Update on the Rampage accusations

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » UFC Forum » Update on the Rampage accusations
MMA
6/13/07 10:03:29AM
Mauro was Pride’s play-by-play announcer for several years and has a strong knowledge of how the company did business. He said there was a six-month period in Pride where fighters were offered bonuses if they lost via ref stoppage from strikes or a submission. The idea behind the bonus wasn’t to get fighters to take dives, but to entice them not to quit in order to make the fights more dramatic. The clause never served its intended purpose and that was it.

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szucconi
6/13/07 12:41:37PM
This makes sense, but its still dirty. It compromises the integrity of the fight and of the sport when you try to dictate the action in the ring. This type of bonus is to directly interfering with the match. A monetary reward for an exciting fight is one thing, but getting more money if you lose is dirty. The bonus specifically asks a fighter to put his career on the line and not tap for as little as 2K. Its one thing to not tap on a choke, but an arm bar or some other submission could result in a compound fracture or severe ligament damage. Any bonus for losing is dirty.

Fight of the night bonus is a much better way of rewarding effort and making fights exciting. There should never be a scenario where a fighter can make more money if he loses. What make fight of the night such a great idea is the other bonuses. Knockout of the night and submission of the night give dominant fighters an insentave to finish a fight quickly and not drag out a fight to try and get the fight of the night bonus.

Pride was horribly mismanaged and a part of me is glad that Pride is done. I knew that some Pride fights were works, but this is bad for MMA.
Primo
6/13/07 1:23:47PM
I totally disagree. Zuffa buying PRIDE was bad, enticing fighters to not tap or give up from strikes is not bad, it's a choice. It's not like they sent a yakuza hitman in there to wack him. What about Dana getting mad Diego is banging a ring card girl?? He already banged Rachelle Leah...that's great business??
szucconi
6/13/07 2:19:21PM

Posted by Primo

I totally disagree. Zuffa buying PRIDE was bad, enticing fighters to not tap or give up from strikes is not bad, it's a choice. It's not like they sent a yakuza hitman in there to wack him. What about Dana getting mad Diego is banging a ring card girl?? He already banged Rachelle Leah...that's great business??



Rewarding losing with extra cash is bad. I don't see how you can say it isn't. That is idiotic.

I don't see how Dana's feelings about ring card girls getting slammed have anything to do with this. Maybe he feels that the ring card girls are his stable of personal sevice hoes. Maybe he thought Diego had hepatitis at the time? Maybe he is a huge hypocrite? It is not relevant.
Canadian_MM_EH
6/13/07 2:49:56PM
Mauro may be right, but it doens't really matter. Pride was pretty dirty, they let there fighters juice and what not, plus the MOB was involved with Pride.
Brick
6/13/07 4:17:57PM
Agree. No way that paying someone more to lose a fight than you pay them to win a fight is on the level. Yakuza FTW!
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rcg916
6/13/07 5:07:09PM

Posted by Primo

I totally disagree. Zuffa buying PRIDE was bad, enticing fighters to not tap or give up from strikes is not bad, it's a choice. It's not like they sent a yakuza hitman in there to wack him. What about Dana getting mad Diego is banging a ring card girl?? He already banged Rachelle Leah...that's great business??




Posted by Brick

Agree. No way that paying someone more to lose a fight than you pay them to win a fight is on the level. Yakuza FTW!



Oh my... They are migrating from "the dog" in huge numbers! The median IQ just dropped 20 points on MMAPlayground as a whole.

Please, please, please...

Dont turn this into that God-forsaken place.



hippysmacker
6/13/07 5:37:26PM

Posted by Primo

I totally disagree. Zuffa buying PRIDE was bad, enticing fighters to not tap or give up from strikes is not bad, it's a choice. It's not like they sent a yakuza hitman in there to wack him. What about Dana getting mad Diego is banging a ring card girl?? He already banged Rachelle Leah...that's great business??



Wow! Not much else to say
Albertan
6/13/07 6:10:33PM
Totally unfair statement they tested for illegal drugs the UFC chose to not even do that in events outside Nevada or california.

The UFC is worse because they chose not to test for anything Pride simply followed the law on illegal drugs.
hippysmacker
6/13/07 6:36:27PM
I think some people are not thinking this through. this isn't a nutthugging defend your side to death issue. Really no issue should be IMO, which is why I don't like nuthugging. I'm a Dallas fan, and I'm not gonna say they were better than the Eagles last year, because they beat us twice. Yet the one person I know who is an eagles fan , would not do the same if the situation were reversed He is an eagles nutthugger, not an eagles fan to me. No one should ever defend something wrong for any reason. If Pride did something wrong, it's still wrong. If the UFC does something wrong it's still wrong. When someone points out something that Pride did wrong and your only answer is " Oh yeah, well the UFC did this wrong, so there" it really does not answer the FACT that Pride did something wrong. If the UFC does something wrong I say it's wrong, same with pride. Nutthugging is a disease! No one should defend injustice. This reminds me when OJ got away with it. I was at work, and one of my fellow employees( a good friend, and my girlfriends best friend) was black. She started jumping up and down with joy when the verdict was read. I actually was friends with her, and later when we were alone I asked why she was so happy that a murderer got away with it( she had admitted to me before that she believed he was obviously guilty) . She said white people had gotten away with so much bad stuff and now it was their turn. I was stunned. I asked her if a white man raped her, and got away with it, would she want a black man to get away with raping Lisa( my girlfriend, who was white) and she said of course not. Same principle, she should be wanting to both to be punished. 2 wrongs don't make a right, this isn't a us vs them issue. it's a right vs wrong issue. Anyway, it made her rethink her stance on OJ. The best thing about this site has been the small amount of nutthugging , but it still exist on both sides, and with certain fighter's. I think Fedor is the man, and I believe he still would have defeated Lindland, but he did cheat when he grabbed the ropes. I wouldn't even try to deny it. So please everyone, think about what your defending, before you type.If the UFC did this I would hammer them, just like I did when they gave Quarry a title shot. Right or wrong should decide all peoples decision making process, not a brand or fighter . Thanks
szucconi
6/13/07 6:47:57PM

Posted by hippysmacker

I think some people are not thinking this through. this isn't a nutthugging defend your side to death issue. Really no issue should be IMO, which is why I don't like nuthugging. I'm a Dallas fan, and I'm not gonna say they were better than the Eagles last year, because they beat us twice. Yet the one person I know who is an eagles fan , would not do the same if the situation were reversed He is an eagles nutthugger, not an eagles fan to me. No one should ever defend something wrong for any reason. If Pride did something wrong, it's still wrong. If the UFC does something wrong it's still wrong. When someone points out something that Pride did wrong and your only answer is " Oh yeah, well the UFC did this wrong, so there" it really does not answer the FACT that Pride did something wrong. If the UFC does something wrong I say it's wrong, same with pride. Nutthugging is a disease! No one should defend injustice. This reminds me when OJ got away with it. I was at work, and one of my fellow employees( a good friend, and my girlfriends best friend) was black. She started jumping up and down with joy when the verdict was read. I actually was friends with her, and later when we were alone I asked why she was so happy that a murderer got away with it( she had admitted to me before that she believed he was obviously guilty) . She said white people had gotten away with so much bad stuff and now it was their turn. I was stunned. I asked her if a white man raped her, and got away with it, would she want a black man to get away with raping Lisa( my girlfriend, who was white) and she said of course not. Same principle, she should be wanting to both to be punished. 2 wrongs don't make a right, this isn't a us vs them issue. it's a right vs wrong issue. Anyway, it made her rethink her stance on OJ. The best thing about this site has been the small amount of nutthugging , but it still exist on both sides, and with certain fighter's. I think Fedor is the man, and I believe he still would have defeated Lindland, but he did cheat when he grabbed the ropes. I wouldn't even try to deny it. So please everyone, think about what your defending, before you type.If the UFC did this I would hammer them, just like I did when they gave Quarry a title shot. Right or wrong should decide all peoples decision making process, not a brand or fighter . Thanks



agreed. Nubby, you should read this and think about Tito Ortiz.

hippysmacker, as a Redskin fan I would like to hear your stance on why Michael Irvin is in the Hall of Fame and Art Monk is not. Right? Wrong? Are you going to hammer the selection board?
kerazzle
6/13/07 8:11:11PM
hppysmacker is pretty much dead on. When theres a mistake with Pride it does not mean that the UFC is perfect and better. They both have their ups and downs. Pride had some very odd ways of doing business.
Lord_Lenny
6/13/07 8:11:21PM

Posted by szucconi


agreed. Nubby, you should read this and think about Tito Ortiz.




First of all sorry to get even more off subject, but i have wanted to say this for a long time

Since when has tito ever raped someone though. It honestly pisses me off that tito seems to be the only one people can bash on this site. Then anytime anyone stands up for him, that person is automatically labled a nutthugger. People here can make fun of his mexican background, his family (jenna), and try to cut his entire career down after losing to a top notch fighter (chuck). Just because the majority of people on this site dislike him, hes the only fighter that people can bash. If i made a game where you kicked GSP's head,and posted a link to it here, it would cause an uproar. The thread would be deleted within seconds. By that definition there are so many GSP nuthuggers that are never called out on their nutthuggery. St. Pierre lost to a less than top notch fighter and he's like a god to some people here, he can come out after a loss and take away from matt serra's win and everyone defended him. I was the only one who spoke out against him in the thread about him saying he didnt train for the Serra fight, and i get a warning about fighter bashing. Whereas when Tito tries to get some hype BEFORE a fight people can trash him way worse than what i said about GSP

The fact is that he is a fighter who got me into MMA, who has only lost to the best, who helped the sport grow, who is still helping the sport grow, who entertains me. If defending him because of those reasons, labels me as a nutthugger, then send me a pair of ass-less chaps, and find me a comfortable spot on Tito's sack
hippysmacker
6/13/07 8:17:03PM
Actually i think thgey should both be in. When Monk retired he was the all-time receptions leader. Add the fact that he was one of the better blocking receivers of his time, and it makes no sense to me. I think part of the problem is modern recievers are putting up such ridiculous numbers that some of the older guys aren't getting thier due. It's funny you should bring this up becuase when ESPN had their poll on veterans who should be in the Hall I voted for Rayfield Wright and Art Monk. Also, Irvin had such a big public persona( IE attention whore) on ESPN and when he was playing I think that helps him. I think he definitely deserves to be in, but I think that's why he got in so quick.iIve always wondered if maybe their is some behind the scenes stuff we don't know about Monk, but even if there was, i doubt it could be worse than all Irvin's off the field stuff. So yes, Art Monk is definitely a HOF'er in my book. Now back to the topic at hand
xthe_scottx
6/13/07 8:23:39PM
While I agree it is wrong to bash a fighter Lord_Lenny, he brings it on himself. He completely disrespects people and is often very inappropriate in his comments and or actions. Remember when he Flipped off Guy Mezger's corner or how about recently when Don Imus made some remarks that wheren't that bad but obviously offended some and Ortiz comes along and says quote: "He Will Be My Nappy Headed Ho," referring to Rashad. Tito Ortiz is a fighter and I try my hardest to respect him but you can't respect someone who is so blatantly rude.
iwannabesedated
6/13/07 8:36:41PM
I think it comes down to either your in it for the glory or your in it for the money..Granted MMA fighters arent paid as much as other athletes in diffrent professions ..i doubt you see any fighter getting a 10 year 250million dollar contract or something outrageous...but back to the point..i think its comes down to do i want to win and walk away with 10 g's or get choked the F out for 12g's...Money will make people change and do things they normally may not want to do cause people believe money brings power ...do u Get choked out or Bludgeoned in the ring.I guess its a matter of being a SELL OUT or not..Do you want to win in glory or lose with a deeper pocket the choice was theirs...its not fair to point fingers and say pride is dirty or ufc does things dirty...cause none of us really know what goes on behind the scenes of either org...i just hope that their isnt no Fixed fights..cause if thats the case..we might as well be wathching WWF...and thats crap
hippysmacker
6/13/07 9:00:19PM
Gonna have to agree. Fighter bashing is not responding to someones comments. If someone calls Tito some unfounded comments personally I delete them when I see them. I have to agree that he starts a lot of trouble. Maybe that's the persona he purveys to generate contraversy and get attention, or maybe it's really him. Only he and God know for sure

P.s. I'm moving this to the Pride /UFC forum since it's a pride topic. I had already started one about this in the MMa lo9unge, and 4 others have been tried to start, so people must want to talk about it.
szucconi
6/13/07 10:16:06PM

Posted by Lord_Lenny


Posted by szucconi


agreed. Nubby, you should read this and think about Tito Ortiz.




First of all sorry to get even more off subject, but i have wanted to say this for a long time

Since when has tito ever raped someone though. It honestly pisses me off that tito seems to be the only one people can bash on this site. Then anytime anyone stands up for him, that person is automatically labled a nutthugger. People here can make fun of his mexican background, his family (jenna), and try to cut his entire career down after losing to a top notch fighter (chuck). Just because the majority of people on this site dislike him, hes the only fighter that people can bash. If i made a game where you kicked GSP's head,and posted a link to it here, it would cause an uproar. The thread would be deleted within seconds. By that definition there are so many GSP nuthuggers that are never called out on their nutthuggery. St. Pierre lost to a less than top notch fighter and he's like a god to some people here, he can come out after a loss and take away from matt serra's win and everyone defended him. I was the only one who spoke out against him in the thread about him saying he didnt train for the Serra fight, and i get a warning about fighter bashing. Whereas when Tito tries to get some hype BEFORE a fight people can trash him way worse than what i said about GSP

The fact is that he is a fighter who got me into MMA, who has only lost to the best, who helped the sport grow, who is still helping the sport grow, who entertains me. If defending him because of those reasons, labels me as a nutthugger, then send me a pair of ass-less chaps, and find me a comfortable spot on Tito's sack



I mentioned nubby because of two threads we chated on. On one, he didn't want to give Rashad Evans a shot against Tito and I disagreed. The other we were compairing rampage and Tito (a fight that may never happen because they are training partners and friends) I thought Rampage would be a clear favorite and he disagreed. He wanted to give the advantage to Tito because Tito in a good wrestler and Rampage wouldn't have an answer for his GnP style. I never bashed Ortiz and he never said anything to outragous, but he didn't give an inch and it felt like I was
johny_rotten
6/14/07 12:53:07AM
I am the biggest Pride nut hugger here. I would watch any Pride event over any UFC event. My favorite fighters are all from Pride, I think they had better rules, and I loved how I got to watch all 9 fights I paid for rather than 4-6 of the 9. That being said I don't buy what Maurillo(sp?) said. He isn't a fighter. He wasn't offererd this bonus, nor would he be in the room when this bonus was offererd. If this is true or not the fights speak for them selves. There are some fishy fights that have taken place no one can deny that. The other fishy thing is most of those fights that look a little fishy a Japanise fighter was the winner.

This doesn't change my opion that Pride had the better product. Curruption is a part of sports. Can any sport make the claim that the "fix hasn't been in?" Combative sports are the most vaurnable to curruption. You only need to pay off one guy. Fighters historicly are the worst paid, and have the shortest career.

The bottom line is this is a non issue. Pride already paid the price for this. We all know the story, mob guy, lost TV deal, and sold to Zuffa. It doesn't take away from the wars we saw from Japan.

Ultimate_fighter
6/14/07 1:20:08AM

Posted by kerazzle

hppysmacker is pretty much dead on. When theres a mistake with Pride it does not mean that the UFC is perfect and better. They both have their ups and downs. Pride had some very odd ways of doing business.

Believe-in-judo81
6/14/07 3:11:25AM

Posted by szucconi

This makes sense, but its still dirty. It compromises the integrity of the fight and of the sport when you try to dictate the action in the ring. This type of bonus is to directly interfering with the match. A monetary reward for an exciting fight is one thing, but getting more money if you lose is dirty. The bonus specifically asks a fighter to put his career on the line and not tap for as little as 2K. Its one thing to not tap on a choke, but an arm bar or some other submission could result in a compound fracture or severe ligament damage. Any bonus for losing is dirty.

Fight of the night bonus is a much better way of rewarding effort and making fights exciting. There should never be a scenario where a fighter can make more money if he loses. What make fight of the night such a great idea is the other bonuses. Knockout of the night and submission of the night give dominant fighters an insentave to finish a fight quickly and not drag out a fight to try and get the fight of the night bonus.

Pride was horribly mismanaged and a part of me is glad that Pride is done. I knew that some Pride fights were works, but this is bad for MMA.



Your post nailed it man, end of thread, and huge props to you.