thiago silva should be ranked higher than machida! machida=overrated

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mikek32293
7/9/08 2:41:53PM
ok.. hear me out

they both have 13-0 records except thiago finishes his fights...10 tkos 2 submisions and 1 decisions!! machidas got 8 ******* desicions!!

and i know ur probably gonna say well thiago hasnt faced any competion.. but he does have wins over houston alexnder and James irvin both in which he finshed the fights. machida has wins over franklin who is a middlewieght penn who is a light wieght and was a very close fight..

his only signifacant light heavy wieght fights are against tito(over the hill, not top ten), soko (maybe top ten but still very unproven), and nakumara.

im not saying thiago has faced better competition but he finishes fights! and machida still hasnt proven to me that he could beat top calliaber light heavies. in my opinion he would lose to chuck, rampage, hendo, thiago, wandy, anderson, shogun, and verra.
wolfman
7/9/08 2:44:48PM
He finished Irvin?! More like Irvin's knee finished himself....Oh, and yeah Thiago Silva hasn't fought and beaten anyone of note. Hell, he almost got finished by Antonio Mendes in his last fight. He's the one who is overrated.

Irvin also had him back against the cage with the first punch he threw...Silva has potential, but he has a long way to go....
grappler0000
7/9/08 2:46:51PM
When the entire 205 division is ducking Thiago, give me a call
juanez13
7/9/08 2:51:01PM
If i was you, i wouldnt even include Irvin in the list of opponents Thiago has beat, Irvin was schooling him on the feet until he blew out his knee, to me that didnt count as a win for him.....

that leaves Thiago with a win over Houston Alexander, which Irvin finished in 8 seconds.

Finishing fights isnt a way to measure how good a fighter is, is like saying because Guillard finishes opponents and Sherk doesnt, that means Guillard would beat Sherk. The fact is that Machida hasnt lost a single round in any of his fights, and has faced the better competition than Thiago. Doesnt mean Machida is the more skilled fighter, but he is the more proven out of the 2, therefore he is ranked above thiago, as he should be.
mikek32293
7/9/08 2:54:25PM
DOES BEATING TITO ORTIZ AND SOKO MAKE U A TOP FIVE LIGHT HEAVY WIEGHT IN THE WORLD!?!?
Rush
7/9/08 3:00:30PM

Posted by mikek32293

DOES BEATING TITO ORTIZ AND SOKO MAKE U A TOP FIVE LIGHT HEAVY WIEGHT IN THE WORLD!?!?



How about

Tito Ortiz
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
Kazuhiro Nakamura
Vernon White
B.J. Penn
Rich Franklin

??????


The bottom line is that he has beaten a variety of fighters at different skill levels and has done so in a domiant fashion.
The_Metal_Maniac
7/9/08 3:02:01PM

Posted by mikek32293

ok.. hear me out

they both have 13-0 records except thiago finishes his fights...10 tkos 2 submisions and 1 decisions!! machidas got 8 ******* desicions!!

and i know ur probably gonna say well thiago hasnt faced any competion.. but he does have wins over houston alexnder and James irvin both in which he finshed the fights. machida has wins over franklin who is a middlewieght penn who is a light wieght and was a very close fight..

his only signifacant light heavy wieght fights are against tito(over the hill, not top ten), soko (maybe top ten but still very unproven), and nakumara.

im not saying thiago has faced better competition but he finishes fights! and machida still hasnt proven to me that he could beat top calliaber light heavies. in my opinion he would lose to chuck, rampage, hendo, thiago, wandy, anderson, shogun, and verra.




Franklin I believe is a natural LHW. Anyways that's besides the point I love how people knock Machida. That's his fighting style every single person on earth knows that by now. He fights smart. If he catches someone then he finishes. His fighting style is more of a counter striker. I think everyone just wants a fight to be two guys bull rushing one another swinging blindly until someone scores a 40 second knock out. MMA is an art, they all know how Machida fights. Find someone smart enough to adapt to his fighting style and overcome it. He along with Rampage deserve the next title opportunity. For the sake of argument put him in there against Tiago Silva and see what happens. By the way I am a huge Machida fan lol can you tell?
mikek32293
7/9/08 3:08:24PM
How about

Tito Ortiz
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
Kazuhiro Nakamura
Vernon White
B.J. Penn
Rich Franklin

??????


The bottom line is that he has beaten a variety of fighters at different skill levels and has done so in a domiant fashion.


Dominant fashion

u call hitting your a oppenent a couple times and running away dominant fashion?? maybe thiago hasnt beaten any worthy oppennts but atleast he has put almost every opponent he faced away (thats donminant fashion).
Twenty20Dollars
7/9/08 3:12:50PM
yeah go thiago silva!
grappler0000
7/9/08 3:15:57PM

Posted by mikek32293

dominant fashion

do u call putting hitting your oppent a couple times and running away dominant fashion???? maybe thiago hasnt face any top calliaber opponents but atleast he puts them away (btw thats dominanting fashion)



You can laugh if you'd like, but Machida not only dominated, but finished Sokoudjou. Soukoudjou was a top 10 fighter...something Thiago has yet to face.
The_Metal_Maniac
7/9/08 3:28:37PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by mikek32293

dominant fashion

do u call putting hitting your oppent a couple times and running away dominant fashion???? maybe thiago hasnt face any top calliaber opponents but atleast he puts them away (btw thats dominanting fashion)



You can laugh if you'd like, but Machida not only dominated, but finished Sokoudjou. Soukoudjou was a top 10 fighter...something Thiago has yet to face.



Rush
7/9/08 3:29:07PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by mikek32293

dominant fashion

do u call putting hitting your oppent a couple times and running away dominant fashion???? maybe thiago hasnt face any top calliaber opponents but atleast he puts them away (btw thats dominanting fashion)



You can laugh if you'd like, but Machida not only dominated, but finished Sokoudjou. Soukoudjou was a top 10 fighter...something Thiago has yet to face.



He must not understand what dominant is.

The fact that Machida is able to hit/knockout, take down and submit his opponents and they cannot do it to him is what makes him dominant.

Thiago has come close to being put away himself, how is that considered dominant?
Bowen50
7/9/08 3:44:43PM
Machida is a better fighter that Thiago Silva. I'm not a fan of Machidas style but he does dominate his opponents. Thiago is very good in his own right but hes not as good as Machida.
SmileR
7/9/08 4:01:50PM

Posted by wolfman

He finished Irvin?! More like Irvin's knee finished himself....Oh, and yeah Thiago Silva hasn't fought and beaten anyone of note. Hell, he almost got finished by Antonio Mendes in his last fight. He's the one who is overrated.

Irvin also had him back against the cage with the first punch he threw...Silva has potential, but he has a long way to go....



Irvin would win a re-mach in my opinion. He had no answer to Irvins attack the whole fight and if it wasn't for his knee going he would have finished him.
I do like watching him more than I like watching Machida but only because he's a aggressive fighter.
If he was to fight the same caliber fighters as Machida I'v got very little doubt his record would have a few losses on it.
I say to answer your question we pin down Joe Silva and force him to make Machida Vs Silva!
That way we'll have the definitive answer!
holt8081
7/9/08 4:01:51PM
They are both bad ass fighters and I enjoy watching them fight. this argument will end if and when they fight each other, anybody can get knocked out when hit the problem with machida is no one can hit him.
JimiMak
7/9/08 4:23:15PM
Machida is SO dominant he makes his opponents look like children that can't even touch him. Comparing Thiago, at this point in their careers, isn't even laughable. Machida is the best LHW in the world right now. Line your guys up, he's about to beat them all.
Rush
7/9/08 4:24:37PM

Posted by JimiMak

Machida is SO dominant he makes his opponents look like children that can't even touch him. Comparing Thiago, at this point in their careers, isn't even laughable. Machida is the best LHW in the world right now. Line your guys up, he's about to beat them all.






Never thought I would use this smiley on one of your posts Jimi, but I can't argue with that.


edit - I'd prop you but I gotta spread the love
teddythetuna
7/9/08 4:36:58PM
I defend Machida on every one of these threads because i hate stupid remarks like "Machida runs away" or "Machida=overrated". This is a guy that fights anybody they put in front of him and he makes the people he fights look like amateurs. Soko knocked out Arona and Nogueira. So his punching power is just as good as Silva's and we seen what happened to Soko. I think Machida right now would walk right through Silva. And i also really like Silva but i dont think he is quite on the same level as Machida. Once again Machida WILL be LHW champ.
EON
7/9/08 5:19:48PM

Posted by mikek32293

ok.. hear me out

they both have 13-0 records except thiago finishes his fights...10 tkos 2 submisions and 1 decisions!! machidas got 8 ******* desicions!!

and i know ur probably gonna say well thiago hasnt faced any competion.. but he does have wins over houston alexnder and James irvin both in which he finshed the fights. machida has wins over franklin who is a middlewieght penn who is a light wieght and was a very close fight..

his only signifacant light heavy wieght fights are against tito(over the hill, not top ten), soko (maybe top ten but still very unproven), and nakumara.

im not saying thiago has faced better competition but he finishes fights! and machida still hasnt proven to me that he could beat top calliaber light heavies. in my opinion he would lose to chuck, rampage, hendo, thiago, wandy, anderson, shogun, and verra.



Purge
7/9/08 5:20:46PM
Machida would beat Thiago's ass.
Franklinfan47
7/9/08 5:32:39PM

Posted by Purge

Machida would beat Thiago's ass.

eyeforeigneye
7/9/08 5:38:24PM
realistically they should fight each other next, both of them have looked stellar (well except Silva against Mendes) but i wanna see more from both of them first. instead we'll probably get some shit like Thiago vs Jardine
zephead
7/9/08 5:46:02PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by mikek32293

DOES BEATING TITO ORTIZ AND SOKO MAKE U A TOP FIVE LIGHT HEAVY WIEGHT IN THE WORLD!?!?



How about

Tito Ortiz
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
Kazuhiro Nakamura
Vernon White
B.J. Penn
Rich Franklin

??????


The bottom line is that he has beaten a variety of fighters at different skill levels and has done so in a domiant fashion.




I have to question this:

Tito - In Tito's last 5 fights he had a draw with Rashad. He beat a over-the-hill Shamrock twice. He beat Forrest and Vitor who many beleive Tito lost

Soko - Not a Top 10 at all. Had 5 fights at the time

Vernon White - He's 26-32. enough said

BJ Penn - He's the 155 lb champ. The fight went to a decision. That's a hell of alot more about BJ then Machida.

Rich Franklin - A 185 lb. fighter

Nakumaro - He's game. He's 11-8 with 7 decisions.


If I told you that was Chuck's record and fans were saying he deserves a title shot, would you agree? Or would you say he needs to fight better comp?
Shoppe
7/9/08 6:13:11PM

Posted by zephead

I have to question this:

Tito - In Tito's last 5 fights he had a draw with Rashad. He beat a over-the-hill Shamrock twice. He beat Forrest and Vitor who many beleive Tito lost

Soko - Not a Top 10 at all. Had 5 fights at the time

Vernon White - He's 26-32. enough said

BJ Penn - He's the 155 lb champ. The fight went to a decision. That's a hell of alot more about BJ then Machida.

Rich Franklin - A 185 lb. fighter

Nakumaro - He's game. He's 11-8 with 7 decisions.


If I told you that was Chuck's record and fans were saying he deserves a title shot, would you agree? Or would you say he needs to fight better comp?



It's not as simple as, this is his record, does he deserve a title shot?

Rampage got a title shot after a split decision win over Lindland and a win over Eastman. Two fighters who are now fighting at 185.

You have to look at the fighters record, his fights and how other fighters are doing compared to him. And right now, no fighter is doing better than Lyoto.
mkiv9secsupra
7/9/08 6:24:47PM

Posted by Shoppe


Posted by zephead

I have to question this:

Tito - In Tito's last 5 fights he had a draw with Rashad. He beat a over-the-hill Shamrock twice. He beat Forrest and Vitor who many beleive Tito lost

Soko - Not a Top 10 at all. Had 5 fights at the time

Vernon White - He's 26-32. enough said

BJ Penn - He's the 155 lb champ. The fight went to a decision. That's a hell of alot more about BJ then Machida.

Rich Franklin - A 185 lb. fighter

Nakumaro - He's game. He's 11-8 with 7 decisions.


If I told you that was Chuck's record and fans were saying he deserves a title shot, would you agree? Or would you say he needs to fight better comp?



It's not as simple as, this is his record, does he deserve a title shot?

Rampage got a title shot after a split decision win over Lindland and a win over Eastman. Two fighters who are now fighting at 185.

You have to look at the fighters record, his fights and how other fighters are doing compared to him. And right now, no fighter is doing better than Lyoto.



Rampage got a shot so quick because there was some serious money in Rampage vs Liddell 2 not because everyone else didnt deserve it yet
Rush
7/9/08 6:27:04PM

Posted by zephead

I have to question this:

Tito - In Tito's last 5 fights he had a draw with Rashad. He beat a over-the-hill Shamrock twice. He beat Forrest and Vitor who many beleive Tito lost

Soko - Not a Top 10 at all. Had 5 fights at the time

Vernon White - He's 26-32. enough said

BJ Penn - He's the 155 lb champ. The fight went to a decision. That's a hell of alot more about BJ then Machida.

Rich Franklin - A 185 lb. fighter

Nakumaro - He's game. He's 11-8 with 7 decisions.


If I told you that was Chuck's record and fans were saying he deserves a title shot, would you agree? Or would you say he needs to fight better comp?



I didn't think this thread was about Machida deserving a title shot or not, but rather if he should be ranked above Thiago Silva.

As to some of your comments about weight classes, I was under the impression that both BJ and Franklin were the same weight as Machida when they fought him. Vernon white was more like 24-27 when fought Machida, but his record needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I tend not to take Pancrase records too seriously. Nakamura is not the best fighter out there, but his losses are to top fighters so it is hard to criticize his record too much. And Tito, well despite the fact I agree that he is not top 10 material any more, he is still a challange for lower tier fighters. i.e. IMO he was a decent gatekeeper for top 10 fighters.

I see we differ in our definitions of being dominant, but I don't think I have advocated Machida for a title shot. I wouldn't complain if he got one, because I can't think of too many LHWs (if any) that deserve one more than him right now.
Shoppe
7/9/08 6:29:19PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Rampage got a shot so quick because there was some serious money in Rampage vs Liddell 2 not because everyone else didnt deserve it yet



Which other fighters deserved a title shoot during that time?
fedorwins1
7/9/08 6:38:33PM

Posted by grappler0000

When the entire 205 division is ducking Thiago, give me a call



Damn, must spread the love.
jimmypockets
7/9/08 6:42:58PM
This is ridiculous. Thiago Silva is a good up and coming fighter but to even suggest that Machida wouldn't complete control and beat him is laughable. I like both fighters but to even suggest this makes me question your judgement. Machida is technically sound in amost every way. Thiago Silva is not. He is very talented but he still lacks any wins over opponents that are established. Houston Alexander doens't count *sorry*
NatedawgThaM
7/9/08 6:48:01PM
Although I do agree Machida is overrated to a certain extent, more from his huge diehard fans. Their is NO WAY Thiago should be ranked higher then Machida. Machida is undefeated and hasn't lost a round his whole entire MMA career. Thiago's biggest win was over Houston. You do the math, Machida alreayd beat Soko which cancels that big win off plus Machida beat Tito who's still very marketable.

Machida should be creeping up on the top 5 and should get in with a win over one of the other top 5. Thiago IMHO is still creeping into people's top 10. And this coming from a hardcore Thiago fan.
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