One of the only times Ive heard Joe Rogan not know what he was talking about

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bt155lbs
6/25/07 7:00:25AM
I like Joe Rogan and I think he is an excellent announcer with a lot of knowledge of the sport of jiu-jitsu and MMA. At UFC 70 Nations Collide 4x Oklahoma high school state wrestling champion Matt Grice was fighting, during the fight the fact that Grice was a 4x state champ was brought up and Rogan made a statement something along the lines of being a 4x state champ in Ok. is like being an 8x state champ in California. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about on this matter. There has only been 1 4x California state champion in wrestling and Im willing to bet that theres been something along the lines 15-30 4x Oklahoma state champs through history. Its harder to win a California title for the simple fact that California only has 1 true state champion per weight division as were other states have up to 4 or 5. I believe Oklahoma has 5 state wrestling champions per weight class per year ex:
160lbs1a state champion - Joey Battafuco
160lbs 2a state champion - Reginald Denny
160lbs 3a state champion- Art Jimmerson
160lbs4a state champion- Buff kid with flat top
160lbs5a state champion- Matt Grice

So if this was 2008 all of these guys would 2008 Oklahoma high school state champions at 160lbs


As in California there is only 1 160lbs state champion per weight.

Not to mention theres something like 850 high schools in Cali that have wrestling teams were Im guessing theres only 250 in the whole state of Oklahome so that makes what 50-75 schgools per deivision?

Oklahoma is a great wrestling state with tradition but it is tougher to win a California state title in wrestling.

College wrestling is a different story though
grappler0000
6/25/07 7:22:36AM
OK is in the region of the country that has a huge interest in wrestling...some call it the wrestling belt. He just used a simple analogy to stress how fierce the competition is there as opposed to most other states...and that being a 4x champ there meant more than it would mean in most other places. This was something he said on the fly...not something he sat down and analyzed. I don't see what point you are trying to make.

Also, many states have different divisions of schools, so it is not uncommon. He just through California out there...I don't think he spent time researching which states have divisioned schools. You try to prove your point by saying "I'm willing to bet...". When trying to debunk another person's statement, it's useful to at least get your facts straight first. You have fuzzy logic...the number of schools doesn't necessarily dictate the level of competition a state has. If numbers were the key, then China would win every medal at each Olympics.

I'm not sure why you took this statement so personal, but your argument is not very convincing. I am willing to bet that you are a California wrestler...am I correct?

bt155lbs
6/25/07 7:32:02AM
It was just one of the rare times I heard Rogan way off,, Im sure it stuck in my mind for the simple fact that I wrestled in California in high school and Im sure anyone who wrestled in California that heard him say that yelled bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! out loud, or he doesnt know what the **** hes talking about out loud! I dont think he sat down anaylyzed it or anything like that. Maybe I got carried way with explaining how its tougher in winning in Cali but its just the truth. I dont think he was referring to the firceness in the midwest he was referring to it being tougher to win 4 state titles. Its just a bullshit locker room subject that pops in my head all the time so I wrote it down
bt155lbs
6/25/07 7:36:03AM

Posted by grappler0000

OK is in the region of the country that has a huge interest in wrestling...some call it the wrestling belt. He just used a simple analogy to stress how fierce the competition is there as opposed to most other states...and that being a 4x champ there meant more than it would mean in most other places. This was something he said on the fly...not something he sat down and analyzed. I don't see what point you are trying to make.

Also, many states have different divisions of schools, so it is not uncommon. He just through California out there...I don't think he spent time researching which states have divisioned schools. You try to prove your point by saying "I'm willing to bet...". When trying to debunk another person's statement, it's useful to at least get your facts straight first. You have fuzzy logic...the number of schools doesn't necessarily dictate the level of competition a state has. If numbers were the key, then China would win every medal at each Olympics.

I'm not sure why you took this statement so personal, but your argument is not very convincing. I am willing to bet that you are a California wrestler...am I correct?





Dude get your facts staright, California wins or is in the top three every year at Fargo in the Freestyle and Greco nations aswell as at the high school nationals were Oklahoma is not. Get your facts staright pal. California Ohio, Pennsylvania, these are some of the toughest high school wrestling states in the country period. Yes the level of a state champion in Ok is comparible to that of one in Cali but California is much deeper. Every year a guy who places 8th in the Cali state tournament beats a 3x state champion from another school at high school nationsal. Is that fuzzy or what?
MisFiT
6/25/07 12:35:59PM
I agree, he was way off at the TUF Finale. I thought Goldberg was doing a better job haha, it was crazy.
rcg916
6/25/07 12:46:33PM

Posted by bt155lbs

I like Joe Rogan and I think he is an excellent announcer with a lot of knowledge of the sport of jiu-jitsu and MMA. At UFC 70 Nations Collide 4x Oklahoma high school state wrestling champion Matt Grice was fighting, during the fight the fact that Grice was a 4x state champ was brought up and Rogan made a statement something along the lines of being a 4x state champ in Ok. is like being an 8x state champ in California. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about on this matter. There has only been 1 4x California state champion in wrestling and Im willing to bet that theres been something along the lines 15-30 4x Oklahoma state champs through history. Its harder to win a California title for the simple fact that California only has 1 true state champion per weight division as were other states have up to 4 or 5. I believe Oklahoma has 5 state wrestling champions per weight class per year ex:
160lbs1a state champion - Joey Battafuco
160lbs 2a state champion - Reginald Denny
160lbs 3a state champion- Art Jimmerson
160lbs4a state champion- Buff kid with flat top
160lbs5a state champion- Matt Grice

So if this was 2008 all of these guys would 2008 Oklahoma high school state champions at 160lbs


As in California there is only 1 160lbs state champion per weight.

Not to mention theres something like 850 high schools in Cali that have wrestling teams were Im guessing theres only 250 in the whole state of Oklahome so that makes what 50-75 schgools per deivision?

Oklahoma is a great wrestling state with tradition but it is tougher to win a California state title in wrestling.

College wrestling is a different story though



one million percent wrong. California may have some of the most schools, but the midwest is the breeding ground for HS wrestling... Plus, theres 5 champions because of the sheer amount od Division one wrestling programs in OK, and similar wrestling states.

Heres a good example... I was a 3 time state qualifier, top 10 my last two years... In the summer before my senior year, I went to a summer camp in Iowa. There were freshmen there crushing me, and making me look like a JV competitor.

California is a strong wrestling state, but an Oklahoma state title is worth 2 or 3 here in Cali.
bt155lbs
6/25/07 2:05:04PM

Posted by rcg916


Posted by bt155lbs

I like Joe Rogan and I think he is an excellent announcer with a lot of knowledge of the sport of jiu-jitsu and MMA. At UFC 70 Nations Collide 4x Oklahoma high school state wrestling champion Matt Grice was fighting, during the fight the fact that Grice was a 4x state champ was brought up and Rogan made a statement something along the lines of being a 4x state champ in Ok. is like being an 8x state champ in California. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about on this matter. There has only been 1 4x California state champion in wrestling and Im willing to bet that theres been something along the lines 15-30 4x Oklahoma state champs through history. Its harder to win a California title for the simple fact that California only has 1 true state champion per weight division as were other states have up to 4 or 5. I believe Oklahoma has 5 state wrestling champions per weight class per year ex:
160lbs1a state champion - Joey Battafuco
160lbs 2a state champion - Reginald Denny
160lbs 3a state champion- Art Jimmerson
160lbs4a state champion- Buff kid with flat top
160lbs5a state champion- Matt Grice

So if this was 2008 all of these guys would 2008 Oklahoma high school state champions at 160lbs


As in California there is only 1 160lbs state champion per weight.

Not to mention theres something like 850 high schools in Cali that have wrestling teams were Im guessing theres only 250 in the whole state of Oklahome so that makes what 50-75 schgools per deivision?

Oklahoma is a great wrestling state with tradition but it is tougher to win a California state title in wrestling.

College wrestling is a different story though



one million percent wrong. California may have some of the most schools, but the midwest is the breeding ground for HS wrestling... Plus, theres 5 champions because of the sheer amount od Division one wrestling programs in OK, and similar wrestling states.

Heres a good example... I was a 3 time state qualifier, top 10 my last two years... In the summer before my senior year, I went to a summer camp in Iowa. There were freshmen there crushing me, and making me look like a JV competitor.

California is a strong wrestling state, but an Oklahoma state title is worth 2 or 3 here in Cali.




wear were you a state qualifier at? Im sorry but you are wrong, winning one title in Oklahoma is nothing like witnning 2 or three here. I dont know what would give you that impression, were did you wrestle?
rcg916
6/25/07 2:53:36PM

Posted by bt155lbs


Posted by rcg916


Posted by bt155lbs

I like Joe Rogan and I think he is an excellent announcer with a lot of knowledge of the sport of jiu-jitsu and MMA. At UFC 70 Nations Collide 4x Oklahoma high school state wrestling champion Matt Grice was fighting, during the fight the fact that Grice was a 4x state champ was brought up and Rogan made a statement something along the lines of being a 4x state champ in Ok. is like being an 8x state champ in California. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about on this matter. There has only been 1 4x California state champion in wrestling and Im willing to bet that theres been something along the lines 15-30 4x Oklahoma state champs through history. Its harder to win a California title for the simple fact that California only has 1 true state champion per weight division as were other states have up to 4 or 5. I believe Oklahoma has 5 state wrestling champions per weight class per year ex:
160lbs1a state champion - Joey Battafuco
160lbs 2a state champion - Reginald Denny
160lbs 3a state champion- Art Jimmerson
160lbs4a state champion- Buff kid with flat top
160lbs5a state champion- Matt Grice

So if this was 2008 all of these guys would 2008 Oklahoma high school state champions at 160lbs


As in California there is only 1 160lbs state champion per weight.

Not to mention theres something like 850 high schools in Cali that have wrestling teams were Im guessing theres only 250 in the whole state of Oklahome so that makes what 50-75 schgools per deivision?

Oklahoma is a great wrestling state with tradition but it is tougher to win a California state title in wrestling.

College wrestling is a different story though



one million percent wrong. California may have some of the most schools, but the midwest is the breeding ground for HS wrestling... Plus, theres 5 champions because of the sheer amount od Division one wrestling programs in OK, and similar wrestling states.

Heres a good example... I was a 3 time state qualifier, top 10 my last two years... In the summer before my senior year, I went to a summer camp in Iowa. There were freshmen there crushing me, and making me look like a JV competitor.

California is a strong wrestling state, but an Oklahoma state title is worth 2 or 3 here in Cali.




wear were you a state qualifier at? Im sorry but you are wrong, winning one title in Oklahoma is nothing like witnning 2 or three here. I dont know what would give you that impression, were did you wrestle?



Out of Sac Joaquin section... I guess Im wrong then... lol

But I know one thing... You must be a current high school wrestler in CA. And you must be a bit young, because anyone with a history in following collegiate style wrestling knows this stuff... But, remember, its all opinion. Unless youve wrestled in a different region, (I have, but my opinion obviously doesnt count! lol) you honestly wouldnt know the difference in competition.
bt155lbs
6/25/07 6:40:09PM

Posted by rcg916


Posted by bt155lbs


Posted by rcg916


Posted by bt155lbs

I like Joe Rogan and I think he is an excellent announcer with a lot of knowledge of the sport of jiu-jitsu and MMA. At UFC 70 Nations Collide 4x Oklahoma high school state wrestling champion Matt Grice was fighting, during the fight the fact that Grice was a 4x state champ was brought up and Rogan made a statement something along the lines of being a 4x state champ in Ok. is like being an 8x state champ in California. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about on this matter. There has only been 1 4x California state champion in wrestling and Im willing to bet that theres been something along the lines 15-30 4x Oklahoma state champs through history. Its harder to win a California title for the simple fact that California only has 1 true state champion per weight division as were other states have up to 4 or 5. I believe Oklahoma has 5 state wrestling champions per weight class per year ex:
160lbs1a state champion - Joey Battafuco
160lbs 2a state champion - Reginald Denny
160lbs 3a state champion- Art Jimmerson
160lbs4a state champion- Buff kid with flat top
160lbs5a state champion- Matt Grice

So if this was 2008 all of these guys would 2008 Oklahoma high school state champions at 160lbs


As in California there is only 1 160lbs state champion per weight.

Not to mention theres something like 850 high schools in Cali that have wrestling teams were Im guessing theres only 250 in the whole state of Oklahome so that makes what 50-75 schgools per deivision?

Oklahoma is a great wrestling state with tradition but it is tougher to win a California state title in wrestling.

College wrestling is a different story though



one million percent wrong. California may have some of the most schools, but the midwest is the breeding ground for HS wrestling... Plus, theres 5 champions because of the sheer amount od Division one wrestling programs in OK, and similar wrestling states.

Heres a good example... I was a 3 time state qualifier, top 10 my last two years... In the summer before my senior year, I went to a summer camp in Iowa. There were freshmen there crushing me, and making me look like a JV competitor.

California is a strong wrestling state, but an Oklahoma state title is worth 2 or 3 here in Cali.




wear were you a state qualifier at? Im sorry but you are wrong, winning one title in Oklahoma is nothing like witnning 2 or three here. I dont know what would give you that impression, were did you wrestle?



Out of Sac Joaquin section... I guess Im wrong then... lol

But I know one thing... You must be a current high school wrestler in CA. And you must be a bit young, because anyone with a history in following collegiate style wrestling knows this stuff... But, remember, its all opinion. Unless youve wrestled in a different region, (I have, but my opinion obviously doesnt count! lol) you honestly wouldnt know the difference in competition.



Well I placed 6th in Fargo at Junior at Junior Nationals , I was a Fila Junior state finalist in 2005 at 163lbs losing Danny Cadwallader in the Greco finals and Dev Solis both from Fresno state in the freestyle state finals. Ive wrestled at the nationals duals against team Oklahoma, which California won. You must not have wrestled freestyle or greco or competed at high school nationals in the late 1990's or early 2000's. I graduated in 2002. I think California took third at high school nationals that year behind Ohio and Pennsylvania. San Joaquin is a good section devision I wrestled in southern section.

Like I said College wrestling is a different story. Oklahoma State and Oklahoma have great wrestling tradition coaches and staff. There OK state is top 5 every year at the NCAA'S and Oklahoima's tough every year aswell, were Cali dopesnt have a consistent top 20 div. 1 team. But in college look were the wrestlers are from, California had more Olympians on the 2004 team than any other state. Dude being in the Sac Joauquin section you should know this. California has more wrestlers, therefore more athletes. Im not saying there top wrestlers are comparible to our top wrestlers, and its just depends on the athlete whos on the mat, but year in year out Cali produces in the national level more consistent than Oklahoma in Fargo and at high school nationals. College is different and the schools with the tradition and the great coaching staffs get the top recruits. Oklahoma has far btter college wrestling but were talking high school here.

1 4x California state champ in the history of California wrestling and Oklahoma has had numerous 4x's.

Ill be back, Im going to the mat.com to get some stats!
bt155lbs
6/25/07 9:14:52PM

Posted by rcg916


Posted by bt155lbs

I like Joe Rogan and I think he is an excellent announcer with a lot of knowledge of the sport of jiu-jitsu and MMA. At UFC 70 Nations Collide 4x Oklahoma high school state wrestling champion Matt Grice was fighting, during the fight the fact that Grice was a 4x state champ was brought up and Rogan made a statement something along the lines of being a 4x state champ in Ok. is like being an 8x state champ in California. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about on this matter. There has only been 1 4x California state champion in wrestling and Im willing to bet that theres been something along the lines 15-30 4x Oklahoma state champs through history. Its harder to win a California title for the simple fact that California only has 1 true state champion per weight division as were other states have up to 4 or 5. I believe Oklahoma has 5 state wrestling champions per weight class per year ex:
160lbs1a state champion - Joey Battafuco
160lbs 2a state champion - Reginald Denny
160lbs 3a state champion- Art Jimmerson
160lbs4a state champion- Buff kid with flat top
160lbs5a state champion- Matt Grice

So if this was 2008 all of these guys would 2008 Oklahoma high school state champions at 160lbs


As in California there is only 1 160lbs state champion per weight.

Not to mention theres something like 850 high schools in Cali that have wrestling teams were Im guessing theres only 250 in the whole state of Oklahome so that makes what 50-75 schgools per deivision?

Oklahoma is a great wrestling state with tradition but it is tougher to win a California state title in wrestling.

College wrestling is a different story though



one million percent wrong. California may have some of the most schools, but the midwest is the breeding ground for HS wrestling... Plus, theres 5 champions because of the sheer amount od Division one wrestling programs in OK, and similar wrestling states.

Heres a good example... I was a 3 time state qualifier, top 10 my last two years... In the summer before my senior year, I went to a summer camp in Iowa. There were freshmen there crushing me, and making me look like a JV competitor.

California is a strong wrestling state, but an Oklahoma state title is worth 2 or 3 here in Cali.




http://www.nhsca.com/documents/allamerican.pdf />

Why dont all of you take a look at the list of high school wrestling all americans from 1990-2005. I think stats speak for themselves, remember thew whoe argue ment has been over high school wrestling not college.

You guys arguing about the hot bed of wrestling being the midwest and all this and that. Cali is as good as any state at producing wrestlers. Its a fact deal with it. Arguimng Oklahoma over Cali is like the arguements I had with the Royce supporters beforemhe fought Hughes. Stop living in the past
grappler0000
6/26/07 7:25:36AM
First of all, the Royce/Hughes match was a no brainer. Second of all, you completely missed the point of my statement all together. I never claimed one state is better than the other. I merely tried to explain Rogan's thought process. The midwest is the hotbed for wrestling. Does that mean that there is no talent elsewhere? Of coarse not. In fact, I don't really care what state is the best. The point I was trying to make was that I completely understand what Rogan was trying to say...if you hadn't taken the statement to heart, you'd probably understand it as well. He was just trying to stress to the listeners how much competition there is in wrestling in that part of the country...which in turn translates to only really good wrestlers have success there. In the process, he pulled a random state out his ass as the example to compare it to....and California happened to be that State. On a different day, it would of maybe been Vermont. His intentions were not to slight California. I'm sorry that you took it personally.

I stressed no facts in my statement, so I'm not sure which ones I should be getting straight...in fact, you made a Rogan statement yourself. You said "Every year a guy who places 8th in the Cali state tournament beats a 3x state champion from another school at high school nationsal." I'm pretty sure that statement could be contested, but I know what you were trying to say

When I referred to your fuzzy logic, it wasn't trying to say that your conclusions were false by any means, but rather your conclusions didn't follow your arguments. California has more residents than Oklahoma...it doesn't necessarily follow that they have better or more decorated wrestlers as a result. Whether it's true or not is a moot point.

If you start a thread like this...you should expect feedback.
I feel that:

1. The statement is one that cannot be proven one way or another
2. The statement wasn't intended to be an analytical statement...or to slight Cali
3. California was merely a state used at random to get his point across
4. You took the statement too personally
Violentcuv
6/26/07 12:41:27PM



<a href="http://www.nhsca.com/documents/allamerican.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nhsca.com/documents/allamerican.pdf</a></a> />

Why dont all of you take a look at the list of high school wrestling all americans from 1990-2005. I think stats speak for themselves, remember thew whoe argue ment has been over high school wrestling not college.

You guys arguing about the hot bed of wrestling being the midwest and all this and that. Cali is as good as any state at producing wrestlers. Its a fact deal with it. Arguimng Oklahoma over Cali is like the arguements I had with the Royce supporters beforemhe fought Hughes. Stop living in the past





Thanks for the link. it kept me busy for the last 20 minutes.
Wonder how many professional MMA fighters are on that list. I mostly looked thru the OHIO wrestlers since the list was sooo long.


I found...

Gray Maynard - (145 lbs) 1998 Ohio

Matt Hughes - (152lbs) 1992 Illinois

Sonny Marchette (135lbs) 1997 Ohio (New local fighter, im sure nobody here has heard of him, but I recognized the name from Ohio Fight Fest)

Chris Cooley TE - Wash Redskins (215lbs) 2000 Utah



Anybody else find anymore on this list??????
rcg916
6/26/07 12:44:26PM
regardless if we agree,

THAT LIST IS WORTH IT. Thanks man, good info.
rcg916
6/26/07 12:50:49PM

You must not have wrestled freestyle or greco or competed at high school nationals in the late 1990's or early 2000's.


Yeah, I only wrestled both freestyle and greco, year around, since I was 9.

But, nobody is saying that we were as good as you. (My double legs suck now, just ask my submission wrestling class). I know you are the second coming of Cael Sanderson.

But this argument has no winner, since its based fully on opinion. I was right in assuming that you were young, and its apparent by your clinging to the last few years' team stats. Just know that wrestling has been around a lot longer than you know of, and this argument is legendary in the wrestling world. Surprised you didnt know that, Dan Gable!
bt155lbs
6/26/07 1:25:55PM

Posted by rcg916


You must not have wrestled freestyle or greco or competed at high school nationals in the late 1990's or early 2000's.


Yeah, I only wrestled both freestyle and greco, year around, since I was 9.

But, nobody is saying that we were as good as you. (My double legs suck now, just ask my submission wrestling class). I know you are the second coming of Cael Sanderson.

But this argument has no winner, since its based fully on opinion. I was right in assuming that you were young, and its apparent by your clinging to the last few years' team stats. Just know that wrestling has been around a lot longer than you know of, and this argument is legendary in the wrestling world. Surprised you didnt know that, Dan Gable!




Bro I dont think Im anything like Cael Sanderson or anthing like that at all, and didnt mean to come off like I thought I was some bad ass wrestler. All I was trying to get across after you said something like I must be a current California wrestler and something liek ot ever possibly competetin against midwest wrestlers. All I was trying to show was that I have seen them and wrestled against them over the years and have seen California place much higher year after year in Fargo.



Damn people this is the locker room right, a place were you can post off the wall shit that bugged you or whatever else you feel like saying. My whole point was Joe made a statement referring to how its tougher to be a state champion in Oklahoma, and that I think Rogan does a good job and has a lot of knowledge of combat sports but on this rare occasion he was wrong.

You got me 0000000000000grappler, I took it to heart probably because I was a California wrestler, so what. I posted the topic because Im proud to have grown up wrestling in California and know first hand that its tougher to win 4 state titles here than in any other state. I dont know how the stats and facts could be anymore clear, infact heres a list of all of Oklahomas 4x high school state champs over the years.

Mike Bizzle (130) Cascia Hall 2002-2005
Ryan Henning (135) Tuttle 2001-2004
Brandon Tucker (112) Broken Arrow 2000-2003
Derrick Fleenor (119) El Reno 1999-2002
Teyon Ware (135) Edmond North 1999-2002
Clark Shouse (140) Morrison 1997-2000
Matt Grice (152) Harrah 1997-2000
Matt Bean (145) Mustang 1996-1999
Shane Roller (160) Bixby 1995-1998
Jeff Henning (171) Tuttle 1995-1998
Michael Lightner (130) Marlow 1993-1996
Steve Elkins (142) Madill 1992-1995
Jerry Best (136) Chandler 1988-1991
T. J. Jaworsky (123) Edmond 1987-1990
Kyle Rosebure (136) McAlester 1984-1987
Todd Chesbro (157) Stillwater 1984-1987
Kenny Monday (141) Tulsa Washington 1977-1980
Cecil Beisel (HWT) Perry 1975-1978
Leonard Shelton (HWT) Ponca City 1937-1940


Oh yeah did I mention theres only been 1 4x champ in California.

Hmm I wonder were its harder to be a 4x champ?

000000grappler I kknow your gonna say Im missing the point, I think you missed my point I mean it was my Topic post, and Rogan wasnt referring to the tradition or intensity he was stating that its more prestigious and more difficult to be a 4x Oklahoma champ, being a 4x champ in Oklahoma is like being an 8x champ in California is exactly what he said. I dont think that he was referring to anything else other than its tougher to win state in Oklahoma. It doesnt matter if he pulled California out of his ass just to make a point. On this rare occasion Rogan didnt know what he was talking about. I agree with you that wrestling in the midwest and might carrie more tradition and might get in the paper and all that shit more than here in California, and thats cool and all but so what.
bt155lbs
6/26/07 1:27:06PM
Darryl Vasquez of Bakersfield high, California's only 4x state champion, give it up give it up!!!!!!!!
grappler0000
6/26/07 1:40:45PM
Did you even bother to read what I said? Read it again.
bt155lbs
6/26/07 1:46:30PM

Posted by grappler0000

Did you even bother to read what I said? Read it again.



yeah I read over it again and I went and edited my post, why dont you read it again aswell. Its two post back , the last one posted on page 1
mmadb
6/26/07 2:23:20PM
I don't know if I read this wrong but answer me this. We are talking about state high school champions and Rogan said 8 time? Does this not imply that you would have to be in high school for 8 years? Also, if that is the case, being that Joe Rogan is a comedian maybe it was a joke?

Anyways, this thread is way over my head otherwise...
rcg916
6/26/07 2:39:50PM

Posted by bt155lbs

Bro I dont think Im anything like Cael Sanderson or anthing like that at all, and didnt mean to come off like I thought I was some bad ass wrestler. All I was trying to get across after you said something like I must be a current California wrestler and something liek ot ever possibly competetin against midwest wrestlers. All I was trying to show was that I have seen them and wrestled against them over the years and have seen California place much higher year after year in Fargo.



Damn people this is the locker room right, a place were you can post off the wall shit that bugged you or whatever else you feel like saying. My whole point was Joe made a statement referring to how its tougher to be a state champion in Oklahoma, and that I think Rogan does a good job and has a lot of knowledge of combat sports but on this rare occasion he was wrong.

You got me 0000000000000grappler, I took it to heart probably because I was a California wrestler, so what. I posted the topic because Im proud to have grown up wrestling in California and know first hand that its tougher to win 4 state titles here than in any other state. I dont know how the stats and facts could be anymore clear, infact heres a list of all of Oklahomas 4x high school state champs over the years.

Mike Bizzle (130) Cascia Hall 2002-2005
Ryan Henning (135) Tuttle 2001-2004
Brandon Tucker (112) Broken Arrow 2000-2003
Derrick Fleenor (119) El Reno 1999-2002
Teyon Ware (135) Edmond North 1999-2002
Clark Shouse (140) Morrison 1997-2000
Matt Grice (152) Harrah 1997-2000
Matt Bean (145) Mustang 1996-1999
Shane Roller (160) Bixby 1995-1998
Jeff Henning (171) Tuttle 1995-1998
Michael Lightner (130) Marlow 1993-1996
Steve Elkins (142) Madill 1992-1995
Jerry Best (136) Chandler 1988-1991
T. J. Jaworsky (123) Edmond 1987-1990
Kyle Rosebure (136) McAlester 1984-1987
Todd Chesbro (157) Stillwater 1984-1987
Kenny Monday (141) Tulsa Washington 1977-1980
Cecil Beisel (HWT) Perry 1975-1978
Leonard Shelton (HWT) Ponca City 1937-1940


Oh yeah did I mention theres only been 1 4x champ in California.

Hmm I wonder were its harder to be a 4x champ?

000000grappler I kknow your gonna say Im missing the point, I think you missed my point I mean it was my Topic post, and Rogan wasnt referring to the tradition or intensity he was stating that its more prestigious and more difficult to be a 4x Oklahoma champ, being a 4x champ in Oklahoma is like being an 8x champ in California is exactly what he said. I dont think that he was referring to anything else other than its tougher to win state in Oklahoma. It doesnt matter if he pulled California out of his ass just to make a point. On this rare occasion Rogan didnt know what he was talking about. I agree with you that wrestling in the midwest and might carrie more tradition and might get in the paper and all that shit more than here in California, and thats cool and all but so what.



Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one... You saying that theres only been one 4 time state champ can be taken both ways. Either there is tougher competition in Ca, like you will say, or the top caliber wrestlers in states like Oklahoma, Iowa, Pennsylvania, are more dominant, thus leading to their multiple state titles, like I would say.

As far as your own wrestling accolades? I read them, and you have been some places, and I am legitimately impressed. I dont want to not acknowledge that.

All of this being said, collegiate style wrestling is a struggling sport, and Im glad to have a real advocate for the sport on the site. Im sure we will talk grappling again!
szucconi
6/26/07 2:41:06PM

Posted by mmadb

I don't know if I read this wrong but answer me this. We are talking about state high school champions and Rogan said 8 time? Does this not imply that you would have to be in high school for 8 years? Also, if that is the case, being that Joe Rogan is a comedian maybe it was a joke?

Anyways, this thread is way over my head otherwise...



This whole thread is based on Rogan valuing a state title from OK more then a state title from CA. One could make the argument either way, but there is not way to compare. The evidence given so far is suspect at best and no solid conclusions can be drawn from it. Comparing the sets of wrestlers from each state is impossible and even if it were, what would you be comparing them on. Would you face the state champs against one another and see which won, I can assure you it would vary. The depth of a weight class varies from year to year and a great wrestler can come from anywhere. I would say RI has a chance to turn out an all-star team and crush OK and CA, but it is not likely due to the few number in the total pool of wrestlers. I would say that the average wrestler in OK is better then the average wrestler in CA only because of the sports popularity in OK and the lack there of in CA. There may be a fraction of the schools in OK, but there are 3X more people competing for spots. This scenario invalidates your comparison.
rcg916
6/26/07 2:42:19PM

Posted by szucconi


Posted by mmadb

I don't know if I read this wrong but answer me this. We are talking about state high school champions and Rogan said 8 time? Does this not imply that you would have to be in high school for 8 years? Also, if that is the case, being that Joe Rogan is a comedian maybe it was a joke?

Anyways, this thread is way over my head otherwise...



This whole thread is based on Rogan valuing a state title from OK more then a state title from CA. One could make the argument either way, but there is not way to compare. The evidence given so far is suspect at best and no solid conclusions can be drawn from it. Comparing the sets of wrestlers from each state is impossible and even if it were, what would you be comparing them on. Would you face the state champs against one another and see which won, I can assure you it would vary. The depth of a weight class varies from year to year and a great wrestler can come from anywhere. I would say RI has a chance to turn out an all-star team and crush OK and CA, but it is not likely due to the few number in the total pool of wrestlers. I would say that the average wrestler in OK is better then the average wrestler in CA only because of the sports popularity in OK and the lack there of in CA. There may be a fraction of the schools in OK, but there are 3X more people competing for spots. This scenario invalidates your comparison.



Im really starting to like this guy, lol
grappler0000
6/26/07 2:47:32PM

Posted by mmadb

I don't know if I read this wrong but answer me this. We are talking about state high school champions and Rogan said 8 time? Does this not imply that you would have to be in high school for 8 years? Also, if that is the case, being that Joe Rogan is a comedian maybe it was a joke?

Anyways, this thread is way over my head otherwise...



No, it wasn't intended as a joke. The only reason that Joe used 8x was he was essentially trying to say that it's twice as difficult to be a 4x state champ in OK as it is in most other states. He wasn't literally saying that it's twice as hard to be a 4x in Oklahoma as is California. In the end, he could've probably used a better state as an example, but I got the gist of what he was saying.
Piccosaur
6/26/07 2:58:00PM
Messing up once isn't really a big thing. He is an excellent announcer and has learned so much about MMA since he first started. He knows more than a lot of us actually...
grappler0000
6/26/07 3:43:34PM

Posted by Piccosaur

Messing up once isn't really a big thing. He is an excellent announcer and has learned so much about MMA since he first started. He knows more than a lot of us actually...



Yeah, it's a very minor error...if you even want to call it that. We're just busting bt155lbs' chops a little over it. It's all in good fun
bt155lbs
6/26/07 7:32:41PM

Posted by rcg916


Posted by bt155lbs

Bro I dont think Im anything like Cael Sanderson or anthing like that at all, and didnt mean to come off like I thought I was some bad ass wrestler. All I was trying to get across after you said something like I must be a current California wrestler and something liek ot ever possibly competetin against midwest wrestlers. All I was trying to show was that I have seen them and wrestled against them over the years and have seen California place much higher year after year in Fargo.



Damn people this is the locker room right, a place were you can post off the wall shit that bugged you or whatever else you feel like saying. My whole point was Joe made a statement referring to how its tougher to be a state champion in Oklahoma, and that I think Rogan does a good job and has a lot of knowledge of combat sports but on this rare occasion he was wrong.

You got me 0000000000000grappler, I took it to heart probably because I was a California wrestler, so what. I posted the topic because Im proud to have grown up wrestling in California and know first hand that its tougher to win 4 state titles here than in any other state. I dont know how the stats and facts could be anymore clear, infact heres a list of all of Oklahomas 4x high school state champs over the years.

Mike Bizzle (130) Cascia Hall 2002-2005
Ryan Henning (135) Tuttle 2001-2004
Brandon Tucker (112) Broken Arrow 2000-2003
Derrick Fleenor (119) El Reno 1999-2002
Teyon Ware (135) Edmond North 1999-2002
Clark Shouse (140) Morrison 1997-2000
Matt Grice (152) Harrah 1997-2000
Matt Bean (145) Mustang 1996-1999
Shane Roller (160) Bixby 1995-1998
Jeff Henning (171) Tuttle 1995-1998
Michael Lightner (130) Marlow 1993-1996
Steve Elkins (142) Madill 1992-1995
Jerry Best (136) Chandler 1988-1991
T. J. Jaworsky (123) Edmond 1987-1990
Kyle Rosebure (136) McAlester 1984-1987
Todd Chesbro (157) Stillwater 1984-1987
Kenny Monday (141) Tulsa Washington 1977-1980
Cecil Beisel (HWT) Perry 1975-1978
Leonard Shelton (HWT) Ponca City 1937-1940


Oh yeah did I mention theres only been 1 4x champ in California.

Hmm I wonder were its harder to be a 4x champ?

000000grappler I kknow your gonna say Im missing the point, I think you missed my point I mean it was my Topic post, and Rogan wasnt referring to the tradition or intensity he was stating that its more prestigious and more difficult to be a 4x Oklahoma champ, being a 4x champ in Oklahoma is like being an 8x champ in California is exactly what he said. I dont think that he was referring to anything else other than its tougher to win state in Oklahoma. It doesnt matter if he pulled California out of his ass just to make a point. On this rare occasion Rogan didnt know what he was talking about. I agree with you that wrestling in the midwest and might carrie more tradition and might get in the paper and all that shit more than here in California, and thats cool and all but so what.



Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one... You saying that theres only been one 4 time state champ can be taken both ways. Either there is tougher competition in Ca, like you will say, or the top caliber wrestlers in states like Oklahoma, Iowa, Pennsylvania, are more dominant, thus leading to their multiple state titles, like I would say.

As far as your own wrestling accolades? I read them, and you have been some places, and I am legitimately impressed. I dont want to not acknowledge that.

All of this being said, collegiate style wrestling is a struggling sport, and Im glad to have a real advocate for the sport on the site. Im sure we will talk grappling again!



Yeah for sure, agree to disagree on this one. I prefer submission grappling/wrestling/ no gi whatever you want to call it over wrestling. Its kind of like Wrestling is checkers and submission grappling is chess. I love it. Thanks for debating with me, I just got on this mmaplayground like a week and a half ago and have noticed that I get a little excited and rush to write out a response and after re reading my post say like an hour later I see that some of my replies might come off disrespectful or arrogant. I apoligize 000grappler if any of my responses were taken offensively. Thios mmaplayground site is the shit, and Im glad to be on here debating with you guys over our thoughts.
rcg916
6/26/07 8:01:48PM
I do the same thing, its all good bro. Got any vids of you wrestling uploaded? (sorry, a lot of guys are uploading videos, thought Id try, wouldnt mind seeing you wrestle)
grappler0000
6/26/07 8:45:34PM
@bt155lbs - it's all good. I was actually givin' ya a little more sh*t, since I did notice that you just joined recently. This is a great site for conversation and debate...there's a few people out there that take it too far, but that's the exception to the rule. Anyway, I always respect a fellow wrestler.