What do theses great fighters have in common ???

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the_01
8/14/08 9:19:49AM

Chuck Liddell
Anderson Silva
Lyoto Machida
Kenney Florian
George St. Peirre

What do these dynamic fighters have in common ? You dont have to study their history ( but I personnaly did ), just concentrate on their fighting style.

Lets recap what they do best:
1- great standing up
2- They move alot
3- great couter attacks
4- mentally strong
5- Tactical fighters
5- Least fighters to get hurt (protect themselves at all costs, and inflict lots of damage )

The common thing is that all the above fighters began their Martial arts life with KARATE at a young age. From then, they moved to kickboxing, Jiu Jitsu and wrestling to become mma fighters. Karate builds an all around fighter, which makes other disciplines easy to learn, it also puts great concentration on the mental part of the game .
All the above fighters revolve around Karate in their fighting styles.
The problem is, it takes a long time to learn the art of Karate, this is why few fighters perfect this sport, and fight as well as the above athletes, so its better to start young.
To conclude, I encourage everyone to take on Karate or teach it to their kids, it will benifit you in every aspect of life.
Thats my openion, and thank you for taking the time to read this post.

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wiggum
8/14/08 11:50:18AM
i think you could say that alot of mma fighters started in karate....hell ive got friends that have been in karate...then when all those fighters and my friends turned 10 they moved on to other things.....karate in our generation was popularized by movies, who as a kid didnt want to learn karate....and parents thought it was ok cuz it was safe....but to says its a foundation for a fighter is ridicolous, i know of two fighters that still rep karate: machida and ed ratcliff......gsp switched over to wrestling and boxing when he was like 12...iceman wrestled his whole life and switched over to kickboxing when he around 13.....machida did karate his whole life, yes, but he also wrestled and studied ju jitsu in his pre-teens as well....anderson silva did karate till he was like 8 than switched to thai boxing.....kenny florian gave up karate way before his teens then did high school sports before even thinking about bjj and mma....what im gettting is that its the person not the background that makes the fighter....you cant just mention 5 people to make a point...forrest griffin has no karate background, rampage doesnt, w silva doesnt penn doesnt fedor doesnt big nog doesnt...theres 5 people to counter your 5....you look at 80% of mma fighters and they dont have a karate background...i tell you who does tho, jeff joslin, hes the son of legendary karate expert and a canadian champion....heard of him? whats he done?..if you want to bring up good backgrounds that make strong, tactical, tought, athelitic fighters, then you could make an argument for wrestling too since more champions have a background in wrestling than any other....i hate to say that to, cuz wrestlers annoy the s*** out of me....karate is just something parents throw theyre kids into so that they can have mommy and daddy time every once in awhile, its the person themselves that make the fighter
postman
8/14/08 12:17:34PM
I don't think Anderson started with Karate I thought he started in Mauy Thai. I have heard others say that he did Karate, there is an article in MMA World Wide that hes says he trained in Mauy Thai. I very well could be mistaken.
The_Ho_Bag
8/14/08 12:34:47PM
lmao im a huge chuck fan but he is not technical hes so sloppy but hes a great counter fighter and is good off his back foot
dannyfrank
8/14/08 1:55:56PM

Posted by The_Ho_Bag

lmao im a huge chuck fan but he is not technical hes so sloppy but hes a great counter fighter and is good off his back foot



he didnt say "technical" he said "tactical"

i thought he said that too at first
kaduey
8/14/08 2:50:13PM
Who hasn't been in karate though? That's a pretty weak hypothesis.
jocka
8/14/08 4:06:02PM
I don t think it matter what sport/martial art you do as a kid as long as you get involve in something physical at a young age. It could be karate, wreslting, taekwondo even like me basket ball, you just have to devolop your mind/body to learn moves and technics, once that done your body and mind are use to learn.

I started in basket ball at a very young age and i ve able excel at every sport/martial art i tried.

You do have a point by saying that you should invole your kids in something physical as soon as possible but i disagree that its as to be karate.
Pookie
8/14/08 4:46:37PM
Georges st pierre isnt a counter puncher...
balack_o-bama
8/14/08 5:08:03PM
Gsp does not have a strong mental game.
Aether
8/14/08 6:24:21PM
Having taken Karate for a long time I can say honestly that it is not a very useful martial art when it comes to MMA. Any training will give you an advantage over the average joe, but karate realistically doesn't apply very well to MMA. Machida is the only one of those fighters who really obviously uses karate, even if others have trained in it. Karate is mostly about avoidance and neutralizing your opponent and Machida is the only one who really employs that style.

I think karate like people have said, is just a really popular martial art because of movies like karate kid. Little kids who want to learn to fight like the tough guys in the movies learn karate. I personally went from karate (about 7-8 years) to tae-kwon do (2-3 years) to judo (about 2 years) then I stopped doing much of anything for a couple years and started training again about 2 years ago trying to focus on general MMA training with emphasis on jiu-jitsu and sambo.

I think karate is just sort of a first step in combat sports evolution that the majority of fighters probably follow. I'd be willing to bet there's dozens even hundreds of other fighters who started in karate as little kids but really don't consider it to be part of their modern training. Karate and wrestling are probably the 2 most common sports for kids to start in that have some sort of relationship to MMA.
The_Ho_Bag
8/14/08 11:25:01PM

Posted by dannyfrank


Posted by The_Ho_Bag

lmao im a huge chuck fan but he is not technical hes so sloppy but hes a great counter fighter and is good off his back foot



he didnt say "technical" he said "tactical"

i thought he said that too at first



thank you =) aha
JBatch
8/15/08 12:03:15AM

Posted by balack_o-bama

Gsp does not have a strong mental game.



GSP faltered mentally twice. Once i facing his hero, I can not fault a 22 year old in becomming star struck. His second I was a case athletes commonly suffer from its "Overconfidentiatis' its symptoms taking oppnents lightly and performing at a substandard level due to lack of preparation.

GSP is a strong guy physically and mentally. He has great game plans and is a cerebral fighters. Never say GSP is weak again please.
JohnnyNapalm
8/15/08 4:12:17AM
Bad hair-cuts.

They all have bad hair-cuts.
emfleek
8/15/08 11:06:07AM
...and stupid nicknames.
The_Ho_Bag
8/15/08 4:42:36PM

Posted by emfleek

...and stupid nicknames.



the iceman is the best one =)
copcopps
8/15/08 4:44:02PM
You do know Anderson Silva's bald right?
Rush
8/15/08 5:41:41PM

Posted by the_01

The common thing is that all the above fighters began their Martial arts life with KARATE at a young age. From then, they moved to kickboxing, Jiu Jitsu and wrestling to become mma fighters. Karate builds an all around fighter, which makes other disciplines easy to learn, it also puts great concentration on the mental part of the game .
All the above fighters revolve around Karate in their fighting styles.
The problem is, it takes a long time to learn the art of Karate, this is why few fighters perfect this sport, and fight as well as the above athletes, so its better to start young.
To conclude, I encourage everyone to take on Karate or teach it to their kids, it will benifit you in every aspect of life.
Thats my openion, and thank you for taking the time to read this post.




Jeff Joslin can be added to your list of karate foundations MMA fighters.

However, there are a few comments I would like to add to the above quotation.

To say these fighters' fighting styles revolve around karate is not correct IMO, with maybe Machida being the closest to an exception. Chuck, Anderson, Georges and Kenny have fighting styles not very reminiscent to karate. Karate striking in MMA looks very similar to Harold Howard's (actually I think it is an ideal example) in UFC 3.

Another thing. To make a bold statement such as "karate is great for building a strong MMA base" you also have to consider the fighters that are in MMA, with karate backgrounds, that are not great fighters. I am sure you would find as many or more than the converse.

All martial arts (or any skill) takes an amazing amount of time to master. I don't want to use a black belt as a benchmark, but I don't have much choice... that being said, most karateka can attain their black belt in times much shorter than the majority of other martial arts. I know my example is more like comparing apples and oranges, but my point is that all martial arts take a lot of time to master and karate is probably on the short end of the list.

Karate does not help you shorten the learning curve for learning other martial arts. In fact, it is my opinion that it lengthens it, especially for grappling arts. The stances and weight distributions are very different for karate compared to judo, jujutsu, aikido, wresting, etc. I have personally witnessed people with dan levels in karate have more difficulties learning grappling martial arts than people that have never trained before. Why? Because previous training creates habits that are hard to break.

As far as building a strong mental state. Again, I find karateka to be some of the most weak minded martial artists out there. With the exception of the hardcore traditional karateka, I would say that other martial arts (at the very least) produce as mentally strong (and likely much stronger) fighters than karate does.

As far as karate benefiting people. From a physical standpoint I agree. Anything that gets people, especially kids, off the couch is a good thing. However, in my experience most of the biggest martial arts assholes I have known were karateka again save for the hardcore traditionalists. That's not to say that I have not met other martial arts assholes, but 8/10 times (in my own experience) they are karateka.

Finally I would like to conclude in saying that the only thing I agree with you is that people that want to excel in something should start from a young age. I would be willing to bet that the real reason for the MMA fighters being really successful (with exceptions of course, but I am talking in general) in what they do are the ones that have training in anything from an early age. There is something to be said for the simple minds of kids when learning. They are so open minded and excel at doing, rather than thinking. My sensei always tells us to be like kids and just copy. Kids move more naturally because they haven't been influenced by bad habits from people around them.
JohnnyNapalm
8/16/08 4:24:45AM

Posted by copcopps

You do know Anderson Silva's bald right?



Yeah, and did you know he's black too? Seriously...
JohnnyNapalm
8/16/08 4:43:51AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by the_01

The common thing is that all the above fighters began their Martial arts life with KARATE at a young age. From then, they moved to kickboxing, Jiu Jitsu and wrestling to become mma fighters. Karate builds an all around fighter, which makes other disciplines easy to learn, it also puts great concentration on the mental part of the game .
All the above fighters revolve around Karate in their fighting styles.
The problem is, it takes a long time to learn the art of Karate, this is why few fighters perfect this sport, and fight as well as the above athletes, so its better to start young.
To conclude, I encourage everyone to take on Karate or teach it to their kids, it will benifit you in every aspect of life.
Thats my openion, and thank you for taking the time to read this post.




Jeff Joslin can be added to your list of karate foundations MMA fighters.

However, there are a few comments I would like to add to the above quotation.

To say these fighters' fighting styles revolve around karate is not correct IMO, with maybe Machida being the closest to an exception. Chuck, Anderson, Georges and Kenny have fighting styles not very reminiscent to karate. Karate striking in MMA looks very similar to Harold Howard's (actually I think it is an ideal example) in UFC 3.

Another thing. To make a bold statement such as "karate is great for building a strong MMA base" you also have to consider the fighters that are in MMA, with karate backgrounds, that are not great fighters. I am sure you would find as many or more than the converse.

All martial arts (or any skill) takes an amazing amount of time to master. I don't want to use a black belt as a benchmark, but I don't have much choice... that being said, most karateka can attain their black belt in times much shorter than the majority of other martial arts. I know my example is more like comparing apples and oranges, but my point is that all martial arts take a lot of time to master and karate is probably on the short end of the list.

Karate does not help you shorten the learning curve for learning other martial arts. In fact, it is my opinion that it lengthens it, especially for grappling arts. The stances and weight distributions are very different for karate compared to judo, jujutsu, aikido, wresting, etc. I have personally witnessed people with dan levels in karate have more difficulties learning grappling martial arts than people that have never trained before. Why? Because previous training creates habits that are hard to break.

As far as building a strong mental state. Again, I find karateka to be some of the most weak minded martial artists out there. With the exception of the hardcore traditional karateka, I would say that other martial arts (at the very least) produce as mentally strong (and likely much stronger) fighters than karate does.

As far as karate benefiting people. From a physical standpoint I agree. Anything that gets people, especially kids, off the couch is a good thing. However, in my experience most of the biggest martial arts assholes I have known were karateka again save for the hardcore traditionalists. That's not to say that I have not met other martial arts assholes, but 8/10 times (in my own experience) they are karateka.

Finally I would like to conclude in saying that the only thing I agree with you is that people that want to excel in something should start from a young age. I would be willing to bet that the real reason for the MMA fighters being really successful (with exceptions of course, but I am talking in general) in what they do are the ones that have training in anything from an early age. There is something to be said for the simple minds of kids when learning. They are so open minded and excel at doing, rather than thinking. My sensei always tells us to be like kids and just copy. Kids move more naturally because they haven't been influenced by bad habits from people around them.



Holy crap. Generalize much?

For starters, ever hear of Tae Kwon Do? I think Tae Kwon Do schools out number 7-11 stores in most neighborhoods 2-1. WTF (World Tae Kwon Do Federation not "what the f**k", then again, kinda the same...) is the "all kicks, all the time" martial art org. that hands out black belts quicker than they can make them.

As for azzholes, doesn't make sense that any one martial art has a monopoly on them. Like is there some sort of weird scientology like thing going in karate dojo's that produces a plethora of a-holes? Why the hell would you even mention that as your personal experience? What does that do to support your statement? But it made me laugh, so thanks.

Weak minds aplenty in Karate? Dude, from what I've gathered in your whacky post I'd say there are better people that should be left to determine that.

Funny stuff tho.
Rush
8/16/08 8:34:49AM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm

Holy crap. Generalize much?

For starters, ever hear of Tae Kwon Do? I think Tae Kwon Do schools out number 7-11 stores in most neighborhoods 2-1. WTF (World Tae Kwon Do Federation not "what the f**k", then again, kinda the same...) is the "all kicks, all the time" martial art org. that hands out black belts quicker than they can make them.

As for azzholes, doesn't make sense that any one martial art has a monopoly on them. Like is there some sort of weird scientology like thing going in karate dojo's that produces a plethora of a-holes? Why the hell would you even mention that as your personal experience? What does that do to support your statement? But it made me laugh, so thanks.

Weak minds aplenty in Karate? Dude, from what I've gathered in your whacky post I'd say there are better people that should be left to determine that.

Funny stuff tho.



1) Read my post again because you obviously misunderstood nearly all the points I made. I would re-state everything for you if I felt that it could be stated more clearly, but it's about as clear as it can be.

2) If you don't value one's experience as a way from which they've formed their opinions, what do you value?

3) My statement about weak minds, again, was based off of experience.

Let me give you some advice. If you don't agree with something someone has posted because you don't like their opinion, try countering with some facts or your own experience (on the subject) because saying that "there are better people to determine that" is merely stating an opinion based off an assumption about me. You also never stated who these better people are. I'm sure you know as little about them as you do me.
the_01
8/16/08 11:16:46AM
Chill out guys,
First of all, thanks for everyone for participatine, we all gained much knowledge from your personal expereinces and opinons, thanks again.
Second, this forum and other forums are here for eveyone to post their personal expereinces, openions or any facts that can be of benifit to the subject.
So, lets please respect each others posts and replys.
Thank you
JohnnyNapalm
8/16/08 12:20:06PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by JohnnyNapalm

Holy crap. Generalize much?

For starters, ever hear of Tae Kwon Do? I think Tae Kwon Do schools out number 7-11 stores in most neighborhoods 2-1. WTF (World Tae Kwon Do Federation not "what the f**k", then again, kinda the same...) is the "all kicks, all the time" martial art org. that hands out black belts quicker than they can make them.

As for azzholes, doesn't make sense that any one martial art has a monopoly on them. Like is there some sort of weird scientology like thing going in karate dojo's that produces a plethora of a-holes? Why the hell would you even mention that as your personal experience? What does that do to support your statement? But it made me laugh, so thanks.

Weak minds aplenty in Karate? Dude, from what I've gathered in your whacky post I'd say there are better people that should be left to determine that.

Funny stuff tho.



1) Read my post again because you obviously misunderstood nearly all the points I made. I would re-state everything for you if I felt that it could be stated more clearly, but it's about as clear as it can be.

2) If you don't value one's experience as a way from which they've formed their opinions, what do you value?

3) My statement about weak minds, again, was based off of experience.

Let me give you some advice. If you don't agree with something someone has posted because you don't like their opinion, try countering with some facts or your own experience (on the subject) because saying that "there are better people to determine that" is merely stating an opinion based off an assumption about me. You also never stated who these better people are. I'm sure you know as little about them as you do me.



Let me give you some advice, don't stereotype people based you're own and obviously extremely limited experience and then post it on an open forum like it means something.

You just degraded people in general who participate in a martial art based on ignorance. COMMON SENSE tells anybody that has lived outside a bubble for a few years that where there are vast numbers of people participating/belonging to any group/organization etc. that you will find ALL TYPES - the good, the bad, the ugly, the strong minded, weak minded, azzholes, salt of the earth, etc. Open your eyes and your mind, dude.

I trained in a few different fighting arts over many years plus worked with large groups of people for over 20 years - it's all the same, all the different types of people are there. Maybe if you were in a cult, prison, or some other extreme group then maybe you'd find an exception, otherwise it's not likely.

Knowledge is power. Peace
Pookie
8/16/08 1:00:12PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm


Let me give you some advice, don't stereotype people based you're own and obviously extremely limited experience and then post it on an open forum like it means something.




Anyone else catch how incredibly ironic this statement is?
The_Ho_Bag
8/16/08 1:26:57PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by JohnnyNapalm


Let me give you some advice, don't stereotype people based you're own and obviously extremely limited experience and then post it on an open forum like it means something.




Anyone else catch how incredibly ironic this statement is?



you so smart pookie =) if i could prop u i would but i just did before so i cant =)
Rush
8/16/08 1:53:11PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm

Let me give you some advice, don't stereotype people based you're own and obviously extremely limited experience and then post it on an open forum like it means something.




Tell me where I stereotyped. Please. I simply stated an observation and worded as such.

A stereotype would be: that I met one (or some) karateka and he was an ass and I concluded that all karateka were asses.

That is totally different than saying: in my own experience 8/10 martial arts asses I have met/known are karateka.

If you can't understand that, I can't help it.



Posted by JohnnyNapalm

You just degraded people in general who participate in a martial art based on ignorance. COMMON SENSE tells anybody that has lived outside a bubble for a few years that where there are vast numbers of people participating/belonging to any group/organization etc. that you will find ALL TYPES - the good, the bad, the ugly, the strong minded, weak minded, azzholes, salt of the earth, etc. Open your eyes and your mind, dude.




You claim it to be ignorance and I flat out wrote in my initial post that it was based on experience. Ignorance and experience are antonyms. Again, if you took the time to read my post instead of jumping to your own conclusions you would realize that.


It appears that you took offence to my post. That's fine by me. Reality doesn't always please me. But I ask that please read my posts carefully before you jump to your own conclusions about what was written. If you have had different experiences, then why didn't you share them as such? You can look at ever post in my history and I have never had the arrogance to say someone is ignorant because of their opinion based on their experiences. That would be absurd.


They say knowledge is power, but wisdom is greater than knowledge and wisdom is attained by experience.

JohnnyNapalm
8/17/08 1:10:51AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by JohnnyNapalm

Let me give you some advice, don't stereotype people based you're own and obviously extremely limited experience and then post it on an open forum like it means something.




Tell me where I stereotyped. Please. I simply stated an observation and worded as such.

A stereotype would be: that I met one (or some) karateka and he was an ass and I concluded that all karateka were asses.

That is totally different than saying: in my own experience 8/10 martial arts asses I have met/known are karateka.

If you can't understand that, I can't help it.



Posted by JohnnyNapalm

You just degraded people in general who participate in a martial art based on ignorance. COMMON SENSE tells anybody that has lived outside a bubble for a few years that where there are vast numbers of people participating/belonging to any group/organization etc. that you will find ALL TYPES - the good, the bad, the ugly, the strong minded, weak minded, azzholes, salt of the earth, etc. Open your eyes and your mind, dude.




You claim it to be ignorance and I flat out wrote in my initial post that it was based on experience. Ignorance and experience are antonyms. Again, if you took the time to read my post instead of jumping to your own conclusions you would realize that.


It appears that you took offence to my post. That's fine by me. Reality doesn't always please me. But I ask that please read my posts carefully before you jump to your own conclusions about what was written. If you have had different experiences, then why didn't you share them as such? You can look at ever post in my history and I have never had the arrogance to say someone is ignorant because of their opinion based on their experiences. That would be absurd.


They say knowledge is power, but wisdom is greater than knowledge and wisdom is attained by experience.




Dude, get over it. You made generalizations about 1 particular art based on limited experience. For example, to state that in your opinion karate produces more weak minded individuals than does most other martial arts is just plain ridiculous. Before asking me for evidence about my opinions, how about providing something to support that statement?

You obviously don't get it. You don't bash an entire art and it's participants because of your personal experience. If you had presented it like you did some serious research and gave specifics like "of the 50 karate schools I visited across the US I found the following..." Then maybe your somewhat "extreme" opinion would be worth something on the subject. Otherwise it ain't jack.

Again you can't simply expect people to sit back and believe crap like you stated generally applies to some several thousand participants in a world wide sport/art. I've met and trained with some karateka from eastern Europe and Israel - I'd love to see you explain that weak minded BS to them
Mr_Dead_Sexy
8/17/08 4:17:55AM
Hm. E-arguments.


BionicIng
8/17/08 7:09:18AM
yea
ummm
karate and all around
hmm
wher is is the grappling and mat skills
and umm
striking defense
and ummm
anything in the clinch
not to knock karate because i studied under one of the very best in the country but its pretty lacking as far as building an all around core
Rush
8/17/08 9:28:53AM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm

Dude, get over it. You made generalizations about 1 particular art based on limited experience. For example, to state that in your opinion karate produces more weak minded individuals than does most other martial arts is just plain ridiculous. Before asking me for evidence about my opinions, how about providing something to support that statement?

You obviously don't get it. You don't bash an entire art and it's participants because of your personal experience. If you had presented it like you did some serious research and gave specifics like "of the 50 karate schools I visited across the US I found the following..." Then maybe your somewhat "extreme" opinion would be worth something on the subject. Otherwise it ain't jack.

Again you can't simply expect people to sit back and believe crap like you stated generally applies to some several thousand participants in a world wide sport/art. I've met and trained with some karateka from eastern Europe and Israel - I'd love to see you explain that weak minded BS to them



You tell me to provide evidence for my experience and then turn around and just tell me "I am wrong" then continue to say my opinion means jack, and then tell me to get over it. The irony is uncanny.

You need to first learn some reading comprehension because you keep insisting that I am generalizing my opinion. Regarding the issues that you are getting your panties in a bunch, you keep insisting that I have generalized yet I have clearly limited it to my own observations and even stated the exception.

It appears that my comments have rubbed you the wrong way. My experiences really happened and I am sorry it's been many years since, but I:

-can't provide audio evidence of karateka that have called my sensei's house threatening to come and get him (for no reason)
-can't provide you with a police report that was filed by my sensei
-can't provide you with video of karateka coming to our dojo and calling out my sensei for no apparent reason
-can't provide you with video evidence of the 22yr old (still in highschool) karateka that kept trying to pick up grade 9 girls
-can't provide you with evidence of the group of guys at a restaurant (in Victoria BC) that acted like a bunch of douche bags. I made a comment after that they reminded me of karateka back home and the people I was with all told me they operated a karate school in the city.
-can't provide video of the karateka that picked a fight with an usher in a theatre because he was drunk
-can't provide evidence how the karate school that would sucker young kids into their black belt program promising to teach them techniques of a supernatural nature.

these were just examples I pulled off the top of my head. I have trained in over a half-dozen different martial arts well over that last decade so I feel that I have a fairly well rounded sample size from which to judge.

If evidence is what you require for every opinion you read on an internet forum, them maybe you should reconsider logging in or take your own advice and "get over it"
Rush
8/17/08 9:30:35AM

Posted by BionicIng

not to knock karate because i studied under one of the very best in the country but its pretty lacking as far as building an all around core




Don't say that because JohnnyNapalm will start whining about you providing evidence for your experience.
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