Team Wolfslair fires back at Rivera and camp following incident at UFC 127

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FastKnockout
3/1/11 12:37:56PM
Michael Bisping's team has issued a statement in response to the controversy following his UFC 127 fight with Jorge Rivera.

The team believes Rivera's cornerman was the primary catalyst for the bad blood that boiled over before, during and after the fight, which took place this past Sunday at Acer Arena in Sydney.

The statement comes one day after UFC president Dana White told MMA Fighting that Bisping is to be disciplined for his behavior following the co-main event fight.

LINK
machodog76
3/1/11 1:34:20PM
"He's criticized me and ridiculed me for being English," said the 31-year-old fighter, who also blogged about the fight on his official website, Bisping.tv. "He's being racist – let's be honest. If he was making fun of me because I was Jewish or black, there would be an uproar. But because I'm English, that's OK. He's out of order, and I'm going to make him pay for it.

I didn't know there was an "English" race.
ChokeUout
3/1/11 1:47:53PM

Posted by machodog76

"He's criticized me and ridiculed me for being English," said the 31-year-old fighter, who also blogged about the fight on his official website, Bisping.tv. "He's being racist – let's be honest. If he was making fun of me because I was Jewish or black, there would be an uproar. But because I'm English, that's OK. He's out of order, and I'm going to make him pay for it.

I didn't know there was an "English" race.



I was thinking the EXACT smae thing when he said it before the fight. Being Black is a race. Jewish isn't a race, but it's a religon, which is pretty much just as bad. Being from England is neither. I think that's just Bisping's "sensitive emotional" side coming out.


My problem with this article is this: THey are saying Jorge initiated the trash talk, and NOBODY disputes that. What it seems like to me is that they say the trash talk forced Bisping into acting like the child he did during and after the fight. I mean, are they saying "bisping shouldn't be held accountable for the (alleged) intentional knee, the spitting and saying "go home loser" seconds after the fight becuase of Rivera's camps trash talk? If so, then this just makes them look worse.

What i think is that Rivera's camp got under Bisping's skin, and Bisping acted like an immature child as a result. He's a "sensitive, emotional" guy who threw a temper tantrum. Nobody but Bisping should be held accountable for that.


BTW...can anyone tell me what Rivera said about Bisping's family? I'm having trouble finding that as well
FlashyG
3/1/11 2:12:54PM
I agree with you both that "English" isn't a race, but making fun of someone for their nationality is still pretty offensive. Americans, Canadians, Brazilians, you take a shot at someones nationality and theres a strong chance you'll get an emotional response.

Thats not to excuse Bispings actions, he clearly acted like a child and deserves whatever punishment he gets, he probably even deserved a DQ.

Rivera got into Bispings head but his trash talk got into his own as well. Instead of taking the DQ win, he HAD to back up all the talking he did before the fight and consequently took a loss because of it.



SmileR
3/1/11 2:15:32PM

Posted by machodog76

"He's criticized me and ridiculed me for being English," said the 31-year-old fighter, who also blogged about the fight on his official website, Bisping.tv. "He's being racist – let's be honest. If he was making fun of me because I was Jewish or black, there would be an uproar. But because I'm English, that's OK. He's out of order, and I'm going to make him pay for it.

I didn't know there was an "English" race.



If this is a serious post you come off way worse than Bisping. You can class discrimination against a nation as racist.
My mother is English an I'm 50% English and Riveras comments pissed me off. Bisping has a point and morons arguing its ok to post videos discriminating against a whole country to sell a fight need to be banned.

Bisping is right, if he was from a different county or it was aimed at his religion there would be outcry.
sparky
3/1/11 2:32:20PM

Posted by SmileR


Posted by machodog76

"He's criticized me and ridiculed me for being English," said the 31-year-old fighter, who also blogged about the fight on his official website, Bisping.tv. "He's being racist – let's be honest. If he was making fun of me because I was Jewish or black, there would be an uproar. But because I'm English, that's OK. He's out of order, and I'm going to make him pay for it.

I didn't know there was an "English" race.



If this is a serious post you come off way worse than Bisping. You can class discrimination against a nation as racist.
My mother is English an I'm 50% English and Riveras comments pissed me off. Bisping has a point and morons arguing its ok to post videos discriminating against a whole country to sell a fight need to be banned.

Bisping is right, if he was from a different county or it was aimed at his religion there would be outcry.



RhythmAndStyle
3/1/11 2:34:57PM

Posted by SmileR


Posted by machodog76

"He's criticized me and ridiculed me for being English," said the 31-year-old fighter, who also blogged about the fight on his official website, Bisping.tv. "He's being racist – let's be honest. If he was making fun of me because I was Jewish or black, there would be an uproar. But because I'm English, that's OK. He's out of order, and I'm going to make him pay for it.

I didn't know there was an "English" race.



If this is a serious post you come off way worse than Bisping. You can class discrimination against a nation as racist.
My mother is English an I'm 50% English and Riveras comments pissed me off. Bisping has a point and morons arguing its ok to post videos discriminating against a whole country to sell a fight need to be banned.

Bisping is right, if he was from a different county or it was aimed at his religion there would be outcry.



100% agreed..ppl from the States think it's ok to hate on England..but guess what..that's also being racist..so stop wit all the Bisping deserve what he has comin to him..cuz if it's like that than Rivera deserved to get kneed in the head n lose the match...
Franklinfan47
3/1/11 2:41:17PM

Posted by SmileR


Posted by machodog76

"He's criticized me and ridiculed me for being English," said the 31-year-old fighter, who also blogged about the fight on his official website, Bisping.tv. "He's being racist – let's be honest. If he was making fun of me because I was Jewish or black, there would be an uproar. But because I'm English, that's OK. He's out of order, and I'm going to make him pay for it.

I didn't know there was an "English" race.



If this is a serious post you come off way worse than Bisping. You can class discrimination against a nation as racist.
My mother is English an I'm 50% English and Riveras comments pissed me off. Bisping has a point and morons arguing its ok to post videos discriminating against a whole country to sell a fight need to be banned.

Bisping is right, if he was from a different county or it was aimed at his religion there would be outcry.



Thank you. Its nice to see there are other people on this site who understand what racism is. Discrimination based on nationality= still racism people!
FastKnockout
3/1/11 2:46:26PM
I think the media and Bisping fans are letting him off the leash a little too early. They blame the illegal knee on "the heat of the moment" and Bisping's "emotions", yet when Henderson knocked Bisping out and followed up with a punch, media and Bisping fans went nuts. Calling Henderson tasteless and unprofessional. Yet, he probably wouldn't have done it if Bisping wouldn't have talked thrash all through TUF. Also, Bisping mentions Rivera being "racist" towards Brits, yet on TUF Bisping took a shot at Americans on more than one occasion. Bisping gives it, but can't take it, which is pathetic.
Gladiator
3/1/11 4:50:43PM

Posted by ChokeUout


Posted by machodog76

BTW...can anyone tell me what Rivera said about Bisping's family? I'm having trouble finding that as well



I haven't come across anything rivera said against bisping's family directly. However, Bisping's post-fight accusation was something along the lines of "you brought my family into this" which i believe is a reference to this video around the 1:50 mark where he claims that his son's friends at school saw the youtube videos and ridiculed him for it.
thepitbull00
3/1/11 6:38:12PM

Posted by FastKnockout

I think the media and Bisping fans are letting him off the leash a little too early. They blame the illegal knee on "the heat of the moment" and Bisping's "emotions", yet when Henderson knocked Bisping out and followed up with a punch, media and Bisping fans went nuts. Calling Henderson tasteless and unprofessional. Yet, he probably wouldn't have done it if Bisping wouldn't have talked thrash all through TUF. Also, Bisping mentions Rivera being "racist" towards Brits, yet on TUF Bisping took a shot at Americans on more than one occasion. Bisping gives it, but can't take it, which is pathetic.




If I remember correctly Bisping himself said that he would have done the same thng to Henderson if he had talked that much leading up to the fight. So Bisping expected what he got because he knew he talked a lot of smack but Rivera expected to get off scot free? Plus I think his trash talk was much worse than Bisping/Henderson.
cmill21
3/1/11 6:42:31PM
People get made fun of for many things. Being fat, skinny, bald, talking with a lisp, etc. All that happened is that Bisping was made fun of. Being English isn't a race. Nationalism is an important part to every country and I don't condone insulting someone for where they are from it's ridiculous IMO to call what happened here racist. Racism is 100% restricted to RACE! That's like saying a person who hates christians are anti-Semite's, it's clear you don't know the meaning of the word racist.
BlueSkiesBurn
3/1/11 6:53:18PM
Bisping called Rivera a "f*cking f*ggot."

Bisping, if he's a racist, you're a homophobe and a bigot. End of story.

Why aren't Bisping, his camp, or anyone else on this thread as concerned that there is a video of Bisping using derogatory hate speech that his kid, wife, and the world can see?
Gladiator
3/1/11 7:31:54PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Bisping called Rivera a "f*cking f*ggot."

Bisping, if he's a racist, you're a homophobe and a bigot. End of story.

Why aren't Bisping, his camp, or anyone else on this thread as concerned that there is a video of Bisping using derogatory hate speech that his kid, wife, and the world can see?



Agreed. Not everyone on this thread is defending bisping. My post was merely to shed light on a possibility of why bisping felt his family was involved. Idk for sure what bisping was referring to but i dont feel, in his mind at least, he was making baseless accusations. It seems to me tho that bisping is quick to throw around the term racist. Didnt he falsely accuse Demarques Johnson of being a racist on TUF? And i dont buy into the "double-standard" argument either. People aren't bothered by Jorge Rivera's antics just because Bisping is English, its because Bisping is generally considered to be an asshole. Im not really sure how fans would react to an opponent making similar videos against a more accepted english personality, like ross pearson perhaps, but Id bet they wouldnt have near as much support as rivera did against bisping.
GSPCanada
3/1/11 7:38:20PM
where is the racism guys??? I FINALLY watched all the videos, he is making fun of bisping, he isn't making fun of english people, in his last vid he said english people have a tough resiliency to win a war. mimicking a guys accents and dressing up like an old english person isn't racist. I've been a minority my whole life and this is not racism, it is things u see kids say to each other. I personally find chael's remarks to ed about portuguese being a step above pig latin far more offensive and you didn't see anderson spitting on him

there is nothing bout bisping's family. jorge said 80% of koalas have chlamydia and bispings girlfriend is australian. whether or not this was meant as a shot at bispings girlfriend is unknown (in my opinion it is a long shot but I don't think we'll know unless rivera says he did)

I don't think the wolfslair should be backing up Bisping right now, in my opinion the second worst cheap shot i've ever seen (and it is a very close second to paul daley) is the shots rampage took on wanderlei when the ref stopped the fight, he just so happens to be bisping's teammate. and although I don't know if the illegal knee was on purpose or not but I sure think kongo threw an intentional knee on al-turk below the belt, another one of bispings teammates. right now wolfslair camp has a pretty tarnished look to me

and I agree with the post above. If you don't want to look bad maybe u shouldn't be calling someone homophobic names and maybe you shouldn't be getting mad at a deaf guy for not being able to hear a bell or a whistle.
BlueSkiesBurn
3/1/11 8:09:44PM
I'm actually going to touch on something that hasn't come up, that I'm aware of, in all of this. I'm little shocked that it hasn't so I'm going to be the one to do it.


Bisping opened the door for this when he brought the "my kids and my family can see these videos" argument in to play.

Yes, they can see them Michael, but guess what, they can also see your actions on video forever, too.

One of the toughest and most difficult lessons for parents to teach their children is that they can't control what other people say about them. Mean or otherwise. It's a very difficult thing to try and explain to your kids. Often times you're doing this after they've been bullied and are in tears because they don't understand what they did to deserve it. Parents try, as best they can, to tell their children not to worry about what other people say and that they just need to continue to treat people with dignity and respect. Kill them with kindness is usually the motherly advice. We tell them eventually everyone else will see that they're just being an asshole as long as you keep your calm and continue to treat everyone with respect.

Bisping missed out on teaching his child a valuable lesson. He was more concerned with what his kid and family saw RIVERA say/do, than he was with what his kid and family saw HIM do.

Now, his child can find internet footage of his dad calling another man a "f*cking f*ggot," celebrating after he'd injured a man illegally, and spitting on another human being.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I would rather my kid see videos of Rivera trashing me than have my children and family see videos of me using homophobic slurs, spitting on people, and celebrating after I had cheated (unintentional or otherwise).

I'm more concerned with how my children view ME as a man than I am them seeing other people creating videos of me. Teaching my children to comport themselves with dignity, humility, and respect are the most important lessons I can pass along as a parent and, Michael, you failed teaching that lesson with FLYING colors.

You're the one who brought what your family and children could see on the internet in to play, but not once have you recognized the fact that your child and family saw you do every single one of these things rather than taking the high road and giving your child the most important lesson of all, humility and class.

If you're concerned with anything that can be seen by your kids and family on the internet, it should be your actions and language. Your child looks up to you and you set the example for your child. Not Jorge Rivera.
GSPCanada
3/1/11 8:38:31PM
good point. whether you like him or not Bisping is one of the most recognized athletes in the UK. I'm sure his son looks up to him and admires the work he does. I don't think a bunch of kids on English playgrounds are taunting his son for having a british accent, but that is something you learn at a young age and have to teach your kids. words are just words, and u can't escalate the situation, you got paid to kick his ass, and you did, most people don't have that privilege, but that wasn't enough for some reason
mmahole
3/1/11 8:51:40PM
People are forgetting the fact that any knee can be the one that injures someone badly. The illegal part of it 'being landed on a grounded opponent' is the reason why the point was deducted. Kinda confusing to me why a grounded person wouldn't get to take a knee to the face, if a standing one can (legally).

I honestly think that if you are grounded and take a knee to the face you are probably losing the fight anyways; so I don't like the whole "illegal knee decided the fight" copout. If you could have defended the incoming knee you would, hence not being able to defend yourself, hence losing.

Bisping's illegal knee was illegal by UFC or w/e's rules. Punish according. There is no gray area. If you want the illegal knee's to stop, call it a no-contest DQ and I bet it more than likely would NOT have happened.
Rivera knew going into this fight there was 'bad blood' and should have expected to be on the guard for cheapshots and the like. ( I mean he is fighting him in a damn cage after all...) Sure he technically shouldn't have to worry about the knee to the face when grounded but this is a fight and you must be ready at all times regardless. I guess my point is always have that guard up, just like in real life, if on the ground you would watch for the kick or the knee so why would it be any different here? If he would have blocked the illegal knee he would have effectively taken a point from his opponents right?

I am not excusing Bisping's illegal knee or trying to shed light on why he may have done it. I am merely trying to get another take on my opinion of the "knee" vs "illegal knee" scenario and if fighters should be prepared to block illegal knees.

About the racism, stick and stones...



grappler0000
3/1/11 9:25:52PM

Posted by mmahole

I honestly think that if you are grounded and take a knee to the face you are probably losing the fight anyways; so I don't like the whole "illegal knee decided the fight" copout. If you could have defended the incoming knee you would, hence not being able to defend yourself, hence losing.



A fighter shouldn't have to defend against an illegal move...that's absolutely ridiculous. So, you're saying that while Jorge was on his knees, instead of planning his next move, he should be defending against knees to the head, eye gouges, and cup checks? I think not. Whether you agree with them or not, the rules are still the rules. If it was a legal maneuver, I'm sure Jorge would have been prepared for it, but it's not, so he wasn't. In fact, he strategically stayed on his knees, because of the rules...yes, people actually use strategy based on the ruleset of a game/competition. This happens in all sports. This isn't the first time I've heard someone say that a fighter should be prepared to defend an illegal move, but it still blows my mind each and every time.


There is no gray area. If you want the illegal knee's to stop, call it a no-contest DQ and I bet it more than likely would NOT have happened.


Actually there is a gray area...see the MMA Unified Rules.
mmahole
3/1/11 10:48:04PM
No gray area was me speaking about how I feel it should be if they want to stop it. I don't claim to know every rule lol nor am I here to flame or troll or whatever it is that happens within the interwebz.
If someone "strategically stays on their knees" (after being dropped while opponent is still standing) its because they are not in control and thus losing the current situation because they cannot withstand what would be brought should they stand. You know, kinda like taking a breather...















Disclaimer: I'm not pro, so don't waste too much time flaming me you won't get much exp...
grappler0000
3/1/11 11:15:51PM

Posted by mmahole

If someone "strategically stays on their knees" (after being dropped while opponent is still standing) its because they are not in control and thus losing the current situation because they cannot withstand what would be brought should they stand. You know, kinda like taking a breather...



I'm not sure if you actually watched the fight or not, but he wasn't on his knees because he got dropped, but rather on his way up after a takedown. Either way, I've seen plenty of fighters post a knee or time a standup to intelligently remove a weapon from their opponent's arsenal...and in this case, Bisping had the thai clinch, so it would have been universally stupid for him to stand up immediately. To say it's because they're "not in control" or can't withstand "what would be brought" makes very little sense IMHO.
Franklinfan47
3/1/11 11:35:41PM

Posted by cmill21

People get made fun of for many things. Being fat, skinny, bald, talking with a lisp, etc. All that happened is that Bisping was made fun of. Being English isn't a race. Nationalism is an important part to every country and I don't condone insulting someone for where they are from it's ridiculous IMO to call what happened here racist. Racism is 100% restricted to RACE! That's like saying a person who hates christians are anti-Semite's, it's clear you don't know the meaning of the word racist.



Posts like this are really starting to get on my nerves. Clearly, YOU dont know the meaning of the word racist. According to the United Nation's official Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination", or act of racism, shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Though Im sure you know more than the United Nations


And why are people trying to defend Jorge's videos by pointing out that Bisping is prejudice against homosexuals? Two wrongs make a right? (though we are probably up to about 3 or 4 wrongs at this point haha). Why can no one acknowledge that they were both in the wrong.

Also, I want to clarify something because it is getting confusing about who is addressing who in these threads. I have at no point defended the illegal knee, I merely pointed out that no one (besides Bisping) knows if it was intentional or not.
grappler0000
3/1/11 11:48:45PM

Posted by Franklinfan47

the term "racial discrimination", or act of racism, shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.



Not trying to butt in on your guys' debate here, and obviously you made your point about national origin being relevant to racism, but I can't really see how what Jorge did applies to the definition as a whole. Maybe I'm just not seeing it though and I'm certainly open to further explanation.
Sam_Rothstein
3/1/11 11:55:20PM

Posted by FlashyG

I agree with you both that "English" isn't a race, but making fun of someone for their nationality is still pretty offensive. Americans, Canadians, Brazilians, you take a shot at someones nationality and theres a strong chance you'll get an emotional response.

Thats not to excuse Bispings actions, he clearly acted like a child and deserves whatever punishment he gets, he probably even deserved a DQ.

Rivera got into Bispings head but his trash talk got into his own as well. Instead of taking the DQ win, he HAD to back up all the talking he did before the fight and consequently took a loss because of it.






You think Bisping will get punished for this? I highly doubt he faces any consequences as long as he doesn't pull a roger huerta.
FastKnockout
3/1/11 11:57:24PM
Look, guys. Let's stop arguing about this and get to the real issue at hand. Something has to be done about this, quick.

The REAL Issue
grappler0000
3/2/11 12:05:21AM

Posted by FastKnockout

Look, guys. Let's stop arguing about this and get to the real issue at hand. Something has to be done about this, quick.

The REAL Issue



Funny story...I went to Rogan's standup the night before UFC 123. He showed us a video on his phone of Antoine Dodson in the Octagon from earlier that day. He was supposedly front row for the fights the following night, but I didn't see him. Better yet though, they actually played that song during intermission. I don't think most people in attendance even realized what they were playing.
Franklinfan47
3/2/11 11:30:11AM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by Franklinfan47

the term "racial discrimination", or act of racism, shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.



Not trying to butt in on your guys' debate here, and obviously you made your point about national origin being relevant to racism, but I can't really see how what Jorge did applies to the definition as a whole. Maybe I'm just not seeing it though and I'm certainly open to further explanation.



Sorry bro, not ignoring you, just been busy. Here's what I (and I think Bisping) mean:

Ok, so say the UFC books me for a fight with Rampage Jackson tomorrow. In the weeks leading up to the fight, my buddies and I post a video where I paint my skin black and attempt to give my best impression of Rampage, a "parody", as some posters are calling it. In the video, I proceed to use the dialect and slang that Rampage uses in an attempt to make him look stupid and unintelligent. Now, Rampage got those coloquialisms from the african-american community from which he was raised right? So in implying that he's stupid for talking like that, Im implying that that whole community that he comes from is also inherently stupid, because that is part of their culture. That would be racism right?

Well thats basically what Jorge did to Bisping, but like Michael said, people dont pick up on it because he's British, not black, jewish, etc. But it doesnt change the fact that its racism.

Now some people would argue, "well he's just implying that Bisping is stupid, not the entire nation". I thought that at first too. But then Jorge and his buddies go on to mention things like "tea and crumpets" (implying British people are effeminate), etc, which is clearly applicable to the entire population rather than just one person. At that point, it became clear that these videos can be construed as offensive to an entire nation.

I think many posters on this site assume that if something is funny it means its not offensive or racist. But as they say, a "steaming pile of **** still stinks no matter what you call it".
grappler0000
3/2/11 11:44:24AM
Thanks for the reply, but you still didn't address the question at hand. If you reference the definition as part of your argument, you have to apply it as a whole to the situation. You can't just pick one word and call it a day. I'm looking for what Jorge did that makes my bolded text true. That is all. I'm not trying to debate what some people consider racism vs others...just for you to follow through with your argument by explaining the second portion.
Franklinfan47
3/2/11 12:07:14PM

Posted by grappler0000

Thanks for the reply, but you still didn't address the question at hand. If you reference the definition as part of your argument, you have to apply it as a whole to the situation. You can't just pick one word and call it a day. I'm looking for what Jorge did that makes my bolded text true. That is all. I'm not trying to debate what some people consider racism vs others...just for you to follow through with your argument by explaining the second portion.



Well, now your starting to lose me. What was the one word I picked? Racism? And I thought I clearly explained what Jorge did. If you want me to connect it to the UN definition, Jorge impaired (keyword) Bisping's ability to enjoy (keyword) and be respected (human right-keyword) in the social field (keyword) of public life (keyword) by devaluing his nationality. I really dont know how to make it any clearer than that.

I have to go but Ill be back to argue some more later
grappler0000
3/2/11 12:18:33PM

Posted by Franklinfan47


Posted by grappler0000

Thanks for the reply, but you still didn't address the question at hand. If you reference the definition as part of your argument, you have to apply it as a whole to the situation. You can't just pick one word and call it a day. I'm looking for what Jorge did that makes my bolded text true. That is all. I'm not trying to debate what some people consider racism vs others...just for you to follow through with your argument by explaining the second portion.



Well, now your starting to lose me. What was the one word I picked? Racism? And I thought I clearly explained what Jorge did. If you want me to connect it to the UN definition, Jorge impaired (keyword) Bisping's ability to enjoy (keyword) and be respected (human right-keyword) in the social field (keyword) of public life (keyword) by devaluing his nationality. I really dont know how to make it any clearer than that.

I have to go but Ill be back to argue some more later



I'll explain further. The one word I was referring to was "national". I realize the word was highlighted by you only for the purpose of your side-debate about the definition of racism. What I'm saying is that now that you've established that to be your definition, you need to go one step further and apply that definition (as a whole) to the the current topic at hand. Nobody has explained how what Jorge did fits this definition. I've been asking for this in some form or another in different places and nobody has been able to do so yet. That's all that I'm asking. Picking and choosing a few words from the cited definition and not providing examples doesn't really sway my opinion.

Edit: Just to be clear what I'm looking for. There will be multiple words before "human rights and fundamental freedoms" and multiple words after.
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