Your thought on lifting weights and MMA

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fedorwins1
1/15/08 7:55:12PM
Just as the title says. What do you think about competing in MMA and lifting weights like squat, deadlift, bench, powerclean, etc.

My opinion is that lifting is not NECESSARY for MMA. Some things should be done like body weight exercises(pushups, boxjumps, etc.) I used to be huge in lifting weights, but I find that a BJJ class is good enough for strength used for fighting. Some BJJ guys have horrible big three numbers, but when you roll with them they seem like a gorilla. I'm beginning to think body weight exercises are better for MMA than lifting heavy weights.
danny81
1/15/08 8:08:59PM
i say it helps but not essential. i also think BW excercises help but are not essential
Rush
1/15/08 8:10:57PM
In the competitive or sub-elite MMA fights (i.e. most small orgs) I think technique is more important. That being said, I know some guys that competed in submission wrestling tournaments and say that a lot of guys are relying on their strength to win and get take downs. Most/all of these guys never win at a reasonably competitive level.

When you start to get elite, I think fighters need some edge. Some guys get stronger with weights, but I generally don't. I have gotten stronger, faster and with less time put in; doing plyometric exercises.

fedorwins1
1/15/08 8:19:58PM

Posted by Rush
I have gotten stronger, faster and with less time put in; doing plyometric exercises.




Plyos FTW!
The_Grim_Reaper
1/15/08 8:42:29PM
nothing, too big but usually like me i just started like lifting weight everyday at the gym, and getting stronger and bigger and eventuLLY started my mma training and i dont go to the gym anymore except once a in while to do a whole body powerlifting.strengtth training routine but not crazy just like flat bench, rows, squat or lunges, standing shoulder presses, maybe leg pressess and....thats about it something like this once a week or evry other week
KeNn
1/15/08 11:07:30PM
plyometric exercises best mma exercise.

But weight lifting is good as well, speed lifting. Not mass weight , just enough with quick reps. I use two 10lbs dumb bells and do curls, and a few grappling lifts.

as for anything past that, I don't think you have too, Unless your hurt lifting weights is a good thing to do to increase power, and stay in shape. This one guy I know before he was weak, then hurt his knee had surgery lifted weights all the time he was off, came back NOW HES A TANK. Perfect technique, With a perfect physique You can't go wrong!!!

But honestly Body weight exercises, plyometric exercises, good diet, and lots of cardio. Will do just fine for ammatuer mma.
loonytnt
1/16/08 1:06:30PM
its helps i think, one of my fighters did power liftin and he is a good fighter so he is hard to sub him, 135 and he can push 300

str+tech=good
StevenSeagal
1/16/08 3:03:11PM

Posted by loonytnt

its helps i think, one of my fighters did power liftin and he is a good fighter so he is hard to sub him, 135 and he can push 300

str+tech=good



please listen to more of what hes saying.


I know u gotta go with what works for urself, but a lot of u guys have this notion that powerlifting routines rocket u immediatly into beef status where u cant tie ur own shoes. A lot of the posts I see are from youger kids that usually weigh a buck 60 soaking wet. And they are the ones telling others to stay away from powerlifting exercises lol. If u have a big strong base and u lift heavy ass weight and are super beefy ALREADY.... Yeah, id stay away from the powerlifting stuff for MMA purposes cuz it can lead to range of motion issues. But if ur like 17 years old interested in geting strong to compete with little to zero base core strength, U seriouslly need to stop listening to guys like Rush and get into the gym. I hate to call u out dude but this is the second thread ive seen where ur info is assbackwards!! I dont want young kids seeing ur posts and picking up poor habits. Powerlifting for beginners builds a strong core and baseline that you can take into any athletic competition. Track runners to baseball players do deadlifts and squats. Not just dinky dumbbell curl counts to 300... and running 10 miles around ur neighborhood... Every good grappler ived rolled with has a solid ass core. On the mat, they are almost impossible to push over due to the balance u pick up with powerlifting exercises as well as strength u recieve from doing them. Now that my rant is over. MY TIP, take it or leave it is: get into the gym and lift some heavy ass weight... Not obscure specialized powerlifting routines, Just hit up ur compound movement exercises like pull ups, squats, deads... and all that. If it was that easy to get TOO BEEFY and lose ur range of motion, there would be a hell of a lot more Strongmen contestants walking around.... Ull have years to look in the mirror before u can say "okay now i need to focus more on the toning and defining of my base" What the hell are u gonna "tone" or "get cut" if u are weak to begin with????

Besides Plifting exercises, U need good flexability. Im a lil over 200lbs and can still relax with my feet over my head... if ur not flexable, start working on it now...
Other than that, plyo stuff and other stuff mentioned def will help. I just am here to set the record straight about powerlifting... Should be called Core lifting, maybe the aura and stigma might chill out a bit lol
fedorwins1
1/16/08 3:34:53PM
A strong core is very important for MMA(or any sport basically). If you've never heard of pedestals check them out for core exercises, my track coaches put us through hell with them.
Rush
1/16/08 8:58:10PM

Posted by StevenSeagal


please listen to more of what hes saying.


I know u gotta go with what works for urself, but a lot of u guys have this notion that powerlifting routines rocket u immediatly into beef status where u cant tie ur own shoes. A lot of the posts I see are from youger kids that usually weigh a buck 60 soaking wet. And they are the ones telling others to stay away from powerlifting exercises lol. If u have a big strong base and u lift heavy ass weight and are super beefy ALREADY.... Yeah, id stay away from the powerlifting stuff for MMA purposes cuz it can lead to range of motion issues. But if ur like 17 years old interested in geting strong to compete with little to zero base core strength, U seriouslly need to stop listening to guys like Rush and get into the gym. I hate to call u out dude but this is the second thread ive seen where ur info is assbackwards!! I dont want young kids seeing ur posts and picking up poor habits. Powerlifting for beginners builds a strong core and baseline that you can take into any athletic competition. Track runners to baseball players do deadlifts and squats. Not just dinky dumbbell curl counts to 300... and running 10 miles around ur neighborhood... Every good grappler ived rolled with has a solid ass core. On the mat, they are almost impossible to push over due to the balance u pick up with powerlifting exercises as well as strength u recieve from doing them. Now that my rant is over. MY TIP, take it or leave it is: get into the gym and lift some heavy ass weight... Not obscure specialized powerlifting routines, Just hit up ur compound movement exercises like pull ups, squats, deads... and all that. If it was that easy to get TOO BEEFY and lose ur range of motion, there would be a hell of a lot more Strongmen contestants walking around.... Ull have years to look in the mirror before u can say "okay now i need to focus more on the toning and defining of my base" What the hell are u gonna "tone" or "get cut" if u are weak to begin with????

Besides Plifting exercises, U need good flexability. Im a lil over 200lbs and can still relax with my feet over my head... if ur not flexable, start working on it now...
Other than that, plyo stuff and other stuff mentioned def will help. I just am here to set the record straight about powerlifting... Should be called Core lifting, maybe the aura and stigma might chill out a bit lol




IMO, if people are teenagers and are not fully developed muscularly, they are potentially fucking up your growth by lifting too much when you are too young. I know a number of guys that lifted seriously in high school. They were not that strong and had problems with body pain. That shouldn't be happening with guys that haven't finished growing yet.

Seriously, if you have a problem with my advice why don't you actually rebuke it with tangible and credible evidence instead of calling me out based on your opinion. If you think something is ass backwards, then why don't you elaborate on it a bit? When I give advice, I give advice as to what has worked for me. In most cases, I tell most people to talk to nutritionists about dietary advice and doctors about injury treatment/diagnosis, etc. Professionals need to be consulted, not people behind the keyboard. A number of people that post in the forum can support me on where I stand about that.

Regarding my diet, I have had my doctors look at my blood work and cannot believe how amazing it is. In fact, verbatim, my last physical the doctor said that she has "never seen cholesterol and fatty acid levels as low as mine"

There are also a lot of people that I know that are stronger and weigh more than me, and yet cannot keep up with me in strength-stamina combination exercises. Well, gee, I must be doing something right.

I seriously think you need to read what I type, literally because you are taking a lot of it out of context. Either that or you have really poor reading comprehension.

For example, the original question was about lifting weights. I responded, basically in support of the TS's opinion about plyometrics and to repeat verbatim


Some guys get stronger with weights, but I generally don't. I have gotten stronger, faster and with less time put in; doing plyometric exercises


Then you go on about power lifting and building core strength and saying plyo will help. Then you say that I am ass backwards. Dude, I am starting to think your problem goes beyond reading comprehension.
Rush
1/16/08 9:12:28PM
Another thing I want to add to the original post is this.

Doing weight lifting exercises also does three things.

A) It makes you stronger, but in most cases only doing the exact motion that you do in the gym. It doesn't help you that much in MMA. Also, many weight lifting exercises do not work your stabilizing muscles.

B) Extra muscle is a sink for energy. You ever notice that a lot of these muscular guys gas quicker?

C) I find it difficult to work all muscle groups lifting weights. Certain areas get stronger and tighter and end up pulling on areas that are not as strong. If anyone doesn't believe me just tighten up your hamstrings or iliotibial band and see what that does to your knees.
KeNn
1/16/08 9:12:50PM
lol I bet he's a big bullky weight lifter.
Plyo's for the WIN
Rush
1/16/08 9:17:15PM

Posted by KeNn

lol I bet he's a big bullky weight lifter.
Plyo's for the WIN



Well, the bulky part is correct.

Personally, I have no problem with people weight lifiting if it works for them or they like doing it, but my opinion on the matter is in no way uneducated or without trial.
KeNn
1/16/08 9:44:21PM
lol i don't care if people lift or w/e, to each their own whatever makes you peform better.

I personally use 10lbs dumbbells and do exercises and plyo's.
cmill21
1/16/08 10:30:38PM
I think less is more. I do think you should build up your strenght obviously, but I think you should integrate some light weight high rep work into any type of work out.
StevenSeagal
1/16/08 10:46:29PM
To all that would like to follow RUSH's advice: I'm going to quote all the bull shit this kid talks about and break it down and tell u why its retarded. Then afterward if you dont agree with me then continue to follow his garbage... RUSH states his nonsense as fact which is why im correcting him. I post facts, not opinions passed as facts. Read and learn

Quote 1:
"IMO, if people are teenagers and are not fully developed muscularly, they are potentially ******* up your growth by lifting too much when you are too young."

*** This is nonsense. Keep ur swiming 30 minutes after u eat myths to urself. Please show me one study where this is true, besides some retarded phys ed instructed u had in middle school. U wont find any study cuz its false.

Quote 2:
"A) It makes you stronger, but in most cases only doing the exact motion that you do in the gym. It doesn't help you that much in MMA.

*** So now u can objectively select when u wanna use ur strength lol?? Ur off pal like usual. If some kid is a bench monster from when he was a teen up until say mid 20's, Hes is definitely going to develop an adaptation for benching and probably put up nice numbers. But how does that strength not carry over into other activities or exercises? It does. Runners that squat can only use the power they acquired by squatting for squatting purposes only??... lol fool

Quote 3:
"Also, many weight lifting exercises do not work your stabilizing muscles."

*** Many unilateral isolation movements dont, but the whole purpose of my post which I made clear is about powerlifting. Compound exercises like squats, deads, and bench MOST definitely work stabilizer muscles. The unilateral iso movements are the ones that dont work stabilizers. These are the ones I said are less important until a proper base is made.

Quote 4:
"B) Extra muscle is a sink for energy. You ever notice that a lot of these muscular guys gas quicker?"

*** If ur dumb ass actually read my post, I said those who have no solid core or base, are the ones that benefit MOST by powerlifting exercises in regards to MMA. It is true that a big huge gorilla dude will def gas faster. BUT IN THE context of what im talking about if u ****** read, states there is a longggg time between a newcomer that is looking for strength and a gorilla. You dont wake up and become a gassed out gorilla. I believe there is time in the many years it takes to become a gassed gorilla to then switch to a more toning exercise style. LIKE I SAID.

AND TO CONCLUDE:

yeah im bulky. Thats why im cutting down, due to having an established base. So keep ur faggy marathon body with ur tiny frame. Focus on getting ur un-muscled extomorph bodytype bony. So from now on, those who wanna listen to this kid go right ahead... I back my shit up with facts unless the thread asks for my opinion.

Look at the Velocity Diet thread on Day 28 and tell me I dont know what im talking about...

StevenSeagal
1/16/08 10:52:13PM

Posted by cmill21

I think less is more. I do think you should build up your strenght obviously, but I think you should integrate some light weight high rep work into any type of work out.



perfect. thats what im saying. Fastest way to get a base is doing squats, deads and bench. Once base is made Def switch ur gears to emphasize lighter weight higher rep work.

If all can agree that a solid core and base is important in MMA, please tell me 3 other main exercises that can build it better and faster besides Deads, squats, and bench??? Id love to hear this one.



bump to cmill21
KeNn
1/17/08 8:06:36AM
lol well I thinkin a sense everyone is right here, everyone has their body and likes to different things. My buddy jacks weights like nothin, I can toss him around like hoe.

but theres other guys who jack weights who'd pick me up with one hand and toss me 10ft.

Personally I don't like weight lifting, but I'm not saying I'm against it. If I ever felt the need to go do it I would, which I eventually will.
fullerene
1/17/08 9:01:05AM
Strength and power from grappling/striking (alone) > strength and power from weight lifting (alone) when it comes to applicability in MMA

Strength and power from grappling/striking plus weight lifting > Strength and power from grappling/striking (alone) when it comes to applicability in MMA


Are people arguing against weight lifting doing so because they think strength isn't important or because they think weight lifting doesn't add strength? It's definitely true that bodybuilders and even power lifters can get thrown and knocked around by less strong/muscular martial artists. But who cares? You're going to be competing against other guys who box and wrestle, not untrained weight lifters. And although you'll see a lot of training segments where it looks like all wrestlers, judoka, boxers, etc. do is wrestle and do neck bridges to build strength, "behind the curtain" most of them do focused weight lifting routines to augment the sport-specific muscle memory they are building.

It's possible to be successful without strength by having enough other physical qualities like speed, endurance and flexibility plus enough technique, but why would you go that route? Extra strength allows you to pummel better, sprawl better, lift an opponent easier, lock a choke in tighter, bend out of an armbar, etc...it just gives you more room for success when your technique or timing isn't perfect.

If you're worried about excessive hypertrophy (getting bulky muscles) that is a legitimate concern. But I wish it were as easy to do that as people make it seem. It's not like you're going to walk into the gym looking like Erkel and walk out looking like Ronnie Coleman. There's plenty of time to see how your weight and physiology is changing and adjust your routines accordingly if the results aren't heading in the right path.
StevenSeagal
1/17/08 9:25:22AM

Posted by fullerene

Strength and power from grappling/striking (alone) > strength and power from weight lifting (alone) when it comes to applicability in MMA

Strength and power from grappling/striking plus weight lifting > Strength and power from grappling/striking (alone) when it comes to applicability in MMA


Are people arguing against weight lifting doing so because they think strength isn't important or because they think weight lifting doesn't add strength? It's definitely true that bodybuilders and even power lifters can get thrown and knocked around by less strong/muscular martial artists. But who cares? You're going to be competing against other guys who box and wrestle, not untrained weight lifters. And although you'll see a lot of training segments where it looks like all wrestlers, judoka, boxers, etc. do is wrestle and do neck bridges to build strength, "behind the curtain" most of them do focused weight lifting routines to augment the sport-specific muscle memory they are building.

It's possible to be successful without strength by having enough other physical qualities like speed, endurance and flexibility plus enough technique, but why would you go that route? Extra strength allows you to pummel better, sprawl better, lift an opponent easier, lock a choke in tighter, bend out of an armbar, etc...it just gives you more room for success when your technique or timing isn't perfect.

If you're worried about excessive hypertrophy (getting bulky muscles) that is a legitimate concern. But I wish it were as easy to do that as people make it seem. It's not like you're going to walk into the gym looking like Erkel and walk out looking like Ronnie Coleman. There's plenty of time to see how your weight and physiology is changing and adjust your routines accordingly if the results aren't heading in the right path.




Not enough thank yous man. beautiful post
Rush
1/17/08 5:42:56PM

To all that would like to follow RUSH's advice: I'm going to quote all the bull shit this kid talks about and break it down and tell u why its retarded. Then afterward if you dont agree with me then continue to follow his garbage... RUSH states his nonsense as fact which is why im correcting him. I post facts, not opinions passed as facts. Read and learn


First of all, I am happy you think that I am a kid. I really take that as a complement because I am actually in my thirties. Again, I must be doing something right in my lifestyle because my youthful look and athleticism has nothing to do with genetics.

You say you post facts, but then again, you just type trash. Who are you to have any credible knowledge beyond any other person here? I think your sloppy physique speaks volumes about the “knowledge” you have about general fitness. That aside, I would also like to draw your attention the fact that you are claiming to explain why my comments are retarded, but all I read is “This is nonsense”, “Ur off pal” “It does”

I’ve got to do this in several posts to make sure it is readable.
Rush
1/17/08 5:43:52PM


Quote 1:
"IMO, if people are teenagers and are not fully developed muscularly, they are potentially ******* up your growth by lifting too much when you are too young."

*** This is nonsense. Keep ur swiming 30 minutes after u eat myths to urself. Please show me one study where this is true, besides some retarded phys ed instructed u had in middle school. U wont find any study cuz its false.



This is a typical response by a person that has a strong opinion and bluffs that someone else will not do the research. Well, in one sense I can only do as much research as my University will allow. i.e. I can only read the journals that they have subscribed to. I’m sure you get your information from medical journals [sarcasm]. Based on your responses if you had any real evidence you would have proposed it in an organized manner instead of using half-assed rhetoric based off of inflammatory comments, irrelevant comparisons and opinions.

The general consensus in the current medical literature regarding growth of people under 20 years old and younger is mixed. This is the main reason why I stated that it was my opinion (google the definition for IMO) There is some evidence for increased injury and growth plate problems in youths engaged in heavy weight lifting activities. There is also a reason why credible grappling schools do not allow joint locks for kids less than 16 yrs of age. There is also consensus in the literature that weight lifting for youths can be safe given that it is in moderation (most studies do not exceed 3 days a week and are typically only 1 or 2 days a week) with moderate weight. There is also a consensus that squats and power lifts are dangerous, exactly some of the exercises that you were advocating. In fact, talk to some physical trainers and some of them will tell adults to steer clear of squats and power lifts as well as youngsters.

Here are some abstracts (verbatim) with highlighted key parts.



Effect of different types of sports on skeletal growth in child, adolescent and young sportsmen
Arkh Anat Gistol Embriol.
Prives MG, Aleksina LA.
The work represents a theoretical review on the influence of various kinds of sport on the locomotorium. There exists a great discrepancy on how sport influences growth and synostosis in bones. The work from the Department of Normal Anatomy of the First Medical Institute, Leningrad is dedicated to the effects of various kinds of sport on the skeleton of young sportsmen and summarizes the results of the investigations performed. It is demonstrated that different kinds of sport affect differently the process of synostosis in tubular bones. The influence depends on the character of bones involving in the given kind of sport and on the character of physical loading. Thus, the process of synostosis depends not only on genetic factors, but also on social ones which include physical culture. Despite a great number of works dedicated to the study how different kinds of sport influence growth and synostosis of bones, regularities of the process remain to be clarified. Further investigations are needed.





Training issues in elite young athletes.
Curr Sports Med Rep.
Demorest RA, Landry GL.
Over the past decade, there has been a surge in the number of sports opportunities available to young athletes. Although physicians, parents, and coaches should promote healthy activity and participation, intense training at a young age can predispose exuberant young athletes to certain difficulties. Elite young athletes are at risk for overuse and growth plate injuries in certain sports. Intense training combined with inadequate nutrition may cause growth delay in elite young athletes, but this delay does not appear to affect permanent adult height. Weight training, when done properly, is safe and effective for prepubescent and pubescent athletes. Awareness of neurobehavioral development can help guide the process for appropriate sports participation. Young athletes should be closely monitored for signs of excessive physical and emotional stress so that sports participation can be fun and rewarding.





Strength training for prepubescent males: is it safe?

Am J Sports Med.
Rians CB, Weltman A, Cahill BR, Janney CA, Tippett SR, Katch FI.
This study examined the safety of one type of strength training for prepubescent males. Eighteen males (average age, 8.3 +/- 1.2 years) participated in a 45 min/session, three session/week, 14 week supervised strength training program with an attendance rate of 91.5%. Concentric work was done almost exclusively. KinCom analysis showed significant strength gain in this group (P less than 0.05), while an age, sex, and activity matched control group did not gain strength. Safety was evaluated by injury surveillance, blood pressure and heart rate monitoring, scintigraphy, and creatine phosphokinase measurement. Effects on growth and development, flexibility, and motor performance were also investigated, as these are factors with an impact on sports injury occurrence. Results showed that in the short term, supervised concentric strength training results in a low injury rate and does not adversely affect bone, muscle, or epiphyses; nor does it adversely affect growth, development, flexibility, or motor performance. As the safety question is multifaceted, this should not lead to the conclusion that strength training for prepubescents is uniformly safe. Further research is needed.






Weight training in youth-growth, maturation, and safety: an evidence-based review.

Malina RM.
OBJECTIVE: To review the effects of resistance training programs on pre- and early-pubertal youth in the context of response, potential influence on growth and maturation, and occurrence of injury. DESIGN: Evidence-based review. METHODS: Twenty-two reports dealing with experimental resistance training protocols, excluding isometric programs, in pre- and early-pubertal youth, were reviewed in the context of subject characteristics, training protocol, responses, and occurrence of injury. RESULTS: Experimental programs most often used isotonic machines and free weights, 2- and 3-day protocols, and 8- and 12-week durations, with significant improvements in muscular strength during childhood and early adolescence. Strength gains were lost during detraining. Experimental resistance training programs did not influence growth in height and weight of pre- and early-adolescent youth, and changes in estimates of body composition were variable and quite small. Only 10 studies systematically monitored injuries, and only three injuries were reported. Estimated injury rates were 0.176, 0.053, and 0.055 per 100 participant-hours in the respective programs. CONCLUSION: Experimental training protocols with weights and resistance machines and with supervision and low instructor/participant ratios are relatively safe and do not negatively impact growth and maturation of pre- and early-pubertal youth.




Now, again, before you go misinterpreting something in a subjective manner, keep in mind that these exercise protocols are at a much lower intensity and duration than those you have mentioned.
Rush
1/17/08 5:44:38PM


Quote 2:
"A) It makes you stronger, but in most cases only doing the exact motion that you do in the gym. It doesn't help you that much in MMA.

*** So now u can objectively select when u wanna use ur strength lol?? Ur off pal like usual. If some kid is a bench monster from when he was a teen up until say mid 20's, Hes is definitely going to develop an adaptation for benching and probably put up nice numbers. But how does that strength not carry over into other activities or exercises? It does. Runners that squat can only use the power they acquired by squatting for squatting purposes only??... lol fool



Have you ever done any kind of cross training at all? Obviously not. Either that or you are not very observant.

For example, in wrestling, a two leg takedown, from a muscle perspective works a multitude of muscle groups from your knees up to and including your neck. Good luck working all those muscle groups with a pure “weights” regimen. In addition, the weight distribution is totally different. Picking up large sand bags from a squat position and throwing them over your shoulder will improve you takedown ability far better and faster than squatting with a bar on your shoulders. That’s just common sense if you ask me.

Fundamentally, weight training will make you stronger. I never argued that as you claim. The point of this thread, which you seem to miss when it comes to my posts is whether it is that effective for MMA. My argument has and will be no. Why the hell do you think so many top UFC fighters don’t have regular weight regimens?
Rush
1/17/08 5:45:14PM

Quote 3:
"Also, many weight lifting exercises do not work your stabilizing muscles."

*** Many unilateral isolation movements dont, but the whole purpose of my post which I made clear is about powerlifting. Compound exercises like squats, deads, and bench MOST definitely work stabilizer muscles. The unilateral iso movements are the ones that dont work stabilizers. These are the ones I said are less important until a proper base is made.



See above response and evidence below.



Efficacy of instability resistance training.

Cowley PM, Swensen T, Sforzo GA.
The use of the stability ball as a platform for upper-body resistance training has gained much attention in recent years. However, the efficacy of such training regimens remains largely unstudied. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the influence of platform (unstable vs. stable, stability ball vs. flat bench) on strength and work capacity during barbell chest-press exercise. We also sought to determine the effects of a barbell chest-press training program performed on a stability ball or flat bench on strength, work capacity, and abdominal power. Fourteen young women (20 - 23 yr) performed a 1 repetition maximum (1RM) barbell chest-press and the YMCA bench press test (YBT) on a stability ball and flat bench, as well as two field tests measuring abdominal power. The women were then assigned to perform 3 weeks of barbell chest-press training on a stability ball (SB group) or flat bench (FB group); assignment was balanced based on 1RM strength. Barbell chest-press training included 3 sets of 3 - 5 repetitions at loads greater or equal to 85 % of 1RM. The 1RM barbell chest-press, YBT, front abdominal power test (FAPT), and side abdominal power test (SAPT) were used to evaluate changes in strength, work capacity, and abdominal power, respectively. The chest-press tests were completed on both platforms following the training program. Platform (stability ball vs. flat bench) had no influence on strength, but work capacity was initially 12 % lower on the stability ball compared to the flat bench. In response to training, both groups significantly increased strength and work capacity, and there were no group differences. The increase in 1RM strength was 15 % and 16 % on the stability ball and flat bench for the SB group, and 16 % and 19 % for the FB group, respectively. The increase in work capacity was 32 % and 13 % on the stability ball and flat bench for the SB group, and 27 % and 26 % for the FB group, respectively. Both groups significantly improved on the FAPT, and there were no group differences. Performance on the FAPT improved by 5 % for the SB group, and 22 % for the FB group. Performance on the SAPT did not change. Barbell chest-press training performed on either the stability ball or flat bench increased strength and work capacity, and these changes were transferable across platforms. Thus, the stability ball is an effective platform for barbell chest-press training in untrained women over a short duration.




Also, if you have any experience with dumbbell bench press vs. barbell bench press you would know that there is a weight differential.

I can do 200-230lbs barbell, but only 160lbs dumbbell. (last time I checked over a year ago) Either is not bad considering I only weigh just over 160lbs
Rush
1/17/08 5:46:02PM



Quote 4:
"B) Extra muscle is a sink for energy. You ever notice that a lot of these muscular guys gas quicker?"

*** If ur dumb ass actually read my post, I said those who have no solid core or base, are the ones that benefit MOST by powerlifting exercises in regards to MMA. It is true that a big huge gorilla dude will def gas faster. BUT IN THE context of what im talking about if u ****** read, states there is a longggg time between a newcomer that is looking for strength and a gorilla. You dont wake up and become a gassed out gorilla. I believe there is time in the many years it takes to become a gassed gorilla to then switch to a more toning exercise style. LIKE I SAID.



Again, you are busy trying to attack my statement and not providing anything relevant to the original question. The question was whether weight training is beneficial to MMA. I provided an answer and it had nothing to do with your post. In fact, I initially answered before your first post and in my follow up made no reference to your comments.

With respect to my comment, you don’t need to be a huge bodybuilder to have muscles that will drain your energy. Muscular endurance is not best developed lifting weights.
Rush
1/17/08 5:47:13PM

yeah im bulky. Thats why im cutting down, due to having an established base. So keep ur faggy marathon body with ur tiny frame. Focus on getting ur un-muscled extomorph bodytype bony. So from now on, those who wanna listen to this kid go right ahead... I back my shit up with facts unless the thread asks for my opinion.

Look at the Velocity Diet thread on Day 28 and tell me I dont know what im talking about...




WTF is an extomorph? Another example that you do not know what you are taking about. Oh you think I am an ectomorph? Sorry to disappoint you, but my body fits the description of a mesomorph a lot more accurately.

Another thing, dieting is all about maintenance, so your results at the end of 28 days are not what matters. What matters is that can you maintain that 4+ months after the fact.



All in all, I give advice based on my experience and expertise. I also present a number of caveats in my many pieces of advice that you do not present. I have also stated my experience level in the thread mentioned above, which you have not. Also, I state my advice as opinion and let the reader choose whether to follow mine or some other’s advice, without going out of my way to discredit another poster’s advice unless I feel that it is downright dangerous.

Again, you continue to call me a kid, yet you type as if you are a pubescent teenager texting on a phone. In my opinion you appear to be an inflammatory punk that has some online aggression problem toward people that do not believe what you type. You blatantly attack me just as much or more than my statements, which provides further evidence that you are completely talking out of your ass. Maybe this aggression is based on a lack of testosterone as evidenced by your lack of body hair.
Rush
1/17/08 5:51:08PM

Posted by StevenSeagal


If all can agree that a solid core and base is important in MMA, please tell me 3 other main exercises that can build it better and faster besides Deads, squats, and bench??? Id love to hear this one.






With respect to building a mobile and strong core, which I feel is more crucial for MMA than just being strong. I recommend:

Kettlebell swings
Swiss ball calisthenics (i.e. doing plyo pushups off a swiss ball)
Yoga
StevenSeagal
1/17/08 6:50:29PM
its really not even worth taking more time to respond lol. All I can say is keep doing what ur doing. people know ur retarded cuz ive gotten PM's saying yeah RUSH doesn't know what hes talking about. What ever u wanna follow is great. long as others know ur shit is retarded thats fine with me.
Rush
1/17/08 6:59:50PM

Posted by StevenSeagal

people know ur retarded cuz ive gotten PM's saying yeah RUSH doesn't know what hes talking about. .







This speaks volumes about your integrity. Not only do I believe it is a lie, but I know that any regular poster on this board would feel comfortable posting a rebuttal to my opinion to my face.
KeNn
1/17/08 8:44:42PM
I have respect for both of you guys, but you both took it to far.

Steven took personal attacks, and Rush wow...lol thats alot of research bud.

Your bother arguing, and you both are right. You both just have totally different opinions, and both your opinions are strong. So theres no lee- way to the other one.

Personally I BELIEVE theres 3 styles of fighters, technique, strenghth, and a combination.
example: Gonzaga (strength)
BJ Penn (Technique)
and GSP (both)

their all really good at different things, but their all great fighters.
My examples may not be the best, but you may get a whif of what i'm getting at.
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