Anyone Tired Of...

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shinobi
7/16/07 2:16:48PM
Is anyone tired of seeing these fights that make no sense in the UFC particularly? An example would be Chuck Liddell vs. Keith Jardine. This makes no sense and benefits neither of them. Keith will most likely lose, and we won't see him too much after that, chuck will most likely win, advance to another title shot after one fight, and lose to rampage who imo will beat hendo, but thats not for certain. Wouldn't it be better to see shogun vs the iceman? The UFC claims to have the best fighters in the world, well, then let them fight. I might purchase the card for the other fights which are good. But once you've reached the elite level of competition, like rampage, shogun, chuck, wandy, you shouldn't be fighting anything less. Yes i know others need a chance to get to the top, but Jardine isn't going to get there by getting KO'd twice in a row, once to a no namer, and once to the previous champ. any thoughts?
casey64
7/16/07 2:29:30PM
shinobi
7/16/07 2:31:49PM
yeah it makes little sense. When you're in the olympics they don't go, "hey, here's a warm up match and another before the gold....
CwB
7/16/07 2:36:07PM
Ya it sucks for us hardcore fans that dana white and ufc create cards for the common, know nothing, casual fans that would much rather see chuck knock out jardine, a name they know, then see an extremely exciting fight between two of the top light heavies in the world.

I hope shogun gets a title fight against rampage/hendo after he destroys machida.

Then
I hope that wandy gets a fight in november then he and chuck can fight each other in early 08, winner getting a shot at the title.
shinobi
7/16/07 2:39:22PM
I like chuck liddell, but i dont want to see him go for the belt. I know MMA math doesn't always work, but wandy annihilated rampage, and rampage tooled chuck both times, made him look 2nd tier, i think its time for chuck to step down within a year.
SSfighter51
7/16/07 2:44:59PM
chuck is dana's poster boy, thats why i think hes gonna get stepping stone fighters so to speak...
shinobi
7/16/07 2:48:47PM
thats obvious though lol, but still man...
papercut
7/16/07 3:03:23PM

Posted by shinobi

I like chuck liddell, but i dont want to see him go for the belt. I know MMA math doesn't always work, but wandy annihilated rampage, and rampage tooled chuck both times, made him look 2nd tier, i think its time for chuck to step down within a year.



to the very first post and this
cmill21
7/16/07 3:13:46PM
I've been saying for the longest time, if chuck fights anyone who can strike he'll lose. Chuck beats up on wrestlers...wow how can dana give this man an easy fight and then another title shot? He's hoping hendo wins so it won't be liddell rampage 3. Chuck loses that third one(which he will) dana's going to be in a tough place. He says shogun will get a title shot, but shoguns after chuck and we can all agree shoguns been more impressive and machida is many times the fighter jardine is.
Stickan
7/16/07 3:27:54PM
I actually like this fight and I'm honestly just happy to see Chuck back in the cage so soon. I thought it would take another ½ year before we got to see him fight again.
Jardine is no walkover either. I think it can be a great great fight, especially since they're both coming off losses. Both have the opportunity to throw themselves into the title contention mix after this one.
cmill21
7/16/07 3:34:51PM
How does beating jardine put chuck in title contention? It damn well shoulden't! that's like saying beating heath puts babalu in contention, or beating houston puts sakara in contention.
SSfighter51
7/16/07 3:39:48PM

Posted by cmill21

How does beating jardine put chuck in title contention? It damn well shoulden't! that's like saying beating heath puts babalu in contention, or beating houston puts sakara in contention.



jardine just got smashed by houston. i dont even get why he gets to fight chuck...
Aether
7/16/07 4:14:31PM
because he was on TUF.
jdubs
7/16/07 4:21:05PM
if jardine k.o chuck will it make sense then??
nubby
7/16/07 4:39:37PM

Posted by jdubs

if jardine k.o chuck will it make sense then??


Nope, I don't think it will help Jardine or Chuck. If Jardine KO's chuck, Chuck's legacy will be destroyed and Jardine will just be seen as defeating a broken ex-champ. This fight does absolutely nothing for anyone involved. Jardine should be fighting Machida, and Liddell should be fighting Shogun or Silva. Houston Alexander should be fighting the winner of Rashad and Tito II.
SpiderSilva
7/16/07 5:13:11PM
How could you not look at Jardine if he beats Chuck.
Chuck was the UFCs man untill his loss
Chuck might not be the best but hes up there he ran trough everyone in the UFC untill Rampage came in
Shogun has done nothing in the UFC as well as Wandi until they come in and dominate like in Pride R.I.P. Chuck is still one of the top 3 guys in the UFC
So in the end if Jardine somehow beats the Iceman he has deffinetly taken two steps forward after taking a step back vs Houston plus who knows about Houston he might be the future only time will tell
JuggaloWarrior878
7/17/07 12:34:55AM
at least hes fighting someone who was a contender. I would of much rather see him fight wandy but i can understand that chuck wants to fight earlier to get the bad taste of a loss out of his mouth. . Props to Jardine for takin the fight that takes some guts riskin 2 losses in the ufc

P.S just be thankful hes not fightin elvis
Manfred
7/17/07 12:56:07AM
I'm tired of unspecific thread titles. Not trying to be a d*ck, but the subject is there for a reason.
cmill21
7/17/07 1:16:37AM
Wasted fight. If I live to see the dean of mean fight for the title I will cry. Like man sign overeem, lil nog, arona to fight chuck, hell soko's still availible sign him test his chin. Chuck can't handle strikers he's not that good at least the UFC is showing that by picking this fight, they don't want him against top competition yet.
ac_gi
7/17/07 4:31:58AM

Posted by Manfred

I'm tired of unspecific thread titles. Not trying to be a d*ck, but the subject is there for a reason.

Me too.
GrandMaster313
7/17/07 11:09:26AM
Can anyone tell me where the hell Jardine got a chance to fight Chuck in the first place??!!?! Oh ya I must have forgot the um......(*COUGH,COUGH*over rated) Forrest Griffen fight. Seriously I'm not worried about the middleweight division being weak anymore, I think the light Heavy is in trouble when Dana promotes a Chuck/Jarvine main event!
CwB
7/17/07 12:07:39PM
to all those who say chuck just beats up wrestlers and cant hang with standup fighters, look at his record. he has lost to one bjj guy, one wrestler, and one striker/wreslter.
He beat Overeem before, who is a top ten kick boxer in mma,
He beat Vitor in his prime and he was known for his stand up,
and a couple of other guys who had better then average standup.

the fact is Chuck has only lost two fights to one striker/wrestler and before his last knockout, we have seen him get rocked and get back up pretty quick so none of us really know how well he will do against other strikers.

Like rampage's trainer said, "Rampage has Chuck's number"
shinobi
7/17/07 9:39:22PM
Chuck vs overeem: in my opinion overeem is a bit overrated, he may be a good kickboxer etc, but in mma i just haven't seen it really. althought i do like overeem.

chuck vs rampage: if they fight for a 3rd time it'll be a repeat. Chuck is like ken shamrock, refusing to learn the ground game to a great extent. ken was great back in the day, but his ignorance cost him a few matches because his jj wasnt as great as others. chuck doesnt ever want to go to the ground, thats a huge problem in mma, the term Mixed Martial Artist is used to define those who can fight anywhere in any situation. Chuck hasn't shown this, he hides from the ground. i like chuck, but i dont see him as anything more than a glorified striker who can sprawl. look at randy vs chuck 1, goooooddddd daaammnn.

his fight with guy mezger however i thought was impressive. but chucks gas tank will cost him if he can make it into 3+ rounds with guys like wandy, ramoage, shogun etc.

BTW, i like the idea of Sok, Arona etc, wish they'd sign em.
junkie1
7/17/07 11:14:04PM
I totally agree liddel is settling for less this gonna do nothing for his career but damage it if he loses. liddel vs shogun definately.
mkiv9secsupra
7/18/07 12:15:29PM

Posted by shinobi
chuck vs rampage: if they fight for a 3rd time it'll be a repeat. Chuck is like ken shamrock, refusing to learn the ground game to a great extent. ken was great back in the day, but his ignorance cost him a few matches because his jj wasnt as great as others. chuck doesnt ever want to go to the ground, thats a huge problem in mma, the term Mixed Martial Artist is used to define those who can fight anywhere in any situation. Chuck hasn't shown this, he hides from the ground. i like chuck, but i dont see him as anything more than a glorified striker who can sprawl. look at randy vs chuck 1, goooooddddd daaammnn.



dont make me bring up Mirko....We all KNOW he can sub a fighter or two but he is NEVER going to go out with a game plan to try and sub someone. If mirko had Liddells sprawl you wouldnt see Mirko hit the mat for a few submission attempts or GnP. Both Liddell and Mirko have been trained in submissions but the smartest gameplan they can have is to stand the entire fight which is their bread and butter.....

Shamrock was ALWAYS a very rounded fighter FYI....
shinobi
7/18/07 4:58:11PM
i know shamrock was, he's my fave fighter, i just feel his ignorance about JJ has cost him, he coulda been better for his time by learning it, and when he started to decline, it wouldn't have been as badly. i agree, your best asset should be your best option, however i think chuck's skills are limited. rampage is a better striker imo and it showed in both fights, maybe chuck should attempt a gnp? might work.

also , wouldnt it be a better matchup say...bonnar vs chuck, and have had jardine fight nickels? makes more sense in terms of skillset, popularity, and career wise. bonnar is a golden gloves champ, so it'd be a good boxing war between the two. imo
cmill21
7/18/07 5:07:13PM
Chuck should only be fighting guys in the top 8 in the LHW div. end of discussion. If you can justify to me why he's ranks #3 and fighting guys not even in the top 15 then I will understand this fight. This is a hughs lytle fight, do you think huges deserves a shot at the title after beating lytle? why is GSP fighting a guy in the top 5 to get a title shot and huges is fighting maybe a top 20? Chuck's going to win this fight look great to all the UFC casuals, get a shot maybe even before shogun, he'll lose and we'll do it all over again.
shinobi
7/18/07 5:13:41PM
very much
Piccosaur
7/18/07 5:23:42PM

Posted by cmill21

Wasted fight. If I live to see the dean of mean fight for the title I will cry. Like man sign overeem, lil nog, arona to fight chuck, hell soko's still availible sign him test his chin. Chuck can't handle strikers he's not that good at least the UFC is showing that by picking this fight, they don't want him against top competition yet.



Rampage and Ortiz aren't top competition? Rampage came in and almost immediatly took Chuck's title. They aren't afraid of him losing. Maybe if Wandy accepted to fight instead of saying he would rather fight later in the year, he wouldn't have to beat up on lower competition.
mkiv9secsupra
7/18/07 5:48:33PM

Posted by cmill21

Chuck should only be fighting guys in the top 8 in the LHW div. end of discussion. If you can justify to me why he's ranks #3 and fighting guys not even in the top 15 then I will understand this fight. This is a hughs lytle fight, do you think huges deserves a shot at the title after beating lytle? why is GSP fighting a guy in the top 5 to get a title shot and huges is fighting maybe a top 20? Chuck's going to win this fight look great to all the UFC casuals, get a shot maybe even before shogun, he'll lose and we'll do it all over again.



Chuck SHOULD only be fighting top 8 LHW fighters. The only conclusion i can come to for this fight is just a warm up fight to get the KO loss outta his mind. Chuck hasnt had the ability to fight the top 5 LHW because 4 of them were in pride. The Liddell/Rampage 2 fight was a mess up on Chucks part and he got caught just like Griffin and Jardine..Griffin was obviously the better fighter and just got caught. Liddell/Rampage 3 would be quite different than fight 2....Rampage might still win but Liddell at full potential would have at least lasted for most of the fight.
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