse everyfight.
Scuggz
2/5/07 1:12:41PM

Posted by nellyhiphophead


Posted by Scuggz

I mean it's all for fun anyway, and I enjoyed it after the first event. I actually really like the wagering with other users and such.

I think as time goes on it will stop. Looking at the wealthiest players list, you can see who people are wagering against. If one person is constantly betting against the same people over and over again for $1 vs $500, then obviously something is up with them, and they can just be reported and removed or whatever.

You could also maybe think about adding in a rule where you have to bet against new people each event. That may make it more difficult for those goofballs. But either way, it's all for fun, and adds a bit more excitement to the MMA event. I enjoyed it regardless of what others may or may not be doing!.


i wouldn't like that you have to wager with other ppl every event cause even after the first event you start to kind of know ppl and might like making bets with them i think as long as us as players report things that don't look right and the ppl on this sight keep there eyes open it shouldn't get to bad.



Good point.. I actually agree, that was just a suggestion if it continues to get bad. Your right though, if someone wagers and gets a lot of my money, you know he is the first person I'm going to bet with the next event. And it does help with getting to know people. I also found that a lot of my placed wagers were not answered and I struggled finding people to wager, so getting people you know will wager with you, will help.
madmarck
2/5/07 1:29:28PM
Far too many people including myself dont understand the Odds system. If it were to be put in place i think it should be explained............heavily.
DoTheMMAth
2/5/07 1:45:42PM

Posted by nellyhiphophead

ya i feel that only be able to makeon e account per email



As it stands now you may only make one account per email address.


Posted by Pyrenus

Why not require a unique IP and/or email with validation for each user account to cut down on people creating multiple accounts to place wagers against themselves?



Dial-up users or other users that are on an ISP that employs a proxy server at any level will have different IP addresses almost every time they are connected to the net, so this isn't a surefire way to police things. IP's are considered in the investigative process that the mods have set up though, but I'd rather not elaborate on things so as to give scammers a further advantage in trying to game things.


Another problem we've run against is folks who claim that they have roommates and/or other family members in the same house that they want to play with... even if IP's were consistent, how can we possibly know what is and is not legit?

Also, what happens if someone on the site is just a huge fan of the underdog? Some people honestly did believe that Lutter would win... it's hard to police what is and is not a valid and real wager in a case like that. Just some food for thought.
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 1:47:52PM
on the last part of that with th underdog then let them make a even odds bet. anyone he makes that wager withwill take it cause most the other ppl will be wanting odds on that fight anyways.
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 1:54:23PM
if you make it "Add an odds-powered house wagering system, but leave the current system in place as it i" then every one will just bet with the house. why not you might ask cause if your wagering anoter person one will get better odds then the house gives and the other would get worse so who ever is getting the worse then the house would just go and make a bet with the house t get the bette odds.
Nacho
2/5/07 2:43:49PM
It looks like there is a definite preference for odds based betting. Leaving things as they are is leading the polls only because the odds based betting options are divided between house only and allowing bets amongst players. Did I just confuse anyone? Just look at the poll graph and add up the odds based betting numbers all together.
Darwinist
2/5/07 2:52:56PM
If you feel that people aren´t reporting enough suspicious betting behaviour, how about introducing an incentive-based approach? Every report that turns out to be legit nets a "finder's fee" of $10 or something......

nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 2:57:30PM
i like that idea
katsumoto
2/5/07 3:52:54PM
I really enjoy the current system. This is a unique website and I think it has a lot of potential in its current form. Add a system with house odds if you wish, but I think much of what is unique and enjoyable about this site is the fact that it allows users to interact while making bets, and in a sense barter for odds they are willing to take. I think this goes quite a bit farther to making this site a community, as you stated was one of your goals, rather than a house odds system alone. If you only allowed us to wager using house odds the interaction between users with drastically decrease and would remove much of the personality that has begun to develop with this website. It may require a little more effort on your part, but I hope you see that it will be worth it.

It is discouraging that some try and abuse the wagering system, and I know its a hassle for you to deal with, but from all of us out there who were involved with the first round of fantasy wagers, you guys are doing a great job. Firstly for polling the users to see what we want, rather than just making the changes and us having to deal with it. Second, for providing such a unique idea in a time of exploding popularity for MMA. You guys are doing a great job and we all really appreciate it.
Bottom line: PLEASE KEEP THE CURRENT SYSTEM!!!!! (add anything you wish but keep the opportunity for us to interact with other users to make bets, it adds a entirely different level to the fantasy game) and keep up the good work!!!

KT
strikefirstgear
2/5/07 3:57:14PM

Posted by TequilaMan2000


Posted by nellyhiphophead

i think we should jsut leave it but police it i you find anyone doing bets like then they get kicked out. or just make a line like the underdog can't give odds can only get odds. if you go to betting with the house it will turn out like yo guys said were ppl just come the last few days and mke there bets and picks then not come back to the sight till after to see how they did. they wont sit on here and post onhere as much at all.



Personally, I like the current system. We just need to police it better for cheaters.

Employ the help of the players, and they can report anything suspicious, and help you out immensely.



Yeah, what he said. Some thoughts...

The current system is easy to understand for those of us who dont know odds style wagering.

Having an option to bet with the house under odds would be a nice addition though.

Part of the fun of this type of wagering system is that there are people who have favorite fighters and are willing to wager huge bets even on an underdog. Let the stupid people make stupid bets. I am okay with that.

I am sure as time goes on the "extra accounts" and "cheating" will be weeded out. Seems like alot of energy wasted but that's some people for ya.

What about setting up a "challenge" type policy to have the members help out with the policing of the wagers. If a member could submit a challenge to a wager and win some of those "cheated" points if correct or lose some of their own points if they were wrong (kind of like claiming an engine in racing). It might offer incentive to help the board members police themselves.

Just a thought, or two
jdb487
2/5/07 3:59:37PM

Posted by madmarck

Far too many people including myself dont understand the Odds system. If it were to be put in place i think it should be explained............heavily.


agreed
Scorpiorising
2/5/07 4:01:21PM
i like the way it is but if you need more mods finding this stuff out i'd be down i have the time to help.
strikefirstgear
2/5/07 4:02:04PM

Posted by Darwinist

If you feel that people aren´t reporting enough suspicious betting behaviour, how about introducing an incentive-based approach? Every report that turns out to be legit nets a "finder's fee" of $10 or something......




Same idea just several ways to approach it. Might be important for the "reporting member" to have to put up some of their own money (in case they are wrong) if they are challenging someone elses wager. Should keep the frivolous reports down a bit.
JimiMak
2/5/07 4:27:17PM
I went with adding the odds based system and leaving the current one. My second choice however would be to leave it as is. I like betting odds and want to be able to do that here, however the betting here is unique, fun and as has been said community minded. I like it.. If you leave it as is I can still bet the lines on another site. If you take away this interactive betting, there won't be anywhere for us to do it like this. I also fear that you might lose a lot of people that don't understand the odds system. This has grown much faster than any other fantasy mma site I have seen and I think it's cuz ppl like the ease of use.
Sagat_GSP12
2/5/07 4:49:31PM
An option to bet against the house would be a nice addition to the current format, but a lot of the fun is betting against live users the your bankroll that way. Plus if you take away the current system that would take away from fight camps "going to war" against each other. It's also nice for the purpose of bragging rights to make people put their money where their mouth is.
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 4:55:46PM
by the sounds of it to me ppl like it the way it is lets keep it change nothing
DoTheMMAth
2/5/07 5:38:45PM

Posted by strikefirstgear


Posted by Darwinist

If you feel that people aren´t reporting enough suspicious betting behaviour, how about introducing an incentive-based approach? Every report that turns out to be legit nets a "finder's fee" of $10 or something......




Same idea just several ways to approach it. Might be important for the "reporting member" to have to put up some of their own money (in case they are wrong) if they are challenging someone elses wager. Should keep the frivolous reports down a bit.



Part of the problem is that there isn't always a 100% way to prove that something was manipulated... and although we've now changed things to say "one account per household" we've run up against people who swear that there roommate/wife/brother/workmate is playing the game too from the same location. I'm sure in the process we're going to wind up banning some innocent folks, but juding things at face value things do appear manipulated in these cases.
nellyhiphophead
2/5/07 5:44:10PM
how many fake wagers hae you found and took back?? how bad is it?
D-Boy
2/5/07 5:46:08PM
What when was this changed, one of my housemates DOES play, we've never betted together and aren't on the same team so does one of us have to quit now?
DoTheMMAth
2/5/07 5:59:23PM

Posted by D-Boy

What when was this changed, one of my housemates DOES play, we've never betted together and aren't on the same team so does one of us have to quit now?



Just don't do any fishy wagers with him and you'll be fine, just changed it the other day because I had literally 6 folks that I was 98% sure were gamers contact the site asking why they can't log in when it was obvious manipulation. "My brother really did want to wager $500 on Lutter to my $200 on Silva", etc.
D-Boy
2/5/07 6:02:44PM

Posted by DoTheMMAth


Posted by D-Boy

What when was this changed, one of my housemates DOES play, we've never betted together and aren't on the same team so does one of us have to quit now?



Just don't do any fishy wagers with him and you'll be fine, just changed it the other day because I had literally 6 folks that I was 98% sure were gamers contact the site asking why they can't log in when it was obvious manipulation. "My brother really did want to wager $500 on Lutter to my $200 on Silva", etc.



kk thanks for clearing that up I didn't want to have to be mean and stop him playing
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