TUF 11 Finale Results/Discussion (Spoilers)

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BlueSkiesBurn
6/19/10 11:48:46PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

You're glossing over my point, though. Jardine was visibly hurt and reeling. Borderlining being finished by Hammil. That's why I don't think it was that bad of a call.



but my point is what correlation do being hurt and an ACCIDENTAL foul have? they are irrelevant.




NAC 467.688 Fouls: Deduction of points; effect of low blow. (NRS 467.030) 1. If an unarmed combatant fouls his opponent during a contest or exhibition or commits any other infraction, the referee may penalize him by deducting points from his score, whether or not the foul or infraction was intentional.


He changed what was happening with his foul and what Herb Dean was within the rules.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/19/10 11:49:30PM

Posted by Shawn91111


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


Won my AV bet, my parlay and 11 points all in the same fight!!!



Who the hell took McCray in an AV bet?



DCRage
Franklinfan47
6/19/10 11:50:00PM
Finished 7-3 with 52 points I think. Had a hard time with the finishes, but glad Court pulled out the win. He has a good story.
Shawn91111
6/19/10 11:50:41PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Shawn91111


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


Won my AV bet, my parlay and 11 points all in the same fight!!!



Who the hell took McCray in an AV bet?



DCRage





Thats not really shocking
Jackelope
6/19/10 11:56:02PM
Wow if that fight wasn't an example of a size mismatch at HW I don't know what is. I had no idea Travis Brown was that big lol. McSweeney needs to fight at LHW
Franklinfan47
6/19/10 11:56:27PM
Wow. McSweeney got crushed
kopower
6/19/10 11:57:18PM
Browne just held him down and unloaded on him.
mkiv9secsupra
6/20/10 12:00:00AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

You're glossing over my point, though. Jardine was visibly hurt and reeling. Borderlining being finished by Hammil. That's why I don't think it was that bad of a call.



but my point is what correlation do being hurt and an ACCIDENTAL foul have? they are irrelevant.




NAC 467.688 Fouls: Deduction of points; effect of low blow. (NRS 467.030) 1. If an unarmed combatant fouls his opponent during a contest or exhibition or commits any other infraction, the referee may penalize him by deducting points from his score, whether or not the foul or infraction was intentional.


He changed what was happening with his foul and what Herb Dean was within the rules.



ok yeah so why hasnt he taken points from EVERY SINGLE fighter that has been in the ring with him? you CANT find a fight without a foul, i guarantee you.
Jackelope
6/20/10 12:00:12AM
BTW- about the point deduction I never doubted that Dean was operating within the rules. I just thought he was enforcing them a little too heavily as compared to the norm there. I can't recall ever seeing an eye poke point deduction similar to that one.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 12:02:51AM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

You're glossing over my point, though. Jardine was visibly hurt and reeling. Borderlining being finished by Hammil. That's why I don't think it was that bad of a call.



but my point is what correlation do being hurt and an ACCIDENTAL foul have? they are irrelevant.




NAC 467.688 Fouls: Deduction of points; effect of low blow. (NRS 467.030) 1. If an unarmed combatant fouls his opponent during a contest or exhibition or commits any other infraction, the referee may penalize him by deducting points from his score, whether or not the foul or infraction was intentional.


He changed what was happening with his foul and what Herb Dean was within the rules.



ok yeah so why hasnt he taken points from EVERY SINGLE fighter that has been in the ring with him? you CANT find a fight without a foul, i guarantee you.



Was every fighter that committed the foul on the brink of being finished?
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 12:04:38AM

Posted by Jackelope

BTW- about the point deduction I never doubted that Dean was operating within the rules. I just thought he was enforcing them a little too heavily as compared to the norm there. I can't recall ever seeing an eye poke point deduction similar to that one.



I totally see where you're coming from, Jackelope. Normally, I would agree but I'm fairly certain Jardine was about to be dropped there and his eye poke stopped Hammil's onslaught. It completely changed what was happening at the time, that's why I don't think it was that harsh.
mkiv9secsupra
6/20/10 12:36:39AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
. Normally, I would agree but I'm fairly certain Jardine was about to be dropped there and his eye poke stopped Hammil's onslaught.



THAT IS YOUR OPPINION AND IN NO WAY A FACT!!!!! the eye poke has nothing to do with being finished it is simple as that. dean called it a foul obviously as it should have been, the problem is the point taken was harsh for a first time offense and he didnt take point from anyone else that night
telnights
6/20/10 12:47:27AM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
. Normally, I would agree but I'm fairly certain Jardine was about to be dropped there and his eye poke stopped Hammil's onslaught.



THAT IS YOUR OPPINION AND IN NO WAY A FACT!!!!! the eye poke has nothing to do with being finished it is simple as that. dean called it a foul obviously as it should have been, the problem is the point taken was harsh for a first time offense and he didnt take point from anyone else that night



Just like you saying the point deduction was harsh is your opinion. Not to say I agree with either of you but I hate it when people point out someone's opinion when it wasn't present as anything other than his opinion.
mkiv9secsupra
6/20/10 12:48:58AM

Posted by telnights


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn
. Normally, I would agree but I'm fairly certain Jardine was about to be dropped there and his eye poke stopped Hammil's onslaught.



THAT IS YOUR OPPINION AND IN NO WAY A FACT!!!!! the eye poke has nothing to do with being finished it is simple as that. dean called it a foul obviously as it should have been, the problem is the point taken was harsh for a first time offense and he didnt take point from anyone else that night



Just like you saying the point deduction was harsh is your opinion. Not to say I agree with either of you but I hate it when people point out someone's opinion when it wasn't present as anything other than his opinion.




but my point isnt based on oppinion... he didnt take points away from anyone else.
telnights
6/20/10 12:57:40AM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra
but my point isnt based on oppinion... he didnt take points away from anyone else.



Yes it is your opinion. Also your going to tell me you know every fight he has reffed that he has never taken a point away for an eye poke. It was also the Ref's opinion that the eye poke was bad enough to warrant a point deduction. Like it or not its all opinion based when it comes to something like this.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 1:02:38AM
Look, mkiv9secsupra, fouls are circumstantial. This is why it is in the referee's discretion as to whether or not they will deduct a point. He doesn't HAVE to do so. It was probably Herb Dean's OPINION, just as it is mine, that he saw that Hammil was on the verge of finishing that fight before the foul took place. Because Jardine fouled him, stopping the barrage of punches he was taking to the face, Hammil collapsed to the canvas allowing Jardine a break and time to recover that he would have otherwise not been afforded. Nobody is saying it wasn't accidental. But his accidental foul COMPLETELY changed what was happening at the time and gave Jardine a break that he should not have gotten. Point deduction seems fair in this CIRCUMSTANCE, regardless of other circumstances.

I am not arguing every other call or non-call, I am arguing that in THIS instance, it was legit.
Jackelope
6/20/10 1:11:02AM
I think telnight's is right. Both sides probably have a valid argument but what it all boils down to is opinion. This isn't an argument that can be won on either side since the subject matter isn't one that can be debated with concrete facts.

It is my opinion that the point deduction wasn't necessary, but I can live with other people not seeing it the same way.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 1:21:13AM

Posted by Jackelope

I think telnight's is right. Both sides probably have a valid argument but what it all boils down to is opinion. This isn't an argument that can be won on either side since the subject matter isn't one that can be debated with concrete facts.

It is my opinion that the point deduction wasn't necessary, but I can live with other people not seeing it the same way.



Pretty much, I've been saying it's my opinion the entire time. The only thing I was trying to do was to get people to see why, maybe, Herb Dean felt a point deduction was warranted. I wasn't trying to convince anyone that they should agree with me as much as giving an explanation for why Herb Dean may have thought the punishment fit the crime.

My problem was attacking Herb Dean saying he's horrible because of this call. I can think of far more egregious reffing mistakes. This one doesn't even make my top twenty. I know, as a fighter, if I were close to finishing a fight and I got poked in the eye, be it accidental or not, I'd be pretty pissed that I had someone on the ropes and had to stop. Herb Dean hasn't made my list of ref's that I think shouldn't have jobs anymore. Not that it matters for this argument but even Dana thinks Herb is the best.
mkiv9secsupra
6/20/10 1:24:29AM
******* BAN ME. IF U THINK HERB HAD A GOOD DECISION THEN THE FACT IS YOUY WERE WRONG
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 1:26:04AM
Alright man, you're right, I'm wrong. It's cool, I don't want to get all worked up about it. I'll just stop posting.

EDIT: this isn't sarcasm either. I no longer see the point in posting when someone is just gonna tell me I'm wrong and that's it.
Jackelope
6/20/10 1:35:54AM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

******* BAN ME. IF U THINK HERB HAD A GOOD DECISION THEN THE FACT IS YOUY WERE WRONG



Relax, dude... nobody is going to ban you. Well... not over the call but maybe over childish outbursts. Really, man... it's no big deal.
Shawn91111
6/20/10 1:37:57AM
You see what herb does to people
ncordless
6/20/10 3:00:18AM

Posted by Shawn91111

You see what herb does to people



I thought it just made people get the munchies.
Caesarrrr
6/20/10 10:19:21AM
Once again, they demolished my picsks. fml.
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