Tim Sylvia: Where There's Smoke, There's Fire

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juanez13
2/12/08 10:12:25PM
In this week's print edition of The Wrestling Observer, Dave Meltzer reports that negotiations between Tim Sylvia and The UFC are not going so well. He says they are a "full digit apart" on numbers, which suggests that Tim really is delusional, and that we won't be seeing him for a while.

UFC really dodged a bullet with his loss to Nogueira. If he had won they would have had to pay him whatever they wanted or else they would have lost another heavyweight champion to contract issues.


LINK
silverbullet
2/12/08 10:15:44PM
Tim would be so awesome in the UFC if not for the gay submissions!
cmill21
2/12/08 10:18:58PM
What is the UFC doing with their HW div? They might end up with Nog, Herring, Kongo, Mir and Lesnar as their top 5....
Kpro
2/12/08 10:41:34PM
UFC should only let fighters fight for the title with a semi-contract in place whereas if the fighter wins the belt, the tentative contract goes into place. If the fighter doesn't win the belt, it doesn't.

This would guarantee anyone winning the title is under contract, even if their existing contract has 0 or 1 fight remaining.

While also making sure they don't sign someone long term who doesn't put on a performance worthy of an extension.

This would also allow fighter such as AA to have fought for the title with only 1 fight remaining, as a win locks in the guaranteed portion and a loss sets the fighter free.

Sounds like it wouldn't be that hard to structure tentative contracts this way, based on the outcome of a title fight.
quezocrema0032
2/12/08 10:51:30PM
how does sylvia lose a fight and get upset that he isnt getting payed more yea lesner shouldnt be making more then him and the ufc needs 2 fix that but bottom line is hes making more so accept it and be a man about it we cant keep having guys leaving over contracts !
SmileR
2/12/08 11:10:06PM

Posted by Kpro

UFC should only let fighters fight for the title with a semi-contract in place whereas if the fighter wins the belt, the tentative contract goes into place. If the fighter doesn't win the belt, it doesn't.

This would guarantee anyone winning the title is under contract, even if their existing contract has 0 or 1 fight remaining.

While also making sure they don't sign someone long term who doesn't put on a performance worthy of an extension.

This would also allow fighter such as AA to have fought for the title with only 1 fight remaining, as a win locks in the guaranteed portion and a loss sets the fighter free.

Sounds like it wouldn't be that hard to structure tentative contracts this way, based on the outcome of a title fight.



Thats a awesome idea!

jomatty
2/13/08 2:44:20AM
i dont like the idea too much. just seems to me like you would end up with the same issues they would just have to be handled earlier. i dont like anything that locks a fighter in, especially for a win. it is kinda like the fedor thing where he couldnt leave if he was undefeated. the guy just won the belt he should be able to renegotiate his contract.

and tim is crazy if he thinks he "deserves" more than lesnar. does he really think he is getting paid to fight? he is getting paid by a business to sell tickets and make money and like it or not, brock can sell a lot more tickets and ppv's, so why in the world wouldnt he get paid more for doing so. in a perfect world maybe fighters would get paid based on how well they fight but unless fight promoting becomes a non profit thing (lol) then that will never be how it is.
ocho-cinco
2/13/08 4:15:10AM

Posted by silverbullet

Tim would be so awesome in the UFC if not for the gay submissions!



uhh.... are you, like, being sarcastic mann?
Pookie
2/13/08 4:38:26AM
that must be 6 digits then, and they only want to pay him 5... they need to keep him... if kongo is in youre orgs top 5 then you need to shop for more fighters.


with arlovski, cro-cop, and couture not willing to fight for the amount they're being paid Sylvia is making a great financial move. Kicking them while they're down per-say. With so many fighters leaving at once, for the same reasons, the UFC cant target them all, its like what happened after the USSR broke up. Everybody left at once so that they could leave peacefully without being targeted by russia. The countries that waited before splitting got bombed.

Anybody that doesnt like what they are being paid should do what these guys are doing, if enough fighters do it a union will emerge and the UFC will have to settle or risk ppv sales.

VIVA EL REVOLUCION!!!!
telnights
2/13/08 5:16:45AM
Timmy is asking for a cool Million. Thats a good . He is a good fighter but not worth that kind of money. I would like to see the company willing to do this because I can guarantee you that company will go under. I think this has a lot to do with his manager Monte Cox and the fact he is the CEO of M-1. Because of this huge conflict of interest Monte Cox is going to end up hurting his fighters, his company, and himself.
Pookie
2/13/08 5:24:56AM

Posted by telnights

Timmy is asking for a cool Million. Thats a good . He is a good fighter but not worth that kind of money. I would like to see the company willing to do this because I can guarantee you that company will go under. I think this has a lot to do with his manager Monte Cox and the fact he is the CEO of M-1. Because of this huge conflict of interest Monte Cox is going to end up hurting his fighters, his company, and himself.



A million?

Im pretty sure hes asking for 6 digits and is being offered 5, theres no way he could ever think he'd be getting a million from any organization.

postman
2/13/08 7:56:24AM

Posted by telnights

Timmy is asking for a cool Million. Thats a good . He is a good fighter but not worth that kind of money. I would like to see the company willing to do this because I can guarantee you that company will go under. I think this has a lot to do with his manager Monte Cox and the fact he is the CEO of M-1. Because of this huge conflict of interest Monte Cox is going to end up hurting his fighters, his company, and himself.



I pretty sure if Monte starts offering eneryone Million dollar contracts you will see the UFC talent pool start to shrink quickly. I am not saying Tim wants or is worth a million but the UFC may want to start thinking about taking care of there best fighters.
Ordep
2/13/08 9:03:19AM

I always said it's all about money and benefits,[sarc.] yeah but you know the fighters really care to be in the UFC because of the name and the top competition and if you're offered ten bucks a and you dont take it that's a bad move for you [/sarc.]
So now wonder why they were talking about the next shot for Werdum
tuvok500
2/13/08 10:34:14AM
It's call negotiation guys !!

A fighter make demands and normally start very high and the company offer something normally much lower.

Sylvia is taking a chance and the UFC have not bitted, that's all.

AManCalledE
2/13/08 11:30:17AM
Since Timmay isn't happy that Lesnar is making more than him, then I think Tim and Brock should fight in a "Winner Makes More" match!
Ordep
2/13/08 12:22:00PM

Posted by AManCalledE

Since Timmay isn't happy that Lesnar is making more than him, then I think Tim and Brock should fight in a "Winner Makes More" match!



with the suitcase full of money hanging from the ceiling 15 feet above them?
Lay_N_Pray
2/13/08 2:09:13PM
Yeah and throw in a ladder and make the octagon wrapped in barbed wire and it would be awesome.

But in all reality its just time for the UFC to say screw it and let fighters be journeymen and sign fighters to cards and nots contracts. If you win a title, then you fight for the company until you lose the title. If you don't have a title, do what you want. It would be great for the sport to see Fedor pop up and then Gonzaga pop up in Elite XC and just a nice free trade of fighters.

I know its impossible, im just saying it would be awesome.
telnights
2/13/08 2:40:28PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by telnights

Timmy is asking for a cool Million. Thats a good . He is a good fighter but not worth that kind of money. I would like to see the company willing to do this because I can guarantee you that company will go under. I think this has a lot to do with his manager Monte Cox and the fact he is the CEO of M-1. Because of this huge conflict of interest Monte Cox is going to end up hurting his fighters, his company, and himself.



A million?

Im pretty sure hes asking for 6 digits and is being offered 5, theres no way he could ever think he'd be getting a million from any organization.




I'm fairly sure the UFC is willing to pay Timmy 100k. So I get a feeling he is asking for much more than that. I maybe wrong but we will have to wait and see.


Posted by postman
I pretty sure if Monte starts offering eneryone Million dollar contracts you will see the UFC talent pool start to shrink quickly. I am not saying Tim wants or is worth a million but the UFC may want to start thinking about taking care of there best fighters.



They are way over paying Fedor (millions) to fight cans so I have no doubt they would offer some fighters a million to fight. I don't see M-1 last long at this rate. I don't think the UFC has a problem taking care of its fighters. I think the problem is a manager thats trying to play both sides of the fence. Before Dana was the head of the UFC he managed both Chuck and Tito and once he took over as head of the UFC he stopped being a manger because it a huge conflict of interest.
dstlvb
2/13/08 3:07:36PM
Why as fans are we willing to just chalk it up to bussinsess as usual. The UFC with there strong arm tactics has lost Randy, Cro Cop maybe, and AA. Now Tim is making waves. I dont know about you but i dont want this to be boxing. Where we all watch the promoters make outlandish statements about fighters and put together title matches with fighters who shoudnt be fighting for them and promoters making all the money. It amazes me that the UFC seems to have run off 4 maybe 5 of the top ten HW in the world and we simply say, oh its just bussiness. Dana was the perfect guy to get the UFC to where it is, but maybe he isnt suited to keep them here.
Tein_Lung
2/13/08 4:35:50PM
Honeslty i won't miss Tim, he hasn't really had an exciting fight in 2 years with exception of nog.... Tim got very good at not losing instead of going out for the win... I also think Tim knows his prime is past him, with Mir looking goof again he would prolly beat Tim in the near future and Tims ground game is not as underrated as everyone think it flat out blows, almost everytime someone takes Tim down he loses, yeah Snowman couldn't finish him because he was a foot shorter then tim and too small . He was a god striker but whats left of teh HW div are guys with more of a ground game then stand up game and he cannot fight people who have ground games... Randy proved that quite blatently
telnights
2/13/08 7:53:13PM

Posted by dstlvb

Why as fans are we willing to just chalk it up to bussinsess as usual. The UFC with there strong arm tactics has lost Randy, Cro Cop maybe, and AA. Now Tim is making waves. I dont know about you but i dont want this to be boxing. Where we all watch the promoters make outlandish statements about fighters and put together title matches with fighters who shoudnt be fighting for them and promoters making all the money. It amazes me that the UFC seems to have run off 4 maybe 5 of the top ten HW in the world and we simply say, oh its just bussiness. Dana was the perfect guy to get the UFC to where it is, but maybe he isnt suited to keep them here.




Give me a break dont blame the UFC for Randy leaving. Randy asked for more money mid contract. You just don't do that with any company.

Cro Cop I think they are cutting him a bit early if all the rumors are true but thats their choice and doesn't mean they are running him off.

AA hasn't said anything about leaving. It was just said he didn't want to extend his contract till after the old contract was up. This is just so he can play the market and get the best deal. But its been said many times that by AA and his management that they have a good relationship with the UFC.

Tim is fully aware of his contract. He is upset that someone that has less the 2 years training and only 1 pro fight got payed more than him. But what he doesn't understand is Brock is a much better PPV draw than he is. It also has to do with the fact his manger is playing both sides of the fence. Which is really unfair to Tim.

jomatty
2/14/08 5:06:06PM
these threads get so old because it is always two sides of posters saying one thing or the other and trying to persuade people with the exact same argument. im more guilty than most and am going to try to sit out from now on (but no promises lol)
Pookie
2/14/08 5:28:09PM

Posted by jomatty

these threads get so old because it is always two sides of posters saying one thing or the other and trying to persuade people with the exact same argument. im more guilty than most and am going to try to sit out from now on (but no promises lol)



you're right lol.

And usually its the same people arguing the same things to the same people they were arguing with beforehand.

And usually im one of them.
cmill21
2/14/08 5:59:57PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by jomatty

these threads get so old because it is always two sides of posters saying one thing or the other and trying to persuade people with the exact same argument. im more guilty than most and am going to try to sit out from now on (but no promises lol)



you're right lol.

And usually its the same people arguing the same things to the same people they were arguing with beforehand.

And usually im one of them.



Yeah lately it's been "Fedor sucks" vs. "Fedors amazing". It's getting rediculous, you can't even post a Cro Cop topic without it leading to "Fedor's overrated if Cro Cop beats him".
Pookie
2/14/08 8:43:03PM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by Pookie


Posted by jomatty

these threads get so old because it is always two sides of posters saying one thing or the other and trying to persuade people with the exact same argument. im more guilty than most and am going to try to sit out from now on (but no promises lol)



you're right lol.

And usually its the same people arguing the same things to the same people they were arguing with beforehand.

And usually im one of them.



Yeah lately it's been "Fedor sucks" vs. "Fedors amazing". It's getting rediculous, you can't even post a Cro Cop topic without it leading to "Fedor's overrated if Cro Cop beats him".


LOL
Glad to say im usually on youre side of the argument though
telnights
2/15/08 3:08:59AM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by jomatty

these threads get so old because it is always two sides of posters saying one thing or the other and trying to persuade people with the exact same argument. im more guilty than most and am going to try to sit out from now on (but no promises lol)



you're right lol.

And usually its the same people arguing the same things to the same people they were arguing with beforehand.

And usually im one of them.



But thats kind of the point of forum. Its to discuses things in a open manner. It we all agreed it would be really boring.
Kracker_Jap
2/15/08 3:11:51AM

Posted by jomatty

these threads get so old because it is always two sides of posters saying one thing or the other and trying to persuade people with the exact same argument. im more guilty than most and am going to try to sit out from now on (but no promises lol)



I agree.....

These kinds of threads are old
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