The today's forum drama post

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Shawn91111
4/26/13 2:31:56PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

When I first signed up on PG, I remember saying something like this..

"I'm usually well received where ever I go but after a while, things tend to become dull and conflicts ignite more frequently as members become more comfortable/complacent and or less respectful with each other."

Some of you will remain good friends. Some of you will learn to dislike each others' guts ( I'm part of this group btw ). Some of you will learn to tolerate each other. The PG is like a job site. There are those you click with and there are those you can't stand. And there is usually a guy or gal who gets along well with everyone and that guy is Rabi (Rabilike guy).

Rabi, you're a well-liked guy. You'll make friends where ever you go.

I have never said I won't be posting on this site anymore but I think my heart left a long time ago already. It's difficult to put up posts when you feel like an outcast. I don't feel that 'close knit' which I felt during my first year here anymore. Shawn, can you give me a hug?




george112
4/26/13 2:44:43PM
^^


funniest thing ive seen all day
MMAcca
4/26/13 3:31:34PM
Goes without saying that Rabi put a lot of time and effort into the site and it is a shame that he's made the decision to leave, because that's one less player of a great game that doesn't get enough recognition imo.

But.....
KungFuMaster
4/26/13 3:33:07PM

Posted by Shawn91111


Posted by KungFuMaster

When I first signed up on PG, I remember saying something like this..

"I'm usually well received where ever I go but after a while, things tend to become dull and conflicts ignite more frequently as members become more comfortable/complacent and or less respectful with each other."

Some of you will remain good friends. Some of you will learn to dislike each others' guts ( I'm part of this group btw ). Some of you will learn to tolerate each other. The PG is like a job site. There are those you click with and there are those you can't stand. And there is usually a guy or gal who gets along well with everyone and that guy is Rabi (Rabilike guy).

Rabi, you're a well-liked guy. You'll make friends where ever you go.

I have never said I won't be posting on this site anymore but I think my heart left a long time ago already. It's difficult to put up posts when you feel like an outcast. I don't feel that 'close knit' which I felt during my first year here anymore. Shawn, can you give me a hug?







Would you do it for one scooby snack?
KungFuMaster
4/26/13 3:36:13PM

Posted by george112

^^


funniest thing ive seen all day



I don't know if you're aware but Shawn and I are best of buds. Not only will he give me a hug, he'll give me a wet 'n sloppy one too.
Shawn91111
4/26/13 3:47:49PM



There ya go
Svartorm
4/27/13 3:08:30PM
Very interesting.

I'd like to start off by saying I don't really know Rabi at all, yet I'm one of the longest standing members of this site, a former mod, a possible writer for the "new" MMAPG and a member of the MMA community at large. My only involvement with him was on a podcast I did where he was also a guest, and was contacted to do said show via PM. I was glad to do it.

Two things strike me about this situation:

1. Rabi did more for the site and MMA than almost anyone here. I used links to his project all the time to research UK fighters, and even some Americans he managed to snag interviews with. This was critical to some of my extracurricular work (ie gambling) and made sense in context of the Secondary League. Why would you even attempt to make soup grapes with someone like that?

2. Fantasy MMA isn't the same as buying something online. My restaurant competes with local restaurants because you only buy one lunch a day. Everyone plays every fantasy MMA site however. My Saturday routine, which I'm sure is shared by the majority of the forum, is to bang in here to make my picks/wagers, head over the Sherdog to make my picks, and then head over the UFC.com to make my picks. I don't personally use MMAvictor because they don't have prizes to my knowledge, but the fact remains, if you play somewhere, you'll probably play everywhere. That's not a competitor, that's a community.

I've pushed my own work across channels on here before, even though I know it's against the rules, because quite frankly, there's nothing else going on. This site has been dying for years and I figure anything going on the forum is better than cyber tumbleweeds.

In short, stupid move Jay.
Franklinfan47
4/27/13 3:13:12PM
Shawn91111
4/27/13 4:07:17PM

Posted by Svartorm

Very interesting.

I'd like to start off by saying I don't really know Rabi at all, yet I'm one of the longest standing members of this site, a former mod, a possible writer for the "new" MMAPG and a member of the MMA community at large. My only involvement with him was on a podcast I did where he was also a guest, and was contacted to do said show via PM. I was glad to do it.

Two things strike me about this situation:

1. Rabi did more for the site and MMA than almost anyone here. I used links to his project all the time to research UK fighters, and even some Americans he managed to snag interviews with. This was critical to some of my extracurricular work (ie gambling) and made sense in context of the Secondary League. Why would you even attempt to make soup grapes with someone like that?

2. Fantasy MMA isn't the same as buying something online. My restaurant competes with local restaurants because you only buy one lunch a day. Everyone plays every fantasy MMA site however. My Saturday routine, which I'm sure is shared by the majority of the forum, is to bang in here to make my picks/wagers, head over the Sherdog to make my picks, and then head over the UFC.com to make my picks. I don't personally use MMAvictor because they don't have prizes to my knowledge, but the fact remains, if you play somewhere, you'll probably play everywhere. That's not a competitor, that's a community.

I've pushed my own work across channels on here before, even though I know it's against the rules, because quite frankly, there's nothing else going on. This site has been dying for years and I figure anything going on the forum is better than cyber tumbleweeds.

In short, stupid move Jay.




But is it not a business? Does Yahoo fantasy football or their fantasy sports promote ESPN's or CBS Sports fanasty football? It's all a business regardless if you head over to sherdog, or ufc or tapology or wherever.

Was this not why half of the 360 mafia was banned. Now I dont know the entire story of it but was that not the just of it
Svartorm
4/27/13 6:13:22PM
Still a business, but not one that is mutually exclusive. In fact, you could argue that someone gaining in an interest in fantasy MMA is better served with multiple sites rather than one.

I know what he did, and I don't see an issue with it for the simple fact this place with NEVER be updated or improved upon. The folks in charge simply can't be bothered and found it more acceptable to boot someone who contributed 10000x more than the guys who actually own the joint.

As for 360 mafia, the site itself came about after some folks were thrown out, not the other way around.
cowcatcher
4/28/13 1:26:54AM
Svar, we've been here forever and I agree with some of the things you've said for sure. You're a guy I've respected since day one and someone I like on a personal level. Although we might disagree on this, I think that removing Rabi as a mod was the right move considering he was working with another site though. You surely hit on some good points though.

Like you basically said, he's contributed more to this place than anyone I can think of offhand outside of maybe hippysmacker in the early days of the site. He's as valuable a member as we've had in years and I'd be 100% for doing whatever it takes to try to get him to come back to the site. He loves this place as much as the people here love him and that's a lot. I haven't been on many forums as a real contributor, but I've never seen anyone as dedicated to making a site more fun for the other users as Rabi has. On top of that, he always carries himself with dignity and is decent to everyone even when it's someone he doesn't get along with. He's just a great guy, I know this firsthand.

Even though there are a lot of fantasy MMA sites, the owners here have to look out for their best interests. Community or not, their job is to look out for number 1, period. I'll never disagree with that, and I love this place and don't want to see it fail for any reason.

I just wish things had been handled in a different way with Rabi and it could have been more amicable. It especially hits home for me that things weren't handled as well as they could have been because I was in Rabi's camp and that guy ran the single best camp on the PG, bar none.

I'm holding out hope that our guy comes back and any bad blood can be set aside and we can continue to try to make this place a fun place for people to play MMA fantasy.
Svartorm
4/28/13 1:50:48AM
That's just it though, if you're looking out for number one, why scare off someone that actually drew views to the site? It's utterly stupid and likely jealousy-fueled garbage from the guilty party. You're fighting over page views by scaring off someone who was clearly well-liked by the majority of the site, judging by comments and props received.

I understand the issue with him being a mod, but I've been a mod too. There is really nothing you can do with the information at your disposal, expect perhaps to tediously copy e-mail addresses. As for the ideas that might or might not have wound up elsewhere, they will never be implemented here. Ever. As someone who may have planted a seed or two for Rabi to reap, I'd be happy to know an idea is being used rather than left in a Mod forum collecting dust.

I don't know Rabi, but if he's still welcome here, there's no reason for him to avoid the place.
cowcatcher
4/28/13 2:00:11AM

Posted by Svartorm

I don't know Rabi, but if he's still welcome here, there's no reason for him to avoid the place.



It's not like you don't have valid points, and they're all well taken, but I especially want to touch on this last one.

I HOPE TO HELL that Rabi knows this and will continue to be the top notch member of the forums that he has been for 5 or so years. That's what really matters most to me personally.
ncordless
4/28/13 2:05:50AM

Posted by Svartorm

That's just it though, if you're looking out for number one, why scare off someone that actually drew views to the site? It's utterly stupid and likely jealousy-fueled garbage from the guilty party. You're fighting over page views by scaring off someone who was clearly well-liked by the majority of the site, judging by comments and props received.

I understand the issue with him being a mod, but I've been a mod too. There is really nothing you can do with the information at your disposal, expect perhaps to tediously copy e-mail addresses. As for the ideas that might or might not have wound up elsewhere, they will never be implemented here. Ever. As someone who may have planted a seed or two for Rabi to reap, I'd be happy to know an idea is being used rather than left in a Mod forum collecting dust.

I don't know Rabi, but if he's still welcome here, there's no reason for him to avoid the place.



He is still welcome here for sure. The thing didn't have to go down like it did. Hopefully people cool off a bit and we can get past this.

There is definitely a discussion to be had about how an online traffic based business can maximize its hits. I have been of the opinion that we should liberalize the news share rules and allow people to link to their own off-site content. Outside the game, people come here for news. The more the better, as long as minimum standards are met. Why tell someone who creates content that they can't post it here because they are a member? If Dave Meltzer joins the PG, does that mean no more Dave Meltzer pieces? I will continue to bring that up when we discuss ways to do things better.
george112
4/28/13 2:33:29AM
Things have changed soo much since ive joined.
ive seen ALL the top posters come and go.
Svartorm
4/28/13 10:24:14AM

Posted by ncordless

He is still welcome here for sure. The thing didn't have to go down like it did. Hopefully people cool off a bit and we can get past this.

There is definitely a discussion to be had about how an online traffic based business can maximize its hits. I have been of the opinion that we should liberalize the news share rules and allow people to link to their own off-site content. Outside the game, people come here for news. The more the better, as long as minimum standards are met. Why tell someone who creates content that they can't post it here because they are a member? If Dave Meltzer joins the PG, does that mean no more Dave Meltzer pieces? I will continue to bring that up when we discuss ways to do things better.



I couldn't tell you what rules are actually written out for news, but you bring up a good point of where you draw the line. Content is content and I don't see why it should be limited, provided it's MMA. Worse case scenario, people won't read it if they don't care and it'll shuffle down the news page without being bumped up. No harm, no foul.
ncordless
4/28/13 3:03:06PM

Posted by Svartorm

I couldn't tell you what rules are actually written out for news, but you bring up a good point of where you draw the line. Content is content and I don't see why it should be limited, provided it's MMA. Worse case scenario, people won't read it if they don't care and it'll shuffle down the news page without being bumped up. No harm, no foul.



I do think it is possible to weed out some content to keep the site accessible and useful, I am just saying let more through and don't get so hung up on the poster's relation author. For instance, there is a line where things cross over from news to ads. If a t-shirt company posts "news" about how soft its t-shirt is, that's not something people come to the news forum for. Similarly, I think there is a line between news and a tweet. Sometimes a tweet becomes newsworthy, but I don't want to see the forum filled up with retweets from Nate Mohr or Paul Kelly.

Obviously, that's not a problem right now. But there is a place for a filter. I just think the filter should be changed to not harm people who come to this site and would like to share the content they made on other sites. I think your greatest insight earlier was recognizing that clicks aren't finite and sites can generate clicks off each other rather than competing for them. Under that rubric, it is all about the quality of association. It seems like manipulating the quality of the content to hold a certain floor helps that.
jakewalters
4/28/13 5:45:48PM
All of you are making extremely salient points, and I don't want to get too deep into the conversation.. just wanted to share a story from last year. I think it was July or August.

Anyhow, I had just finished a podcast with Chris Leben. It's one of my favorite episodes, even still, as he shares some crazy stories with us. I posted a link to the interview in three places. Here, Sherdog, and the Underground. (I post on all three. 80% here, 14% UG, 1% Sherdog).

Sherdog didn't do anything with my post. Let it sit there while teenage commenters talked about boobs or something stupid.

I don't know if it was this episode or the next, but after I posted I believe two I got a PM from a moderator (it may have been Jay, I forget now) that told me to knock it off. It wasn't worded that harshly, in fact it was worded pretty eloquently from what I recall. But the main message was to stop promoting the show on the forum.

MixedMartialArts.com sent me an email after posting on the UG. I assumed it was going to be a message like the PG's telling me to knock it off. Instead it was an email from management thanking me for being part of the community, and giving me a free blue name.

So from doing the same thing three different places: one did nothing, one told me to stop, and the other rewarded me.

Not to say ___ was right and ___ was wrong, but I found it interesting that no two sites reacted the same.
prophecy033
4/28/13 5:58:04PM

Posted by jakewalters

All of you are making extremely salient points, and I don't want to get too deep into the conversation.. just wanted to share a story from last year. I think it was July or August.

Anyhow, I had just finished a podcast with Chris Leben. It's one of my favorite episodes, even still, as he shares some crazy stories with us. I posted a link to the interview in three places. Here, Sherdog, and the Underground. (I post on all three. 80% here, 14% UG, 1% Sherdog).

Sherdog didn't do anything with my post. Let it sit there while teenage commenters talked about boobs or something stupid.

I don't know if it was this episode or the next, but after I posted I believe two I got a PM from a moderator (it may have been Jay, I forget now) that told me to knock it off. It wasn't worded that harshly, in fact it was worded pretty eloquently from what I recall. But the main message was to stop promoting the show on the forum.

MixedMartialArts.com sent me an email after posting on the UG. I assumed it was going to be a message like the PG's telling me to knock it off. Instead it was an email from management thanking me for being part of the community, and giving me a free blue name.

So from doing the same thing three different places: one did nothing, one told me to stop, and the other rewarded me.

Not to say ___ was right and ___ was wrong, but I found it interesting that no two sites reacted the same.

soooooo....what do you do with the other 5%
jakewalters
4/28/13 6:00:05PM

Posted by prophecy033

soooooo....what do you do with the other 5%



MyFreeCams.com
george112
4/28/13 6:07:21PM

Posted by jakewalters


Posted by prophecy033

soooooo....what do you do with the other 5%



MyFreeCams.com




BOING

Tent Pitched
warglory
4/28/13 10:40:44PM
Simply put, no one person should get freebie passes to post links to their own site's content, while others are sidelined. Period. Rabi is indeed a great individual from what I can tell, with a huge passion for the sport, but he is one person on a community forum. You can't rely on one person for the success of this business, especially when that business is community driven.

Whatever deal the PG struck with Rabi, it doesn't sound like it was official. Rabi had no official stake in the PG, and the PG had no official stake in his site. This seems like a deal where breaks were given to Rabi because he was an extremely active member of the site.

This is problematic because it's completely and utterly juvenile, and NOT the correct way to run a money making enterprise, if that is what you are concerned about.

What should have happened was an official deal brokered between the two camps, so that the advertising system that Rabi eventually went with, was filled by the PG instead. Rabi I'm sure would have gone with this, as it would have probably been a logical route given his passion for the PG. Instead, it got incestuous, like two friends making backroom deals simply because they are buddies; that shit never ends well.

In the end, special permission should not have been given to Rabi to promote his website content as normal member of the community, but the PG should not have been so heavy handed given the fact that the PG didn't take any real steps to develop an official relationship with Rabi's project.

I obviously don't know all the facts, but that is the way I am reading this scenario, and if it's true, it's absurd and makes both sides look silly.
KNIGHT
4/29/13 11:25:12PM

Posted by jakewalters


Posted by prophecy033

soooooo....what do you do with the other 5%



MyFreeCams.com


Wish i only spent 5% of my time on myfreecams
jakewalters
4/30/13 1:53:30PM
So.. the story I understood was that Ray upset the site by teaming up with another fantasy site so he was de-modded. That's understandable, I guess. Then Ray felt like he had been treated unfairly, so he left. Fine and good. He was welcome back if he ever wanted to, and that was that.


Now, Rabi WAS NOT banned, didn't have any of his achievements removed, and was free to post news items from his site still so long as they follow the site's rules like the other news posts. He just wasn't allowed to be a moderator and have freedom to promote and get away with recruiting people as he had reportedly done in the past.


Ray's now telling me his account is locked and he can't access the site? I know he sent a lot of us a PM but it wasn't saying anything like "HEY JOIN MY NEW SITE MMAVICTOR ITS THE BEST EVER!", it was more of a notification that he was leaving and contact info for all the friends he had made in his 10,000+ posts here at the PG.

This shit is getting out of hand, fellas.
Budgellism
4/30/13 2:49:36PM

Posted by jakewalters


Posted by prophecy033

soooooo....what do you do with the other 5%



MyFreeCams.com



KungFuMaster
5/1/13 12:28:15AM
When I was posting at ufc.com, some of us had issues with 5knuckles. Long story short - we went to war. Those were good times.

I doubt Rabi and the owner of this site would go to those lengths. It's foolish and it does nothing to promote both parties' sites.
jakewalters
5/1/13 1:02:19AM

Posted by KungFuMaster

When I was posting at ufc.com, some of us had issues with 5knuckles. Long story short - we went to war. Those were good times.

I doubt Rabi and the owner of this site would go to those lengths. It's foolish and it does nothing to promote both parties' sites.



jakewalters
5/1/13 1:19:08AM
So his account kept logging in late tonight when Ray would have been sleeping in the UK, and now it's gone. Talking to others, I assume administration were snooping around his account then just deleted the account upon completion. This is so absurd. Telling everyone that Ray is welcome to come back while in reality he's banned and someone is snooping around his personal shit.

I'm friends with most mods on this site, that's the thing that bugs me. I know none of them have anything to do with this. I have no problem with any moderators on this site, and actually respect the shit out of you for the work you put in here. You make my experience better along with everyone else's.

Jay, I know you haven't posted since the OP. Can you give us an explanation of what's going on right now? I'm not accusing anyone of anything here, but I'm curious to know why the stance went from "he's free to come back" to his account being axed.

EDIT: By the way.. just so my intentions are clear.. my podcast is affiliated with the other site now, but I don't want anyone to leave this site for the other. The MMA Playground has a much better and active forum along with a fantasy setup that I like more than any other site. I've been on this site a year and a half now, and I plan on being an active poster on this site for a long time. I'm just speaking on behalf of myself and a lot of people here who were friends of Ray and want to know what's going on. It's unfortunate that all this has to go down in public forum, but that ship sailed a while ago.
Svartorm
5/1/13 2:32:24PM
I can make this easy. It would actually be impossible for the mods to do that because they don't have access to passwords. All a mod could do would be to change their user profile info, which would not require them to log into that person's profile. Only Jay, Hippysmacker and maybe Fleek has that kind of access.
emfleek
5/1/13 2:49:24PM

Posted by Svartorm

I can make this easy. It would actually be impossible for the mods to do that because they don't have access to passwords. All a mod could do would be to change their user profile info, which would not require them to log into that person's profile. Only Jay, Hippysmacker and maybe Fleek has that kind of access.



Correct.
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