Troy Waugh » MMA General » UFC Forum » Troy Waugh
2/8/09 1:58:34AM
Did the best job he could of ruining UFN 17 for me. I don't just mean because one of my picks lost, but as a fan of the sport it's hard to tune in and see terrible calls so frequently that you actually expect them to happen on every single card. Troy is the latest in a long string of officiators who just don't seem to know what the hell they're doing. Luckily for the fighters, they didn't leave the judges with very much judging to do, because they would surely have been equally incompetent.

I'm talking specifically about the Veach vs Grice stoppage. I would love for someone to make 2 gifs, one of Veach when he got rocked, and another of Grice when the fight was stopped so that everyone can see them side by side for maximum effect. The situation started out the same for both fighters, they got rocked on the feet and fell to the ground. When Veach dropped, Grice postured up and rained down approximately 15 huge haymakers that landed flush on Veach's face while his hands were nowhere close to his face... Fastforward to Grice getting dropped and watch how Veach follows up. He starts throwing hammerfists while Grice covers his head and swivels his upper body to dodge and block. Veach lands about 3-4 hammerfists on Grice's CHEST and SHOULDERS, followed by ONE clean punch snuck between Grice's arms and Waugh calls the fight with something like 30 seconds left in the round.

I've never seen such inconsistant reffing in my life. Both guys are in the same situation, rocked but not out, one of them proceeds to get punched repeatedly in the face with very hard shots, making little effort to block them while another one covers up, eats some weak hammerfists to the chest and the fight is called instantly.

The refs and judges are ruining the sport. I can't tune in and watch fights without expecting someone to get completely screwed over. It happens every. single. card. Either a bad decision, an unwarranted split decision, a bad stoppage, a bad standup, even just a plain old bad call (eyepoke TKO victory anyone?) It's so bad, I'm getting to a point where I don't even want to watch it anymore. I can't take any more of these guys ruining my favourite sport and screwing with fighters' livelihoods and health.

I'm furious that this has gone on so long and no one does anything about it. No one even tries to do anything about it, it's unacceptable. MMA is not boxing, nor is it kickboxing. MMA should not have boxing's judges, refs, and scoring systems. There needs to be judges and refs trained in MMA. I'm going to stop paying for UFC payperviews pretty soon. These guys need to get **** canned, something needs to change, I'm not going to continue paying to see refs and judges repeatedly making terrible decisions and drastically decreasing the quality of the cards. (I realize this event was free, but most are not and it happens on every payperview as well)

2/8/09 2:18:56AM
I have to agree that stoppage was horible, and if anything the fight should have been stopped during Grice's GNP, and not when it was, Waugh has officailly dropped to my penaltimate(2nd to last) favorite ref, only in front of Dan Mirgilioatta.
2/8/09 10:39:37AM
Yeah that was a bad Stop and it seems like ther have been a lot of questionable calls lately?
Who is in charge of who the Refs are????
2/8/09 11:49:48AM
The problem with refs and judges right now is that since the sport is still somewhat new, officials are having a hard time defining what requires a stoppage, or what should be awarded points during scoring, and as a result we get some weird or "bad" stoppages and decisions. Its unfortunate
2/8/09 12:46:19PM
Pretty good rant if you ask me. I'm glad someone else noticed and mentioned in another thread that one of the refs (don't remember which one) was actually telling a fighter to get his feet off the cage. Since when is having your feet on the cage illegal?

Can't wait to see the .gif's you asked for. Hopefully someone will come through
2/8/09 12:58:21PM
After every event these threads come up. In fact, after every sporting event I've ever seen someone is complaining about some of the officiating. Refs aren't perfect. I almost wish the same thing would be done w/ this subject as was done w/ "where can I watch UFC" and "Penn St Pierre III"

BTW, wrapping your toes around the cage is grabbing the same as w/ your fingers. That was what was called. It was legit and doesn't get called often enuf when it happens.
2/8/09 1:14:48PM
A couple of things on this thread:
To answer the question asked about who determines the refs: The State Athletic Commission or (in some states) Boxing Commission that regulates MMA in the state. They and NOT the individual promotions determine who works each card and each fight. UFC has no control over them, as much as Dana might not like it.

On grabbing the cage: As noted above, holding with toes is really the same as holding it with the fingers, so in that one fight where we saw it a lot that I felt was the right call.

Try to not be so negative and bash the refs too much, they are only human too and not perfect. (And I nearly closed this thread after reading it)
2/8/09 1:16:43PM
I didn't like the stoppage at all either. When Veach was making his comback I thought "this is the fight I'm going to point to where people say early stoppages are justified, Waugh did a great job letting the fight go!"

Then Waugh completely ***** himself by stopping the fight a bit early for Grice.

My biggest problem is inconsistaint Reffing. If you think his stoppages are good or bad, you ALWAYS KNOW Yves Lavigne is going to let a fight go a little longer than average. Yves is very consistaint with his stoppages. BJM is extremely consistaint with his stoppages. Herb Dean tends to stop fights early for my taste, but he stops them early CONSISTAINTLY.

What pisses me off are referees like Miagliotta, Mazzagatti, and Waugh that are widly inconsistaint in when they stop fights from fight-to-fight. Although, I think Waugh broke some kind of record in being wildly inconsistaint IN THE SAME FIGHT!
2/8/09 2:59:59PM

Posted by Franklinfan47

The problem with refs and judges right now is that since the sport is still somewhat new, officials are having a hard time defining what requires a stoppage, or what should be awarded points during scoring, and as a result we get some weird or "bad" stoppages and decisions. Its unfortunate

agreed, especially on the judges side, you have to admit that mma is a very difficult sport to judge because there are so many places a fight can go and so many strikes, and grappling techniques a guy can use. i certainly wouldn't want to be a judge, especially lately because the fights have been so close.

as far as officials go, it's tough when it comes to stoppages, we don't know what waugh saw when he stopped, he obviously felt that grice was out at the time, i do disagree but he definitely saw something. but refs have definitely been inconsistent lately, and just about all of them have had their moments, even the best (rosenthal, lavigne, yamasaki, dean).
2/8/09 3:13:00PM
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2/8/09 5:07:42PM
He'll be back (actually, he sort of already is). When is up to the State Athletic Commissions.
2/8/09 5:10:46PM

Posted by DCRage

He'll be back (actually, he sort of already is). When is up to the State Athletic Commissions.

He ref'd the Fedor AA fight.
2/8/09 5:57:25PM
i thaught it was jorge ortiz in veach vs grice fight but it was a **** call
2/8/09 5:59:15PM
I have been involved in MMA since 94 and the judging and reffing has become more inconsistent in the past year than it ever has been.

Some Refs have been so inconsistent in their calls as of late you almost have to call it favoritism. I made a TOPIC about this after the last event to open up talks to see what everyone thought we needed to do to fix the issue. I know its a growing sport but why has this become such an issue now and not 3-5 years ago.
2/8/09 6:05:47PM
I thought the Grice/Veach figth was called correectly. Veach hit the ground and was defending. He used his arms and legs at first to try and gain separation, then he was trying to hold him down to sweep. On the other hand Grice went down much harder and did nothing to defend, his hands we at his sides. Then got hit....IN THE TEMPLE with 4-5 hammerfists and a huge left hook. It could have gone for another minute but that only ends with Grice unconscious.
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