It is time to debate! Chuck Liddell vs. Rampage Jackson #2

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DoTheMMAth
2/6/07 1:10:10AM

Posted by Svartorm

I call Rampage in the 4th via GnP, and heres why:

Hes got a great chin

His stand up style helps negate looping punches, which is what helped him last time against Chuck, and this hasn't changed since the last fight.

Hes much younger than Chuck, and is generally in better shape when he trains.

He has the skills to take Chuck down, and keep him down. The last time Chuck was taken to the ground and kept there, it was against.....Rampage, who he lost to. The time before that, it was against Randy, who he lost to.

Rampage is a smart fighter on the ground. Hes one of the few guys that really works the body on the ground, which will hurt Chuck later in the fight, and what won him the fight last time.

He trains with Tito, who has fought Chuck recently, and will help Rampage overcome him.

Now, a really big one that no one has mentioned. Rampage has the potential to be a fan favorite, even over Chuck. If he gets a few big wins and some mic time, he'll be a star. In the late rounds of a title fight, if he can impose his will, and get the fans to rally behind him, that could really take Chuck out of his game and be the last nail in the casket.



I still think Chuck would win, but I just wanted to post to say "thank you" for bringing out some good food for thought on this (seemingly inevitable) matchup in the "new" UFC. Your angle has deffinitely planted a couple seeds of doubt in my mind.
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 1:14:05AM

Posted by Svartorm

I call Rampage in the 4th via GnP, and heres why:

Hes got a great chin

His stand up style helps negate looping punches, which is what helped him last time against Chuck, and this hasn't changed since the last fight.

Hes much younger than Chuck, and is generally in better shape when he trains.

He has the skills to take Chuck down, and keep him down. The last time Chuck was taken to the ground and kept there, it was against.....Rampage, who he lost to. The time before that, it was against Randy, who he lost to.

Rampage is a smart fighter on the ground. Hes one of the few guys that really works the body on the ground, which will hurt Chuck later in the fight, and what won him the fight last time.

He trains with Tito, who has fought Chuck recently, and will help Rampage overcome him.

Now, a really big one that no one has mentioned. Rampage has the potential to be a fan favorite, even over Chuck. If he gets a few big wins and some mic time, he'll be a star. In the late rounds of a title fight, if he can impose his will, and get the fans to rally behind him, that could really take Chuck out of his game and be the last nail in the casket.




thats exactly how i see the fight going down...Late rounds via GnP...
Svartorm
2/6/07 1:20:54AM

Posted by DoTheMMAth


Posted by Svartorm

I call Rampage in the 4th via GnP, and heres why:

Hes got a great chin

His stand up style helps negate looping punches, which is what helped him last time against Chuck, and this hasn't changed since the last fight.

Hes much younger than Chuck, and is generally in better shape when he trains.

He has the skills to take Chuck down, and keep him down. The last time Chuck was taken to the ground and kept there, it was against.....Rampage, who he lost to. The time before that, it was against Randy, who he lost to.

Rampage is a smart fighter on the ground. Hes one of the few guys that really works the body on the ground, which will hurt Chuck later in the fight, and what won him the fight last time.

He trains with Tito, who has fought Chuck recently, and will help Rampage overcome him.

Now, a really big one that no one has mentioned. Rampage has the potential to be a fan favorite, even over Chuck. If he gets a few big wins and some mic time, he'll be a star. In the late rounds of a title fight, if he can impose his will, and get the fans to rally behind him, that could really take Chuck out of his game and be the last nail in the casket.



I still think Chuck would win, but I just wanted to post to say "thank you" for bringing out some good food for thought on this (seemingly inevitable) matchup in the "new" UFC. Your angle has deffinitely planted a couple seeds of doubt in my mind.



You can give me "props" once you got that thing ironed out.

And don't get me wrong, Chuck can still win, as Quinton is less than invincible and has lost to lesser opponents than Chuck. If he comes in at 100% and has the fans behind him though, I think Chucks title reign is over. Then maybe he can float up to heavyweight and give that a whirl.
Manfred
2/6/07 2:20:15AM

Posted by Nacho

Chuck's best weapon... supreme confidence.



That confidence was over guys he already beat though. Rampage didn't sqeak out a decision, he DOMINATED Chuck.

I'm sure Chuck will have confidence in his improved skills, but nothing like Tito/Babalu/Randy.

This one is a toss-up, much like Chuck/Wandy. Any given night, it could go either way.

Like someone already stated, we'll have to see more of Rampage first
aceprone
2/6/07 3:45:03AM

Posted by Svartorm

I call Rampage in the 4th via GnP, and heres why:

Hes got a great chin

His stand up style helps negate looping punches, which is what helped him last time against Chuck, and this hasn't changed since the last fight.

Hes much younger than Chuck, and is generally in better shape when he trains.

He has the skills to take Chuck down, and keep him down. The last time Chuck was taken to the ground and kept there, it was against.....Rampage, who he lost to. The time before that, it was against Randy, who he lost to.

Rampage is a smart fighter on the ground. Hes one of the few guys that really works the body on the ground, which will hurt Chuck later in the fight, and what won him the fight last time.

He trains with Tito, who has fought Chuck recently, and will help Rampage overcome him.

Now, a really big one that no one has mentioned. Rampage has the potential to be a fan favorite, even over Chuck. If he gets a few big wins and some mic time, he'll be a star. In the late rounds of a title fight, if he can impose his will, and get the fans to rally behind him, that could really take Chuck out of his game and be the last nail in the casket.




I never thought about that before. Rampage being the fan favorite over Chuck. This is very possible. But I don't think Chuck really cares about what the audience thinks. It's hard to take a guy out of his mental game when he'll fight anyone for a dollar, but that is a good point I never thought about.
Svartorm
2/6/07 3:57:42AM
Hes been the fan favorite for awhile now, but the first time he fought Randy, he certainly wasn't, and he fought like absolute crap. Randy beat him standing and on the ground in that one. The second time his popularity had risen because of the show and hes been the face of the UFC ever since.

It might not seem like it would make that much of a difference, but in later rounds when you're tired as hel and the fans are cheering for the guy kicking your ass, it doesn't do much to urge you on.
hippysmacker
2/6/07 4:04:47AM
Dude if you weren't in the same camp as me I would wager you on this one. When it happens we gotta think up some sort o otherf good bet.
Svartorm
2/6/07 4:09:14AM
Did you forget we have a wager for Yvel vs. Sergei already?

I'll put good money on Rampage, provided the senario I've put down above happens.
hippysmacker
2/6/07 4:13:33AM
Now that we are in the same camp we'll have to cancel it.
Street_Fighter
2/6/07 10:22:48AM
As much as I like both Liddell and Jackson, I think right now Liddell has the advantage. Fighters have to learn you just can't attack Liddell, because of his great defensive punching power. Liddell waits for the other person to come after him. That's his game plan, and it works every time.

In my own opinion. I think to beat Liddell, he needs to be put in a Muay Thai clinch. Forget trying to take him down. Like I said before, I really like Liddell, but there is someone I think can beat him.

Wanderlei vs Liddell would be a close fight, but even better would be:



Mauricio "Shogun" Rua vs Chuck "Iceman" Liddell


Would it ever happen?
Only the fans can make it happen.
mmadb
2/6/07 11:08:41AM
Jackson + Jesus = Liddell Victory
Jackson - Jesus = Liddell Loss
BabbyHughes
2/6/07 11:12:46AM

chucks takedown defense is worthless if Rampage picks him up off the ground and slams him...he most likely wont do it and waste his energy,but if he is in trouble and chuck is getting the better of him he can take chuck down at will


Definately. Randy and Tito have different takedown styles as compared to Rampage. Rampage has a unique style that beat Chuck before, and he has a mental advantage because he has already beat Chuck before. I know that the mental advantage of beating someone before doesn't work for every fighter, but I think in Chuck's case it might be that way.

If Chuck is going to win this next fight, he needs to really work on his cardio, because Rampage will bring it 5 rounds. He may not have as good of cardio as Tito, but he still has alot better cardio than Chuck imo. I think Rampage is a whole different fighter now, especially since he doesn't have to worry about money and can focus on building his career in the UFC.

I think the pressure is on Chuck, more than it is on Rampage. This is the biggest threat to Chuck's belt right now.
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 2:48:23PM

Posted by hippysmacker

Dude if you weren't in the same camp as me I would wager you on this one. When it happens we gotta think up some sort o otherf good bet.



we're not in the same camp...

by that time we will prolly have enough for a $1000/$1000 bet.....any bet will do
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 2:59:13PM
Rampage fights tall...he uses his height to his advantage....unlike Tito and Randy who fight short and bend their knees too much and duck their heads.....i know Rampage can beat chuck standing....he's just a better boxer
Street_Fighter
2/6/07 3:52:28PM
Rampage doesn't have a good enough chin to handle Liddell. Plus Rampage can't hit hard enough to knock Liddell out. Remember the Liddell Mezger fight? Liddell got hit hard there and recovered so fast, and that's around the same time he fought Rampage. Liddell wasn't as good as he is now.

Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 4:09:16PM

Posted by Street_Fighter

Rampage doesn't have a good enough chin to handle Liddell. Plus Rampage can't hit hard enough to knock Liddell out. Remember the Liddell Mezger fight? Liddell got hit hard there and recovered so fast, and that's around the same time he fought Rampage. Liddell wasn't as good as he is now.




Rampage doesnt have good enough chin to handle liddell?...you must be joking

did you see the Rampage Wandi fight?? you know how many knees Rampage took to the head/face before going down? Wandi's knees are Twice as powerful as one of chucks blows..i dont know..but i hope the fight is real soon...i wouldnt want people saying "chuck only lost because he is past his prime"
Spiderman
2/6/07 4:47:57PM
I Disagree with a lot of things the thread starter said . #1 being " and set up strikes for takedowns " being a factor in the fight . If Rampage has to look for Takedowns he is getting KTFO ! Chuck is hard to take down , and hard to keep down that is his best attribute . Rampage beat Chuck because he wasnt looking for takedowns He beat Chuck straight up at strikeing .

I also disagree with people who say Chuck will win because he improved his cardio .. Chuck was outstruck by Rampage from the opening bell . He eat a ton on clean right hands because he was easy to hit , not becauase he was tired .

Rampage has looked poor lately , he Lost to ninja Imo as well as the commentatores who watched the fight [ also Rampage's he tried to give the winners trophy to Ninja ] and also he looked bad against Lindland . But those fights / fighters are a differant style than what a fight with Chuck would be like . Those are fights in the clinch , The fight with Chuck will be mostly standup from mid range . The most disturbing thing about Rampage is he has said he dosent want to fight ' tough guys " anymore . When he was in Pride he said he wanted easy fights and turned down fights against any tough opp [ after he got ktfo by Shogun ] and now he wants to hold of fighting Liddel ? If Rampage can get the fire back I think he can beat Liddel he has the right tools and Liddel is a good matchup for him , but if is just there for a paycheck and has no real desire I dont see him beating Liddel .
JunCTion
2/6/07 4:55:38PM
he's not just here for the paycheck. he doesn't want to lose face. i believe him when he says he wants a couple fights first. he told joe he didn't think it would be right for his first fight to be for the belt. i do think his next fight before chuck has to be against a top contender.
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 5:02:19PM

Posted by JunCTion

he's not just here for the paycheck. he doesn't want to lose face. i believe him when he says he wants a couple fights first. he told joe he didn't think it would be right for his first fight to be for the belt. i do think his next fight before chuck has to be against a top contender.



if Rampage fights a top contender i hope its against a striker like Jardine or Forrest where Rampage has the advantage
JunCTion
2/6/07 5:08:55PM
but what if forrest wins? no shot for rampage. i don't think forrest deserves a shot with his most recent record. i think this division might be thinning out
cowcatcher
2/6/07 5:22:59PM

Posted by JunCTion

but what if forrest wins? no shot for rampage. i don't think forrest deserves a shot with his most recent record. i think this division might be thinning out



the division has been thin with the exception of chuck, tito, and babalu its a bunch of TUF guys(potential is there but no big wins yet) that's why they brought in rampage. i think chuck is gonna win this fight for one reason---he beats guys up who have 1 uped him before. i just see the guy coming in with a fire in his belly to get revenge, which so far he always has. rampage is awesome and probably the best personality in MMA but when chuck has a chance to get 1 back he comes through.
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 5:25:15PM
I think Forrest beats Jardine 7 times out of 10....that night was just Jardines night and Forrest got clipped....Forrest is still at the top 7 IMO and if Rampage wants some warm up fights before liddell they're gonna gonna put him in with elite competition like Sobral...and they're not gonna throw an other Eastman at him

Chuck....1
Tito.....2
Sobral....3
Rampage..4
Jardine...5
Rashad..6
Forrest..7


i wont be happy unless Rampage fights Jardine,Rashad,or Forrest next..


i think if Rampage wants a other fight before Liddell then Liddell will have to defend his title once more too...it has to be Jardine vs Liddell next

and Rampage vs Forrest....or Rashad
JunCTion
2/6/07 5:34:54PM
sorry, rashad slipped my mind. but are those bottom 3 really ready? and how many chances do tito and babalu get. the best senario for us the fans would be for rampage to win, give tito and babalu a shot at him and than have a rematch with chuck if it works out that way. do you think tito would have the fighting a friend problem with rampage that he had with chuck.
BabbyHughes
2/6/07 7:51:53PM

I Disagree with a lot of things the thread starter said . #1 being " and set up strikes for takedowns " being a factor in the fight . If Rampage has to look for Takedowns he is getting KTFO ! Chuck is hard to take down , and hard to keep down that is his best attribute . Rampage beat Chuck because he wasnt looking for takedowns He beat Chuck straight up at strikeing .

You should watch their first fight again, and you will see how much damage he caused to Chuck when he was on his feet and on the ground, which was also where he ended the fight (ground). I think that Rampage has the style to beat Chuck again, because he can strike and take him down. In both standing up and on the ground, Rampage can end the fight.

Also, Chuck doesn't throw alot of knees, therefore, if Rampage is standing in the pocket and striking with him, he will be close enough to take him down if he choses. I doubt he is going to chase Chuck around like Randy and Tito did and shoot in head first at Chuck's knees.

Like their first fight, he strikes and strikes and then grabs Chuck's waist whenever he went for a takedown.

here's a video highlight link of their first fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NALAeRdSkY8
hippysmacker
2/6/07 9:09:19PM

Posted by Trapt1nw0nder


Posted by hippysmacker

Dude if you weren't in the same camp as me I would wager you on this one. When it happens we gotta think up some sort o otherf good bet.



we're not in the same camp...

by that time we will prolly have enough for a $1000/$1000 bet.....any bet will do



When it happens, your on Bro .
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 9:14:44PM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by Trapt1nw0nder


Posted by hippysmacker

Dude if you weren't in the same camp as me I would wager you on this one. When it happens we gotta think up some sort o otherf good bet.



we're not in the same camp...

by that time we will prolly have enough for a $1000/$1000 bet.....any bet will do



When it happens, your on Bro .



Cool...i'll remember that

Props 4 dat!
gimp1967
2/6/07 9:56:44PM

Posted by jmoooooo

cant wait also, but i think chuck has his number now

rampages striking didnt look great against eastman, who is smaller with a shorter reach and has more conventional striking.....and yes, rampage has great takedowns and is strong, but chucks TD defense is great and even when he ends up down he seems to find his way back up in a hurry....i dont see it being a lot different than ortiz/chuck......rampage is going to have to eat a lot of appendages (chosen at chucks discretion) to even get close to a takedown...

i like rampage, i think hes a great addition to the UFC, i want to see more of him, and i think the title fight will be awesome...but i just cant see him winning

randy - great wrestler, great takedowns, great ground and pound and was a huge LHW, and chuck beat him twice

ortiz - great wrestler, great takedowns, great ground and pound and is always in top shape, chuck beat him twice

rampage - great wrestler, great takedowns, great ground and pound........???

ive been wrong before though, and it could go either way.....but i think chuck has the edge, and would go in as the moderate favorite



I totally agree. I feel Rampage just ain't got what he used to have when he was in Pride after his losses, he seems different somehow.

I'm not sayin' it'll be an easy fight for either guy. But my play money'll definately be on The Ice Man!
jmoooooo
2/6/07 10:07:58PM
one thing im going to add, after re-watching the first rampage/chuck fight....chuck moved forward that entire fight.....something he doesnt often do..it will be interesting to see how the fight progresses when rampage has to come to him.....chuck is well known as a counter puncher, but in that fight he was the agressor......different strategy might make a huge difference as well
Trapt1nw0nder
2/6/07 11:20:40PM

Posted by jmoooooo

one thing im going to add, after re-watching the first rampage/chuck fight....chuck moved forward that entire fight.....something he doesnt often do..it will be interesting to see how the fight progresses when rampage has to come to him.....chuck is well known as a counter puncher, but in that fight he was the agressor......different strategy might make a huge difference as well



styles make fights.....there is a reason chuck was trying to move forward and be the aggressor....Rampage was walking his down and making chuck defend himself by fighting back...something other fighters dont do...other fighters fight chucks fight where you just countering and countering...where chuck wins cuz one landed counter win him the fight...
Trapt1nw0nder
2/7/07 12:00:57AM
damn i would love to hear more opinions from this thread from different people....i wonder why very little people talk on this forum....i like this place its very clean and easy to navigate...and much faster than other forums....

i wish more people would come and join this site for posting in forums....


*starts recruiting*
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