Tired of it

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george112
7/11/07 4:33:51PM
ok this is just my opinion but still

im tired of hearing about how couture and gonzaga are the ones most likely to beat fedor...i mean come on people..lets look at gonzaga...he has beat ONE top notch heavy weight in mirko and it was by a lucky head kick...ANYONE can throw a head kick and have it land and knock somebody out with it, just look at the herring an nog fight..gonzaga i just cant see beatin fedor he doesnt have the gracefulness i should say of fedor..i do think however that gonzaga would be a little bit of a threat on the ground but do remember that fedor is a master of sports in sambo and judo so i really do think fedor could hang with gonzaga on the ground...if big nog couldnt submit fedor then gonzaga wont...as for the elbows on the ground and the cage...i do remember bas rutten saying when fedor came to pride that the key to success for semmy shilt was goin to be the ability to hit fedors head when he was on the ground..well look wat happened..fedor turned into one of if not the best GnP practioners of all time..just think of the damage fedor could do if he unleashed his elbows on somebodies face from the mount or in there guard


ok ok enough about gonzaga lets take a look at couture

couture...i love wat he has done for the sport...hes proven me wrong time and time again but guys he just doesnt have the strength or the sheer power and resourcefulness or fedor...now i kno i kno he beat big tim but i do remember numerous threads on how fedor would absolutely destroy timmy...randy dominated tim for 5 rounds i see a fight between fedor and randy goin maybe to the 2nd round...if randy were to get mounted i dont see him stayin on top for very long the strength of fedor once again would surpass coutures and eventually would end up in a sweep and fedor bein on top...but the thing about fedors GnP is he can inflict damage outside your guard just like when he fought big nog and when he starts landing shots he just doesnt stop take his intensity would be to much for couture i think...but hey you never kno he could pull off a freak high kick like gonzaga and win the fight..but i highly highly highly doubt it




one more thing about gonzagas head kick like i said anyone could land a kick...lets say giant silva or bob sapp somehow got there freakishly large legs high enough to KO couture wat would yall be sayin then?..that there goin to be the next ones to beat fedor?...come on guys
Ydoc
7/11/07 4:45:51PM
A lucky head kick? Now I've heard it all. You are probably right, Gonzaga probably decided to audtion for the Rockettes towards the end of the first round, and boom, the kick that was going to get him in with the biggest precision dance company ever KO'd the best striker in MMA. What a lucky break.
george112
7/11/07 4:52:50PM

Posted by Ydoc

A lucky head kick? Now I've heard it all. You are probably right, Gonzaga probably decided to audtion for the Rockettes towards the end of the first round, and boom, the kick that was going to get him in with the biggest precision dance company ever KO'd the best striker in MMA. What a lucky break.



ok so your telling me that you EXPECTED mirko to get KO'd by gonzaga..becuase by the way your putting it, it sounds like your making gonzaga out to be a well known and good striker
szucconi
7/11/07 4:58:18PM
I am tired of people focusing on the gonzaga high kick. Sure it may have been lucky to KO Mirko with a high kick, but the kick was only the finish. Gonzaga was controlling Crocop the whole round and only the finish was lucky. I don't know if gonzaga would have a chance to beat Fedor, but he did look flawless against a top heavy weight. Mirko went the distance against Fedor so logic would dictate that Fedor and Gonzaga are both better then Crocop and I think Gonzaga was more dominant against Mirko so I would at least think he has a shot. I know that Mirko was looking past Gonzaga and the style match up would give Fedor an advantage, but you still have to give Gonzaga some credit.

I don’t think Couture will beat Fedor. It would have been a better match a few years ago, but Randy has a better chance then most. I think Fedor is over rated, still #1 in the world, but he’s not god like so many people think. He can be beaten.
Ydoc
7/11/07 5:11:00PM

Posted by george112


Posted by Ydoc

A lucky head kick? Now I've heard it all. You are probably right, Gonzaga probably decided to audtion for the Rockettes towards the end of the first round, and boom, the kick that was going to get him in with the biggest precision dance company ever KO'd the best striker in MMA. What a lucky break.



ok so your telling me that you EXPECTED mirko to get KO'd by gonzaga..becuase by the way your putting it, it sounds like your making gonzaga out to be a well known and good striker



It was his gameplan more than his striking that won him that match. What I'm saying is it wasn't lucky. I'm lucky when a tornado avoids my home, I'm lucky when I find 100 dollar bill on the ground. That's luck, doing nothing and and coming out on top. Gonzaga saw that CroCop was dizzy from what he did to him earlier, so while reading CroCop's predictable circling he throws a kick to the head and knocks him out. That's what he wanted to do and he did it.

george112
7/11/07 5:26:18PM

Posted by Ydoc


Posted by george112


Posted by Ydoc

A lucky head kick? Now I've heard it all. You are probably right, Gonzaga probably decided to audtion for the Rockettes towards the end of the first round, and boom, the kick that was going to get him in with the biggest precision dance company ever KO'd the best striker in MMA. What a lucky break.



ok so your telling me that you EXPECTED mirko to get KO'd by gonzaga..becuase by the way your putting it, it sounds like your making gonzaga out to be a well known and good striker



It was his gameplan more than his striking that won him that match. What I'm saying is it wasn't lucky. I'm lucky when a tornado avoids my home, I'm lucky when I find 100 dollar bill on the ground. That's luck, doing nothing and and coming out on top. Gonzaga saw that CroCop was dizzy from what he did to him earlier, so while reading CroCop's predictable circling he throws a kick to the head and knocks him out. That's what he wanted to do and he did it.





thankyou..i do agree with what u said but the fact still remains and the point of this thread remains that gonzaga is not on fedors, his brothers, big nogs, or barnetts level in my opinion...even if he beats couture i still dont consider him in the elite heavyweights..just look at him i think he'll do wat he wants with couture...i would like to see arvlosky fight gonzaga i think that would test gonzaga and with a win over arvlosky and maybe timmy i would consider him a threat to fedor or any other top heavy weight...but not right now...imo he hasnt proven himself yet at all
george112
7/11/07 5:32:01PM

Posted by szucconi

I am tired of people focusing on the gonzaga high kick. Sure it may have been lucky to KO Mirko with a high kick, but the kick was only the finish. Gonzaga was controlling Crocop the whole round and only the finish was lucky. I don't know if gonzaga would have a chance to beat Fedor, but he did look flawless against a top heavy weight. Mirko went the distance against Fedor so logic would dictate that Fedor and Gonzaga are both better then Crocop and I think Gonzaga was more dominant against Mirko so I would at least think he has a shot. I know that Mirko was looking past Gonzaga and the style match up would give Fedor an advantage, but you still have to give Gonzaga some credit.

I don’t think Couture will beat Fedor. It would have been a better match a few years ago, but Randy has a better chance then most. I think Fedor is over rated, still #1 in the world, but he’s not god like so many people think. He can be beaten.




you are right..but the point im trying to make is that the only reason people think gonzaga is so "good" is because he KO'd mirko..im constantly hearing gonzaga is goin to beat fedor...let him prove himself first..when he beats more top heavies with as much ease as he beat mirko then im the one that is probably goin to be sayin hes goin to beat fedor..like i said its to early to judge...randelman knocked out mirko why didnt he beat fedor??mma logic rarely works
Stickan
7/11/07 5:36:31PM

Posted by szucconi

I am tired of people focusing on the gonzaga high kick. Sure it may have been lucky to KO Mirko with a high kick, but the kick was only the finish. Gonzaga was controlling Crocop the whole round and only the finish was lucky. I don't know if gonzaga would have a chance to beat Fedor, but he did look flawless against a top heavy weight. Mirko went the distance against Fedor so logic would dictate that Fedor and Gonzaga are both better then Crocop and I think Gonzaga was more dominant against Mirko so I would at least think he has a shot. I know that Mirko was looking past Gonzaga and the style match up would give Fedor an advantage, but you still have to give Gonzaga some credit.

I don’t think Couture will beat Fedor. It would have been a better match a few years ago, but Randy has a better chance then most. I think Fedor is over rated, still #1 in the world, but he’s not god like so many people think. He can be beaten.


Totally agree. People are focusing on the head kick when without the stand-up from the ref. Gonzaga might as well finished it on the ground with elbows. Mirko was no way near getting up and Gabriel had some nasty GnP.
I think Gonzaga needs to prove himself again for me to think that he has a shot against Fedor but looking at his style, his attributes and his potential I don't see why he can't have a shot against Fedor in the future if he continues winning.
If he beats Couture (which I think he will) and looks impressive doing it, I'd have no problems with a fight between him and Fedor.
His BJJ is awesome, he's shown composure and evolvement on the feet and he's a big strong guy.

I don't like to count out Couture. I've done it way too many times but I don't see him ever beating Fedor.
Who knows though!? That's what's so awesome about this sport.
Rush
7/11/07 5:38:06PM
I don't hink Gonzaga is wonderful because of the Crocop win. I'm not one to jump on a fighter's bandwagon until he shows me two or three solid wins against solid fighters before I am convinced.
george112
7/11/07 5:47:24PM

Posted by Rush

I don't hink Gonzaga is wonderful because of the Crocop win. I'm not one to jump on a fighter's bandwagon until he shows me two or three solid wins against solid fighters before I am convinced.




i guess i think like u...i do give gonzaga credit but its just ONE top heavy...if gonzaga ever into a can im goin to post the biggest I TOLD YOU SO thread ever...lmao
szucconi
7/11/07 5:50:54PM

Posted by george112


you are right..but the point im trying to make is that the only reason people think gonzaga is so "good" is because he KO'd mirko..im constantly hearing gonzaga is goin to beat fedor...let him prove himself first..when he beats more top heavies with as much ease as he beat mirko then im the one that is probably goin to be sayin hes goin to beat fedor..like i said its to early to judge...randelman knocked out mirko why didnt he beat fedor??mma logic rarely works



I totally agree that MMAth is misleading. I just don't think the high kick, no matter how fluky, is any reason to discount Gonzaga as a contender. He put away a top ten guy in convincing fashion even without the high kick and is about to do it again (in my opinion). He doesn’t match up well with Fedor so I don’t know if he can take him. I can tell you that I would pay to see it.
pv3Hpv3p
7/11/07 5:52:45PM
Question for the TS...

If Gonzaga beats Randy, he would be the UFC's HW champ... I don't think you have to prove yourself anymore than that... he can't just keep lighting Nog up, there is no more competition left for him in Pride besides Barney and they don't look like they're going to fight... Should he really sit idle untill a "worthy" competitor comes around?

Who then would you say is at the caliber to fight Fedor? Gonzaga seems like a guy that can rise to the occasion when his competiton gets tougher, we'll see after he fights Randy, but why not give him a shot... He's got the same body type as Fedor with more mass, the man's no pushover

And if you remember, Lindland almost took Fedor down... Randy is a much bigger stronger guy, and argueabley better at grecco (at least in the higher weightclasses)... Who's to say what would have happened in that fight if Matt could have gotten top position... Maybe (probably) Fedor would have bucked or swept... But Lindland is no chump especially when it comes to dominating position and squeeking out a dec...

And that leads to another major point, if Fedor comes to the UFC he will have to fight with the 10 point must system... While I don't see anyone KO or subbing him, I could see a guy like Randy or Gonzaga out pointing him in a S/Udecision

Sorry about the long post
george112
7/11/07 5:58:16PM

Posted by szucconi


Posted by george112


you are right..but the point im trying to make is that the only reason people think gonzaga is so "good" is because he KO'd mirko..im constantly hearing gonzaga is goin to beat fedor...let him prove himself first..when he beats more top heavies with as much ease as he beat mirko then im the one that is probably goin to be sayin hes goin to beat fedor..like i said its to early to judge...randelman knocked out mirko why didnt he beat fedor??mma logic rarely works



I totally agree that MMAth is misleading. I just don't think the high kick, no matter how fluky, is any reason to discount Gonzaga as a contender. He put away a top ten guy in convincing fashion even without the high kick and is about to do it again (in my opinion). He doesn’t match up well with Fedor so I don’t know if he can take him. I can tell you that I would pay to see it.




I dont discount gonzaga i mean look at him he has massive potential.....but beating couture im my eyes doesnt do anything for him IMO...lets see..if he beats couture people are gonna say couture is old and that it wasnt really a fight that couture could win..but if he loses people are gonna say that gonzaga just wasnt as good as couture and never would have stood a chance against fedor
george112
7/11/07 6:05:13PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

Question for the TS...

If Gonzaga beats Randy, he would be the UFC's HW champ... I don't think you have to prove yourself anymore than that... he can't just keep lighting Nog up, there is no more competition left for him in Pride besides Barney and they don't look like they're going to fight... Should he really sit idle untill a "worthy" competitor comes around?

Who then would you say is at the caliber to fight Fedor? Gonzaga seems like a guy that can rise to the occasion when his competiton gets tougher, we'll see after he fights Randy, but why not give him a shot... He's got the same body type as Fedor with more mass, the man's no pushover

And if you remember, Lindland almost took Fedor down... Randy is a much bigger stronger guy, and argueabley better at grecco (at least in the higher weightclasses)... Who's to say what would have happened in that fight if Matt could have gotten top position... Maybe (probably) Fedor would have bucked or swept... But Lindland is no chump especially when it comes to dominating position and squeeking out a dec...

And that leads to another major point, if Fedor comes to the UFC he will have to fight with the 10 point must system... While I don't see anyone KO or subbing him, I could see a guy like Randy or Gonzaga out pointing him in a S/Udecision

Sorry about the long post




i do remember the lindland fight an to be honest lindland didnt stand a chance even if he would have gotten that take down...also fedor is no chump either even if randy were to get top position i can see fedor overpowering randy and getting to his feet or submitting him with an armbar like against coleman..fedor really is slick in his submissions...now is fedor over rated?? probably but fedor has no losses to discount him of anything he has accomplished...i say feed gonzaga to arvlosky and see wat happens...getting back to randys grecco abilities...i think fedors judo and sambo background cancel out randys grecco
EddieBowers
7/11/07 6:08:12PM
Personally I think that Gonzaga shoudl have to fight one or two more people before a title shoot. I see some guys coming in and getting title shoots fast, or getting one right after loosing it and fighting once... i.e. Matt Hughs (I like him but I think he shoudl ahve to fight a few more to go after the title again.) Make them work for the title. I am not meaning to sound like I am sayiong Gonzaga sucks, because I do not think that, I am just thinking form and more entertaining standpoint... More fights, then title shoot, make these guys climb the chain.
szucconi
7/11/07 6:11:01PM

Posted by george112

I dont discount gonzaga i mean look at him he has massive potential.....but beating couture im my eyes doesnt do anything for him IMO...lets see..if he beats couture people are gonna say couture is old and that it wasnt really a fight that couture could win..but if he loses people are gonna say that gonzaga just wasnt as good as couture and never would have stood a chance against fedor



Beating Couture doesn't do anything for him? Last time I checked, Couture was the UFC champ and he was running one of the most successful up and coming MMA gyms in the world. Sure, I think Couture is old, but he is still the champ.
Aether
7/11/07 6:12:22PM
if you listen to the wording of the statement this entire argument would be irrelevant. I don't think I've seen a single person say "Gonzaga is better than Fedor" or "Gonzaga will probably beat fedor" if the statement is "Gonzaga has the best chance to beat Fedor" I don't see what there is for you to be upset about. Fedor has already beaten virtually everyone else who poses a threat, and people see a new face with a strong ground game and a large frame as the kind of fighter who *might* be able to open up a cut with an elbow or something to end the fight. No one is saying Gonzaga is a better fighter.
george112
7/11/07 6:14:33PM

Posted by szucconi


Posted by george112

I dont discount gonzaga i mean look at him he has massive potential.....but beating couture im my eyes doesnt do anything for him IMO...lets see..if he beats couture people are gonna say couture is old and that it wasnt really a fight that couture could win..but if he loses people are gonna say that gonzaga just wasnt as good as couture and never would have stood a chance against fedor



Beating Couture doesn't do anything for him? Last time I checked, Couture was the UFC champ and he was running one of the most successful up and coming MMA gyms in the world. Sure, I think Couture is old, but he is still the champ.



ok but mostly everybody is expecting couture to lose this fight...and running a successful gym doesnt give gonzaga any more credibility if he beats couture
szucconi
7/11/07 6:18:12PM

Posted by EddieBowers

Personally I think that Gonzaga shoudl have to fight one or two more people before a title shoot. I see some guys coming in and getting title shoots fast, or getting one right after loosing it and fighting once... i.e. Matt Hughs (I like him but I think he shoudl ahve to fight a few more to go after the title again.) Make them work for the title. I am not meaning to sound like I am sayiong Gonzaga sucks, because I do not think that, I am just thinking form and more entertaining standpoint... More fights, then title shoot, make these guys climb the chain.



I think it is a quick title shot of Gonzaga, but its only because they wanted to give Mirko a quick title shot. They kept saying "the winner of this match gets a title shot" assuming it would be Crocop. Much like the Rampage Jackson title shot. Mirko is a vary proven guy and it makes sense to give him a title shot. When Gonzaga won, it threw a wrench in there plans. I thing Randy would have beaten Crocop, but thats just me.
george112
7/11/07 6:22:19PM

Posted by Aether

if you listen to the wording of the statement this entire argument would be irrelevant. I don't think I've seen a single person say "Gonzaga is better than Fedor" or "Gonzaga will probably beat fedor" if the statement is "Gonzaga has the best chance to beat Fedor" I don't see what there is for you to be upset about. Fedor has already beaten virtually everyone else who poses a threat, and people see a new face with a strong ground game and a large frame as the kind of fighter who *might* be able to open up a cut with an elbow or something to end the fight. No one is saying Gonzaga is a better fighter.




i am a frequent thread reader over on sherdog....and ive seen numerouse threads on how gonzaga is going to beat fedor and what not....becuase i dont have an account there i decided to post here...also im not antagonizing anybody im just stating that im tired of hearin that
szucconi
7/11/07 6:24:44PM

Posted by george112

ok but mostly everybody is expecting couture to lose this fight...and running a successful gym doesnt give gonzaga any more credibility if he beats couture



Point taken about running a gym being virtually irrelevant, but even though Gonzaga is the slight favorite it is still vary close. Our own event pick on this site favor Randy. It should be a good main event.
george112
7/11/07 6:27:24PM

Posted by szucconi


Posted by george112

ok but mostly everybody is expecting couture to lose this fight...and running a successful gym doesnt give gonzaga any more credibility if he beats couture



Point taken about running a gym being virtually irrelevant, but even though Gonzaga is the slight favorite it is still vary close. Our own event pick on this site favor Randy. It should be a good main event.





your right and i look forward to watching it
CwB
7/11/07 7:35:12PM
So it seems like everyone agrees

it is too soon to make a decision on whether gonzaga can hang with fedor. TRUE

randy is not strong enough to withstand the smooth relentless skill of fedor's standup and ground game. TRUE

and fedor is invincible. FALSE

Is fedor the number one heavy weight in the world? Yes without a doubt, but he can and will be beaten eventually and not just by a lucky head kick.

Randy VS. Fedor
Randy is one of the smartest fighters out there as far as game plans, so maybe he could find a way to beat fedor. POSSIBLE

Gonzaga VS. Fedor
Gonzaga looked nearly perfect in his fight with Mirko so if he can keep performing at that level he definately has a chance to beat "THE GOD" Fedor. POSSIBLE

And the great news for all of us is
according to the rumors fedor will be fighting in the UFC, probably in early 2008.

Aether
7/11/07 9:34:09PM
oh yeah well... most of the people on sherdog are idiots, so I wouldn't take anything said over there too seriously. I thought you meant you were hearing it on these forums.
rcg916
7/11/07 9:38:21PM

Posted by Ydoc

A lucky head kick? Now I've heard it all. You are probably right, Gonzaga probably decided to audtion for the Rockettes towards the end of the first round, and boom, the kick that was going to get him in with the biggest precision dance company ever KO'd the best striker in MMA. What a lucky break.



Holy crap.

Tried to give props for that zinger, but gotta spread it around...
cmill21
7/11/07 9:44:59PM
I do agree it was a lucky head kick, gonzaga himself said he expected it to hit his arm. The fact remains he had Mirko on the ground and hit him with elbows, which lead to the delayed reaction, blurred vision, and heasitation on Mirko's part. Now does anyone think that if Mirko had a decent ground game, or even trained to buck/defend elbows/fight in a cage, that gonzaga would have won? I really don't. To me it seemed like Mirko was content to take the elbows as long as he didn't give up and arm to be submitted. I guess I just figure if Mirko trained like he is now it would have been a totally different fight. Now the whole thing is, fedor is a tad better then Mirko on the ground...and he woulden't have thrown that lazy kick to get taken down. So no I don't think the man to beat Fedor is gonzaga, I think it's a re-vamped Mirko with a ground game...or Big Barnett.
KillaMed87
7/11/07 10:34:56PM
I think that some of you think Fedor is some kind of GOD...hes good, really good, but eveyone has a flaw in their game. Hes human after all
cmill21
7/11/07 11:25:58PM
Just curious, what is his flaw?
Piccosaur
7/11/07 11:46:20PM
I'm tired of people overating Fedor, that is all.
george112
7/12/07 12:03:39AM
im not saying that fedor is a god in any way..all im sayin is that gonzaga and couture IMO cannot hang with fedor
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