So much talent, so little PPV's

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Jackelope
8/15/07 7:40:38PM
With all of this talent that the UFC has now brought in I find myself questioning what they're going to do to make sure they're using it all to the best of their ability.

In September we've got a fair amount of PPV's going on but much like everyone else I still can't help but feel like there's guys who should be fighting that aren't getting a chance.

What does the UFC plan to do with all of this talent? 2 or 3 PPV's every month? Therefore flooding the PPV market with the same company doing the same things over and over again until it gets repetitive and boring for the average Joe? It seems to me that after a while it would be so much the norm that eventually PPV purchases would decline. The top, top contenders are going to weed out the weaker contenders and then we'll end up with the same guys fighting each other over and over. Much like the 2nd and 3rd rematches we've seen in Pride. Now, personally I have no problem watching those and I love them, but again.. to the average Joe is that going to be something they want to keep paying PPV prices to see? With each PPV we buy we'll lose out on seeing so many great undercard fights like we're already missing out on, and some of the greatest matches will continue to be pushed lower and lower on the totem pole just so people can watch the big names which pull the biggest hype.

I'm extremely happy some of the Pride guys have come over to fight in these dream match ups we can expect to see over the course of the next year, but I wonder when the whole Pride vs. UFC thing stabilizes in a couple of years what it will be like. Your thoughts?

three_days_of_grey
8/15/07 8:21:27PM
From the way it sounds with the pending HBO deal, fighters will enter into a tiered system with lower ranked fighters on Spikes 'UFC Fight Night' with the winners moving up to fight on HBO, and ultimately to PPV. Even though Pride fighters have joined UFC, I dont think the number of great fighters has increased dramatically enough to necessitate semi-monthly PPV events. I understand why they dont show more undercard fights as they only have an alloted amount of time and to purchase more time would raise the price for the PPV. It would be great if they could show those the following week on Spike. Ratings would be through the roof and UFC/Spike would make money through advertising and not directly from the consumer. Hopefully that HBO deal will get done soon and since Showtime has signed an MMA promotion, HBO will want to get in on that action.

-OUT-
postman
8/15/07 8:33:28PM
That would be great if the HBO deal went down. They could set up big matches that would determine the undercards for ppv down the road and of course the winners of the undercard getting an eventual shot at the title. It would more take the title shots out of the overthinkers hands and back to the fighters, "If you win Your in." But that maybe the problem Dana and Joe seem to think they are the only ones who can and should make the match ups.
Jackelope
8/15/07 8:37:37PM
Shows how much I know.. I hadn't read into detail what the HBO deal would be. I guess it makes this post kind of useless! ha



hippysmacker
8/15/07 9:18:12PM
I agree this break between shows was too long, especially when they had so many close together right before. I would like it if there was a PPV, HBO show, and Spike show every month. As long as they don't make me pay for more, I'll be happy. I think15 PPV's total a year is the absolute maximum I can get people to pitch in on.
crizlance
8/15/07 10:26:59PM

Posted by hippysmacker

I agree this break between shows was too long, especially when they had so many close together right before. I would like it if there was a PPV, HBO show, and Spike show every month. As long as they don't make me pay for more, I'll be happy. I think15 PPV's total a year is the absolute maximum I can get people to pitch in on.



Yeah I agree with you! It was too long... I can't immagine they had a very long break.
It is best for them to have PPV or Spike show every month.
ac_gi
8/16/07 2:38:16AM

Posted by hippysmacker

I agree this break between shows was too long, especially when they had so many close together right before. I would like it if there was a PPV, HBO show, and Spike show every month. As long as they don't make me pay for more, I'll be happy. I think15 PPV's total a year is the absolute maximum I can get people to pitch in on.


That's only 3 shows, but there are 4 weeks in a month. Wait a min... the fourth week could be a WEC show. Life would be perfect.

Hopefully one of those shows out of Japan blows up and replaces Pride as the main show, not in the US. I enjoy watching a MMA broadcast from a different culture's perspective.
BerndRealBad
8/16/07 4:23:07AM

Posted by crizlance

Yeah I agree with you! It was too long... I can't immagine they had a very long break.
It is best for them to have PPV or Spike show every month.



I think they should have both. It's been said hundreds of times already, but with the amount of fighters there are now, they might as well have a 1 fight night and 1 ppv per month, with title defenses in rotation on PPV cards and maybe even through a title match once every few months on the Spike Show. Think it would be fair, then you'd have 4 PPVs and 4 Spike Shows every 4 months, with 4 title matches on PPV and 1 on Spike.
matthughes23
8/16/07 7:04:14AM
if HBO deal pulls through, there will be more space for the guys deserving of a shot on PPV but don't get the opportunity. These fighters/fights could be moved to HBO. So, in my opinion the HBO deal is very crucial and vital
cowcatcher
8/16/07 7:56:32AM
i thought i read that the new spike deal would include live fights every 2 weeks. i could be wrong, but i thought i read it a few days ago, ill look to confirm it.
Branwest
8/16/07 10:53:16AM
I've been saying this for awhile now. I believe that should get rid of TUF and just hold fights on Spike every other week for two hours. They could have four to five fights. This would alleviate some of the backlog of fights. Otherwise, fighters are going to go to other org's just so they can fight on a regular basis.

If they sign the deal with HBO, it will help, but I think the bi-weekly fights on Spike would be much better than the Ultimate Fighter. TUF is basically an outlet for up-and-comers, or, as in the season before last, established fighters that have been somewhat forgotten. Fans would be better served with the 4 to 5 fights every other week. I think the fighters would agree.

They could also have tournaments for various weight classes with the winner getting a title shot. That's kind of what TUF does anyway, but this way there would be better fighters in the mix. You could have GP tournaments like Pride. There are so many options. Either the UFC needs to hold events a lot more often, or figure something else out, but I don't think my idea is too bad. Something needs to be done. Their are too many fighters that are not getting the fights they deserve. They are 'in limbo.' Stuck between either deciding to go to another org or take their chances waiting to be scheduled for a fight in the UFC. WE NEED MORE FIGHTS.......
Hell, the UFC stands to make more money, so there shouldn't be a problem.
Also, they should purchase another hour or so onto their ppv's. I hate not getting to see all the fights/undercard fights.
Branwest
8/16/07 10:55:37AM

Posted by cowcatcher

i thought i read that the new spike deal would include live fights every 2 weeks. i could be wrong, but i thought i read it a few days ago, ill look to confirm it.



I think you're just referring to a post I had in couple of other threads throughout the last couple of weeks where I said that Spike and the UFC should do this. If not, and you read that elsewhere, that's great. We would all benefit.
cowcatcher
8/16/07 10:58:09AM
actually matt hughes said it in his latest interview. im hoping its true, the guy is as close with dana as any fighter this side of chuck so who knows

EDIT: here's the meat of the interview, ill try to find an audio link

As a regular listener of the station I can say that Bob (deeper voice) is a big fan of the sport. Around here, he'd be categorized as a 'TUF noob' of sorts. His knowledge of MMA is pretty limited. The UFC is the only MMA he seems to watch. He doesn't keep up with the latest news. Just watches whatever is on TV/PPV. Dan, on the other hand, doesn't care for it much. He first just thought it was "gay." He's skeptical of it. But he might be warming up to it a little.

For those who don't care to listen, here's the highlights...

- Hughes said he was in town for a seminar (Dallas convention center) until the next day.

- Hughes talked about some idiot who has a lawsuit against him. Someone asked him for a photo, you know pretending to choke him. So he obliged and then the guy claims that later he had a headache for a few days and sued him. Hughes said his friends were sitting there watching them take the photo, nothing out of the ordinary. So he says he's not allowed to do that anymore.

- On his loss to GSP, he said "Georges is a heck of a fighter and he was better that day."

- On GSP/Serra, he said "9 times out of 10 the best fighter's gonna win, but Matt Serra got a little lucky, and kinda threw in a sneaky punch there and caught him. I really think 9 out of 10 times GSP kills Matt Serra."

- They tried to pin him down on how much he makes per fight. He was hesitant to say anything about that. They asked him for a ballpark estimate. Hughes finally said "You tell me what you think." Bob replied by saying Sherdog (salary reports I guess) would generally list him at $300,000. Hughes said "Not even close" as in he makes much more. He says he thinks the fighters are being treated "more than fair."

- In regards to fighters getting a percentage of the PPV, he said "they don't do that anymore." Tito might think differently.

- He says he heard a rumor from the UFC that SpikeTV is going to pay the UFC $100 million to broadcast fights live. Later on, he indicated this was something that could occur "every two weeks." So perhaps a live show broadcast every couple weeks.

- About messing with GSP on TUF, he said "I know Georges and Georges and I like each other so a lot of what I was doing with Georges was I was just having a good time, I grew up with a twin brother and we always tease each other, so it's just who I am."


audio link
LR
8/16/07 11:09:35AM
I'm going to say this, this last break has been a bitch to deal with. With all the MMA news going on, I really have an inkling to see some good MMA. IFL hasn't been what I've wanted. I've resorted to watching repeat episodes of Tapout! and even Fight Girls on freaking Oxygen, which by the way, has some brutal KO's at the end.

I almost bought K-1 GP PPV from Vegas, but I wasn't too interested in a lot of the matchups. I can't wait for this next month, so having UFC/WEC events along with HEROES K-1, etc. It'll be a great month of MMA.
Branwest
8/16/07 11:09:46AM
I hope you're right and they go through with it. That would definately give more fighters the chance to fight on a more regular basis, as well as possibly bring more fighters to, and back, to the UFC.
TNunley
8/16/07 12:02:06PM

Posted by Branwest

I've been saying this for awhile now. I believe that should get rid of TUF and just hold fights on Spike every other week for two hours. They could have four to five fights. This would alleviate some of the backlog of fights. Otherwise, fighters are going to go to other org's just so they can fight on a regular basis.

If they sign the deal with HBO, it will help, but I think the bi-weekly fights on Spike would be much better than the Ultimate Fighter. TUF is basically an outlet for up-and-comers, or, as in the season before last, established fighters that have been somewhat forgotten. Fans would be better served with the 4 to 5 fights every other week. I think the fighters would agree.

They could also have tournaments for various weight classes with the winner getting a title shot. That's kind of what TUF does anyway, but this way there would be better fighters in the mix. You could have GP tournaments like Pride. There are so many options. Either the UFC needs to hold events a lot more often, or figure something else out, but I don't think my idea is too bad. Something needs to be done. Their are too many fighters that are not getting the fights they deserve. They are 'in limbo.' Stuck between either deciding to go to another org or take their chances waiting to be scheduled for a fight in the UFC. WE NEED MORE FIGHTS.......
Hell, the UFC stands to make more money, so there shouldn't be a problem.
Also, they should purchase another hour or so onto their ppv's. I hate not getting to see all the fights/undercard fights.



Not exactly certain that I agree with too much that you're saying. First off, the TUF show... Why would they cancel it when the ratings are still high? I understand you probably don't enjoy the show, but if you're part of the smaller majority, then I think the money probably talks a little louder than you do.

Also, my thoughts on how fighters might go to other organizations to fight more differs from yours as well. Take Tito Ortiz for example, he has fought 5 fights in just over a year. Now it's hard to tell with Tito if he's just complaining or if he legitimately IS having back problems. As well as his show of poor conditioning against Evans. Any fighter knows the less time you have between fighting, the more likely you are to be injured, or under prepared. All that aside though, I don't see fighters leaving the #1 organization to fight in others. Even if it meant a few thousand more a year, they stand to lose the possibility of better sponsorships... or even the chance to be in the spotlight eventually.

I do however agree with the majority of the rest of your post. I think they could host more UFN's, but I don't think the answer would be to replace TUF.
kaduey
8/16/07 2:38:56PM
I'm really missing Pride right now.
Branwest
8/17/07 12:41:46PM

Posted by TNunley


Not exactly certain that I agree with too much that you're saying. First off, the TUF show... Why would they cancel it when the ratings are still high? I understand you probably don't enjoy the show, but if you're part of the smaller majority, then I think the money probably talks a little louder than you do.

Also, my thoughts on how fighters might go to other organizations to fight more differs from yours as well. Take Tito Ortiz for example, he has fought 5 fights in just over a year. Now it's hard to tell with Tito if he's just complaining or if he legitimately IS having back problems. As well as his show of poor conditioning against Evans. Any fighter knows the less time you have between fighting, the more likely you are to be injured, or under prepared. All that aside though, I don't see fighters leaving the #1 organization to fight in others. Even if it meant a few thousand more a year, they stand to lose the possibility of better sponsorships... or even the chance to be in the spotlight eventually.

I do however agree with the majority of the rest of your post. I think they could host more UFN's, but I don't think the answer would be to replace TUF.



Actually, I enjoy TUF and have watched every episode of every season. And, yes, money talks. The UFC is a business and everything's about making money. Their not going to stop TUF right now because they're making too much money (however, their ratings are down from what they were). Their not going to do something unless they are going to make money on it, and TUF's making them money. Even though I think some of the long-time fans would like to see it replaced with a 2hour long FNLive every other week, the newer fans wouldn't.
Personally, I would rather see various tournaments for different weight classes, like Pride, rather than TUF, and with a better caliber of fighters. Yes, many of the fighters on TUF are 'up-and-comers' and you have to put them in the cage to gauge what kind of fighter they are and will be.
Do you not agree that there are fighters that aren't getting the opportunities they deserve? Generally, fighters want to fight at least every 3 to 4 months, and that isn't happening with some like it should (for those who deserve to keep being put on cards). With what's happened with Pride, there's an influx of fighters, and the UFC's got to get them in the cage as well as keep up with other UFC fighters and it's hard.
I think they should have at least 1 PPV per month (which they've actually been doing) as well as 1 FNLive per month. This would help accomadate more of the stalemated fighters, but not cure the overall problem.
Signing a deal w/HBO would definately help. And yeah, sure, we still have the WEC, EliteXC, IFL, Bodog, etc., but that doesn't help the fighters that are signed w/the UFC. Their still needs to be another outlet for them to fight more often.
TNunley
8/17/07 12:49:48PM

Posted by Branwest


Actually, I enjoy TUF and have watched every episode of every season. And, yes, money talks. The UFC is a business and everything's about making money. Their not going to stop TUF right now because they're making too much money (however, their ratings are down from what they were). Their not going to do something unless they are going to make money on it, and TUF's making them money. Even though I think some of the long-time fans would like to see it replaced with a 2hour long FNLive every other week, the newer fans wouldn't.
Personally, I would rather see various tournaments for different weight classes, like Pride, rather than TUF, and with a better caliber of fighters. Yes, many of the fighters on TUF are 'up-and-comers' and you have to put them in the cage to gauge what kind of fighter they are and will be.
Do you not agree that there are fighters that aren't getting the opportunities they deserve? Generally, fighters want to fight at least every 3 to 4 months, and that isn't happening with some like it should (for those who deserve to keep being put on cards). With what's happened with Pride, there's an influx of fighters, and the UFC's got to get them in the cage as well as keep up with other UFC fighters and it's hard.
I think they should have at least 1 PPV per month (which they've actually been doing) as well as 1 FNLive per month. This would help accomadate more of the stalemated fighters, but not cure the overall problem.
Signing a deal w/HBO would definately help. And yeah, sure, we still have the WEC, EliteXC, IFL, Bodog, etc., but that doesn't help the fighters that are signed w/the UFC. Their still needs to be another outlet for them to fight more often.



I do agree with your statement this time. I'm not sure why, but 1 UFN a month seems better to me than 2. Don't get me wrong, I love watching the fights, but afraid that they might run out of decent fights to broadcast if they show too many too often.
Branwest
8/17/07 1:19:19PM
It's possible, but if they added a FW class there'd be more fights. Plus a BW class once it gets more established, which might not take too much longer. It'd probably be imossible to add a Flyweight class unless maybe in the WEC. Though it'd take at least a couple of years for it to have enough fighters to be legit (right now it's not even close). Hell, the WEC could even add women's fighting.
LR
8/17/07 1:51:20PM
Here's a great idea, have Kimbo Slice host a UFC street beatdown show in which UFC fighters fight him and destroy his ass, and then we see 25 minutes of Kimbo acting mad thuggish in the streets beating hoodlums down!
TNunley
8/17/07 2:42:35PM
I dunno, Kimbo's beard might take off about 297lbs of force from punches and kicks.
TNunley
8/17/07 2:43:54PM
Not to mention with all the spotlights, he's liable to figure out how to catch a gleam off his teeth and blind his opponent.
LR
8/17/07 3:17:55PM
Well, they could always get Reggie Warren Jr to come on a kill UFC fighters.
JWils
8/17/07 3:29:39PM
I agree with the post about how annoying it is that when we buy the PPV's we don't get to see all the fights on the card.

I would like to see the UFC and Spike agree to add some programming where these fights are shown. I know they have back to back hours of Unleashed. Maybe still have an hour of old Unleashed episodes and the next hour have an hour of undercard PPV fights to showcase some "up-and-comers".

But, I agree with everyone else. The live Spike shows every two weeks would kick ass. I would even like taped broadcasts of events every 2 weeks.
TNunley
8/17/07 4:10:28PM
Don't they broadcast the undercard fights at UFC.com after the event is over? I know that they generally say that at the end of the PPV, but never looked. It may be like their UFC on demand to make you pay even more after you don't get to see all the fights anyway.
JWils
8/17/07 4:26:52PM

Posted by TNunley

Don't they broadcast the undercard fights at UFC.com after the event is over? I know that they generally say that at the end of the PPV, but never looked. It may be like their UFC on demand to make you pay even more after you don't get to see all the fights anyway.



I don't know. I'll have to check that out after next weekend's PPV.
TOMMYAYO05
8/17/07 5:12:59PM

Posted by Branwest

It's possible, but if they added a FW class there'd be more fights. Plus a BW class once it gets more established, which might not take too much longer. It'd probably be imossible to add a Flyweight class unless maybe in the WEC. Though it'd take at least a couple of years for it to have enough fighters to be legit (right now it's not even close). Hell, the WEC could even add women's fighting.

Womens fighting???I am going to be the first to say maybe it would be cool at first but that would get hell of old.
Jackelope
8/17/07 5:19:29PM

Posted by TOMMYAYO05


Posted by Branwest

It's possible, but if they added a FW class there'd be more fights. Plus a BW class once it gets more established, which might not take too much longer. It'd probably be imossible to add a Flyweight class unless maybe in the WEC. Though it'd take at least a couple of years for it to have enough fighters to be legit (right now it's not even close). Hell, the WEC could even add women's fighting.

Womens fighting???I am going to be the first to say maybe it would be cool at first but that would get hell of old.



Not if they brought in girls who look like some of the WWE girls. You know with them grappling on the ground you're bound to get a good view
hippysmacker
8/17/07 9:12:56PM

Posted by JWils


Posted by TNunley

Don't they broadcast the undercard fights at UFC.com after the event is over? I know that they generally say that at the end of the PPV, but never looked. It may be like their UFC on demand to make you pay even more after you don't get to see all the fights anyway.



I don't know. I'll have to check that out after next weekend's PPV.



It's UFC on demand only
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