Am i the only one that thinks BJ will win?

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teddythetuna
11/7/08 10:50:34PM
BJ is a different kind of beast in the lightweight division. i think at welterweight the extra weight and the fact that GSP WILL be able to go 5 non stop rounds will play a big factor. GSP has a black belt in BJJ so i dont think he will get submitted plus his standup looked amazing against fitch. I think GSP can and will take it to the ground and GNP Penn for most of the fight. and if his standup is as good as it was with fitch i dont think penn will have an advantage there either.
WrestlersAssassin
11/8/08 1:44:36AM
A focused BJ is unbeatable
Bobby-B-Bonkers
11/8/08 6:12:05AM
OK... who is better?

standup - BJ
bjj - BJ
wrestling - even
clinch - even

*unless GSP plans on another boring 5 round dec, I give it 2 BJ hands down!!!
Rush
11/8/08 9:41:26AM

Posted by Bobby-B-Bonkers

OK... who is better?

standup - BJ
bjj - BJ
wrestling - even
clinch - even

*unless GSP plans on another boring 5 round dec, I give it 2 BJ hands down!!!









Watch their first fight. GSP was the better fighter there and has improved much more than BJ has since then. The only thing that BJ has improved is his conditioning and it is still not going to match GSP's. Their first fight should have been a UD for GSP. That's not subjective either. Watch their fight again, it's pretty obvious.

BJ does not have the better clinch and he certainly does not have better wrestling. You will not see BJ take GSP down or have an effective clinch. He will be doing nothing but trying to keep his ass off the mat.

BJ has better boxing and submissions. I see him winning either by eye poke or catching GSP in a sub.

Personally, I htink Alves is a tougher fight for GSP than BJ.
prozacnation1978
11/8/08 10:07:28AM
i like them both alot but bj cardio is still in question but no way gsp submits bj

it will go 5 rounds with gsp winning
breakdown5
11/8/08 11:40:21AM
I think that the only area GSP has the edge is his wrestling. He won their first fight via takedowns and conditioning. If Penn is in shape and his stellar takedown defense holds up against Georges, I don't see how GSP wins this one. If he does win it will be by a decision again because he isn't going to finish Penn.

WAR PENN
AxeMurderer97
11/8/08 3:14:52PM
Bj can't hang with GSP, imo. GSP has greatly improved since their last fight. Penn has poor cardio at the Welterweight division, and couldn't put away Matt Hughes, something that Georges did with ease.

Stand up - Probably a close call, Gsp has very underrated stand up, and is extremely technical with combos. Penn is a great boxer, but i don't think his boxing will come into play too much in this fight.

Ground - More than likely going to give this to BJ, Bj is extremely flexible, and has great submissions. Also, Bj is hard to get on his back anyway, which will be a tough test for Georges.
Georges ground game has evolved greatly ever since his first title fight with Matt, he's no slouch either...but slight edge to Bj

Wrestling - Georges has this hands down, anyone who can tool Kos in his own game proves that Georges wrestling is superb. Bj's isnt nearly as explosive as Georges, Bj has good grappling and is hard to take down, but i see Geroges taking him down. So, edge Georges on the Wrestling.

Cardio - How anyone can argue that Bj has better cardio than Georges is out of their mind. Bj tends to gas in the 3rd round at WW, Wheres Georges can continue to push the pace and still be very effective in the later rounds (see Fitch fight)
Georges takes the cardio easily.

All in All, i think Gsp will be too aggressive and dominant for Bj to handle. Bj is no joke, but he truly belongs in the LW division, i think it's a mistake for him to come up and face GSP, however that was said when he came up to challenge Hughes and beat him.
But like i said, Gsp has evolved too much from their last fight, he's one of the most technical and smart fighters on earth today.

Gsp wins this by TKO in the late 3rd or 4th, imo
EvenFlow
11/9/08 7:12:57PM
Everyones gonna be surprised when BJ wins even though they shouldnt be, sure GSP is a different fighter but to me BJ is the one whos gotten better overall and is likely to tap him out. But GSP is on my parlay asuming its 50/50 on this pick. Id rather see Thiago get the belt instead of this inter-belt meshing fights but best of luck to both of them.
CwB
11/9/08 7:37:00PM

Posted by Bobby-B-Bonkers

OK... who is better?

standup - BJ
bjj - BJ
wrestling - even
clinch - even

*unless GSP plans on another boring 5 round dec, I give it 2 BJ hands down!!!



if you are referring to gsp vs fitch (wait you have to be since fitch was his only 5 round war) i dont know how you can consider that boring at all...

i would say
standup - even (but gsp uses kicks so slight edge to gsp)
bjj - bj
wrestling - gsp
cardio - GsP (gsp has proven he can go 5 rounds in ww division bj hasnt yet)

but when it comes down to it i think bj takes this fight
MMA4EVER
11/11/08 4:35:37AM
GSP all the way I dont se anyone beating this guy 4 a while maybe alves might give him a run but no way bj should stick to lightweight he is the ruler of that division
Panochador
11/11/08 11:41:01AM
I can't believe all the GSP nut-huggery going on here.

Listen, GSP is the most well rounded fighter there is right now, that's his strength, but that's also his biggest problem. He's a jack-of-all-trades, master of none.

GSP is a servicable striker, nothing more. His stand up gets WAY too much undeserved respect. His jiu-jitsu is just as mediocre, and his wrestling is good.

BJ's stand up is very good, he can stand with anybody at LW or WW. His jiu-jitsu is easily top 5 in the world at any weight class. His wrestling is also pretty good.

GSP : Striking - C
jiu-jitsu - C
Wrestling - B+

BJ : Striking - B+
jiu-jitsu - A++
wrestling - B-

There is no way in hell GSP is capable of knocking out BJ Penn (he doesn't have ANY power in his hands), and there is no way in hell he will ever submit BJ.

BJ is capable of knocking out GSP (hell, MATT SERRA knocked him out for christ sake), and he could submit his ass with relative ease if the opportunity presents itself.

The only way BJ loses this fight is if GSP can take him down and execute some brutal lay and pray for 5 straight rounds.

BJ will win this fight. GSP is simply not skilled enough in any one area to pose a significant threat to him. BJ is much better on the feet and much better on the ground, PERIOD.

Penn by RNC round 4.



bzwez
11/11/08 12:47:43PM

Posted by WrestlersAssassin

A focused BJ is unbeatable



You are correct on many levels sir.
MMA4EVER
11/11/08 8:15:30PM
no doubt Penn Is an animal And an unstoppable force in the lightweight division but thats where he is great at no way he beats st pierre in the 2nd fight he couldnt do it in the 1st gsp by desicion besides i dont see penn dominating the welterweight division like the lightweight division but no doubt he isnt afraid to take on anyone it would be great if he could fight wanderlai silva
jack
11/11/08 8:43:47PM
I honestly don't know why GSP is even taking the fight. He has way more to lose than BJ. If GSP loses, he loses his belt but if BJ loses he only gets another another mark in the loss column. Doesn't make much since to me. Either way it's going to be a hell of a fight.
jack
11/11/08 8:51:31PM
Where did you learn how to grade? BJ doesn't have any power in his hands? Did you just start watching MMA? You rated BJ's striking better than GSP's...I am sorry...BJ finally showed that he figured out how to use his jab against Sherk and all of a sudden he is an excellent striker? I must have missed the last couple of years of MMA.
Talk about nuthugging....
Pookie
11/11/08 10:20:29PM

Posted by bzwez


Posted by WrestlersAssassin

A focused BJ is unbeatable



You are correct on many levels sir.



Panochador
11/12/08 8:58:38AM

Posted by jack

Where did you learn how to grade? BJ doesn't have any power in his hands? Did you just start watching MMA? You rated BJ's striking better than GSP's...I am sorry...BJ finally showed that he figured out how to use his jab against Sherk and all of a sudden he is an excellent striker? I must have missed the last couple of years of MMA.
Talk about nuthugging....



Learn to read and comprehend English. I didn't say BJ has no power, I said GSP isn't going to knock out BJ - because HE (meaning GSP) has no power in his hands. When has GSP ever shown that he has anything more than mediocre stand up? Answer - NEVER.

BJ Penn IS a better striker than GSP. That is a stone cold fact.

Just becuase you've only seen BJ fight Sean Sherk doesn't mean the rest of us are ignorant to the fact that BJ has proven over the years that he can stand up with ANYBODY.
jack
11/12/08 7:34:23PM
I love it when someone trys to use a type-o (that means an unintentional mistake) against someone...makes me laugh. So let me clarify...GSP has plenty of power in his hands (and legs). I don't know how many GSP fights you have watched...judging by your unfounded and unproven "points" it's obvious that you haven't seen any of them. The only thing that BJ has is an unclipped thumb nail that he uses on his jab to cut open his oppenants under their eyes so that they can't see. WATCH just about every fight that BJ has been in and you will see what kind of dirty fighter BJ is. THAT is a "stone cold" fact. Why don't you use a little thing called evidence or actual fights as points to back up what you say instead of using a grammical error (whoops there's another one!) as trying to prove what you wrote.
RedCloud
11/12/08 8:18:11PM
This Fight is ABSOLUTELY 50/50 !!
There is no way to decide the Victory here.
These are the two greatest fighters in the world!

I know BJ Fans and GSP fans are like Bloods and Crips, so there is no coming to an agreement. But we can be civil and say that this will be the most intense fight in our lifetime.
BLESSINGS!

higdon10
11/12/08 8:37:03PM

Posted by jack

Where did you learn how to grade? BJ doesn't have any power in his hands? Did you just start watching MMA? You rated BJ's striking better than GSP's...I am sorry...BJ finally showed that he figured out how to use his jab against Sherk and all of a sudden he is an excellent striker? I must have missed the last couple of years of MMA.
Talk about nuthugging....



I also think that BJ's striking is better than St. Pierre's. I dont see why you have flame somebody's decent opinion. My friend.
Panochador
11/13/08 3:43:00PM

Posted by jack

I love it when someone trys to use a type-o (that means an unintentional mistake) against someone...makes me laugh. So let me clarify...GSP has plenty of power in his hands (and legs). I don't know how many GSP fights you have watched...judging by your unfounded and unproven "points" it's obvious that you haven't seen any of them. The only thing that BJ has is an unclipped thumb nail that he uses on his jab to cut open his oppenants under their eyes so that they can't see. WATCH just about every fight that BJ has been in and you will see what kind of dirty fighter BJ is. THAT is a "stone cold" fact. Why don't you use a little thing called evidence or actual fights as points to back up what you say instead of using a grammical error (whoops there's another one!) as trying to prove what you wrote.



Unfounded? You sir are fooling yourself.

Look, Jack. The simple fact of the matter is that, with the exception of his head kick TKO versus Matt Hughes, all of his (T)KO's were via ground and pound. Thus proving my point that GSP has little power in his hands.

Example: Fitch was ripe for the picking, and GSP couldn't put him away, no matter how hard he tried. A guy with good stand up would've taken Fitch out, but GSP's hands didn't have enough power to get the job done.

I'm not saying GSP isn't a good fighter, I'm just saying that GSP doesn't have the power to one-punch anybody (which he never has done). GSP knows that, that's why he uses his wrestling to get guys down to the ground, and once he gets them down, he unrelentingly pounds on them until the ref calls the fight. Nothing wrong with that.

BJ Penn is one of the most respected fighters in the world, and you're sitting here calling the man a dirty fighter? Pathetic.

Stop hating on BJ Penn, Jack.
jgtribbett
11/13/08 7:24:41PM
i think that if GSP isnt over his mental problem then bj is gonna kick his ass.. but i am thinking that GSP has come full cirle and has his mental game str8. GSP by GNP RD4
Rush
11/13/08 7:35:01PM

Posted by Panochador

Look, Jack. The simple fact of the matter is that, with the exception of his head kick TKO versus Matt Hughes, all of his (T)KO's were via ground and pound. Thus proving my point that GSP has little power in his hands.

Example: Fitch was ripe for the picking, and GSP couldn't put him away, no matter how hard he tried. A guy with good stand up would've taken Fitch out, but GSP's hands didn't have enough power to get the job done.



I don't think you can make a statement that GSP has little power in his hands based on this "evidence".

Why don't I think you can use that to validate that statement? Because one doesn't have to look far to find a fighter with tons of power in his hands, yet has only one TKO since 2004. Fedor.

Whether you KO a fighter with pure stand up strikes is a complex equation with multiple variables such as striking power, the recipient's chin, how clean the strike landed, where it landed, the ref, when in the fight the majority of striking took place, the intensity of the fight, etc.
Rush
11/13/08 7:50:19PM

Posted by Panochador

I can't believe all the GSP nut-huggery going on here.

GSP : Striking - C
jiu-jitsu - C
Wrestling - B+

BJ : Striking - B+
jiu-jitsu - A++
wrestling - B-






On what criteria are these grades based? B+ in wrestling? and then you give BJ a B- in wrestling? Based on what? Because the guy is super flexible (or double jointed)? I haven't seen as many takedowns by BJ as GSP and GSP is fighting much stronger wrestlers.

I am betting with 99% certainty that BJ will not take GSP down and will not be able to keep from being taken down.

As for the other grades you gave GSP, I am curious as to how your rate the BJJ skills of Hughes, Serra, or Miller?
higdon10
11/13/08 7:54:17PM

Posted by Rush
I am betting with 99% certainty that BJ will not take GSP down and will not be able to keep from being taken down.



I agree with BJ not taking GSP down, but Penn's TD defense is some of the best in the game. No matter where this fight ends up its gonna be interesting.
Rush
11/13/08 8:01:32PM

Posted by higdon10


Posted by Rush
I am betting with 99% certainty that BJ will not take GSP down and will not be able to keep from being taken down.



I agree with BJ not taking GSP down, but Penn's TD defense is some of the best in the game. No matter where this fight ends up its gonna be interesting.




GSP did it before and his wresting is better now than it was a couple years ago.

BJ's TD defense is really only good on the fence and even then he couldn't always stop GSP from taking him down. If Georges gets a clean shoot in the middle of the ring (which he has been doing a lot of lately) BJ will be going down.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think Alves is a much more dangerous fighter than BJ (against GSP).
Wolfenstein
11/13/08 8:06:12PM
GSP has B+ wrestling? I must have missed that when he took down NCAA Division 1 champ Josh Koscheck over and over again seemingly at will.
higdon10
11/13/08 8:07:45PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by higdon10


Posted by Rush
I am betting with 99% certainty that BJ will not take GSP down and will not be able to keep from being taken down.



I agree with BJ not taking GSP down, but Penn's TD defense is some of the best in the game. No matter where this fight ends up its gonna be interesting.




GSP did it before and his wresting is better now than it was a couple years ago.

BJ's TD defense is really only good on the fence and even then he couldn't always stop GSP from taking him down. If Georges gets a clean shoot in the middle of the ring (which he has been doing a lot of lately) BJ will be going down.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think Alves is a much more dangerous fighter than BJ (against GSP).



GSP taking BJ down is a real possibility, his wrestling is on another level. But Penn is pretty good at defending the take down. I think that GSP is superior to Alves everywhere, as Penn has better jits and comparable stand up, leading me to say that Penn is the more dangerous opponent for GSP.
RedCloud
11/14/08 2:05:01PM
So Manyposts saying Bj cant do this and GSP cant do that.
Come UFC 94, Someone is going to eat humble pie.
AchillesHeel
11/14/08 2:23:10PM

Posted by Panochador

I can't believe all the GSP nut-huggery going on here.

Listen, GSP is the most well rounded fighter there is right now, that's his strength, but that's also his biggest problem. He's a jack-of-all-trades, master of none.


I disagree. GSP is the best wrestler in his weight class, bar none, and one of the top 3-5 wrestlers in the entire sport.

GSP
Striking: B+
- Versatility:
Wrestling: A
- Ground n' Pound: A
- Takedowns: A
- Takedown defense: A
Jiu-Jitsu: B
- Submissions: B-
- Submission defense: B+
Cardio: A
Chin: B+
Confidence: B+
Adaptability: B+

Baby J
Striking: B+
Wrestling: C+
- Takedowns: C+
- Ground n' Pound: B
Jiu-Jitsu: A
- Takedown defense: A
- Submissions: A
- Submission defense: A
Cardio: hard to know, but in the past he's been a C to a B, my guess is he'll come into this match in good shape, so I'll give him a B; still behind GSP, but not enough to determine the outcome of the match by itself
Chin: B-
Confidence: A-
Adaptability: B+
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