Thoughts on the Guillotine winning guys rounds...

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Boo_Radley21
3/13/12 2:53:00AM
Recently I read that a lot of people mentioned the guillotine attempt as the reason Henderson won one of the rounds against Edgar...I also remember when Dunham fought Sherk and kept sinking in guillotines and people though sub attempts should have helped warrented him the win ( I will admit I was once a pretty defensive Sherk fan, but I'll admit that fight was clooooose for a number of reasons other than the guillotine but regardless people though the guillotine attempts were something that shold have gotten him more points)

But to be completely honest I'd say the guillotine choke is the easiest sub to lock in in all of grappling and MMA that is legal in the UFC. Who can't put their arm around someones neck during a takedown or in the guard? I mean come on. If you ask me...something like that doesnt warrant enough points to get a round. The ease in which Sherk and Edgar got out shows it was never a really threatening situation (also shows why Sherk never bothered to defend it during the take down cause he could just yank his neck out)

Anyways, I'm just saying I think the guillotine choke really doesnt show much if any MMA skill. I know there's not much that can be done cause people can just argue what makes it different than any sub attempt...but I just think if someone gets a guillotine and the guy pulls his head out it really has never made me think "WOW what a sub attempt!!!!"

Except Swick on Bonnar in ultimate fighter 1
tcunningham
3/13/12 3:24:58AM
not sure if you grapple/fight or not nut the guillotine can be a very difficult move to get on high level grapplers. that being said, i think the judges need to look very close to see if the guillotine has the fighter in trouble or not. the bendo guillotine just about ended the night for edgar so it has to go on the score cards as a significant part of the round. frankie is lucky to have survived a bendo guillotine that was that deep. if the guillotine aint deep but the guy is just to stupid to know he aint got it then he shouldn't earn shit for it on the scorecards. unfortunately the judges dont always have a good angle to see or they are just uneducated.
Pookie
3/13/12 5:30:25AM
Honestly, i think When most fighters have a good Guillotine sunk in, they burn out their arms in the process. I'm for awarding points for Guillotines that are tight, because in later rounds the lactic acid build-up is likely to hinder them later. And i feel that is the benefit of the fighter who gets out of the Guillotine, they made their opponent work harder than they did, and they survived.

And if it's not a good guillotine, than i don't really even award it to either fighter, as it's negligible and minute in comparison to the other moments of the round.
Boo_Radley21
3/16/12 5:10:37AM

Posted by tcunningham

not sure if you grapple/fight or not nut the guillotine can be a very difficult move to get on high level grapplers. that being said, i think the judges need to look very close to see if the guillotine has the fighter in trouble or not. the bendo guillotine just about ended the night for edgar so it has to go on the score cards as a significant part of the round. frankie is lucky to have survived a bendo guillotine that was that deep. if the guillotine aint deep but the guy is just to stupid to know he aint got it then he shouldn't earn shit for it on the scorecards. unfortunately the judges dont always have a good angle to see or they are just uneducated.



I'm in no means saying the guillotine is an easy sub to lock in at any level of grappling depending on the opponent. In the initital post I said it's the easiest sub. I can't think of anything that's easier to lock in. A rear naked you need to have the back. I feel an armbar, kimura, triangle, americana, gogo, leglock etc... requires more skill than a guillotine. any sub is gonna require a bit of luck with a bit of skill just like anything in the world like getting a knockout, scoring an nhl goal or getting a music deal but the guillotine is something that for example can be grabbed quick from someone trying to take you down if they happen to leave their neck open.

that being said, both you and pookie made very good posts and i can understand both. both gave me a different point of view on the sityation
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