The Tale of Brock Lesnar

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KungFuMaster
3/30/12 6:24:29PM
I just had a revelation recently about Brock.

In the beginning, Brock was fearless. He entered mma without any training and was willing to take on giants and cyclops. He ventured across the seven seas to find warriors who could give him a good sweat. One could have a lifetime experience of the finest and deadliest martial arts in the world - and Brock would just literally squash him like a bug.

Untrained but fearless as he continued to dominate and mock all those who have come before him. With ease, he dismantled champions and former champions left and right.

.....And then someone decided to take Brock under his wings - and teach him the philosophy and elements of fighting. He molded Brock - taught him to be cautious of this and that... He taught Brock to be cautious of eye pokes, arm pit tickles, finger flicks and much more......and soon Brock became human. He began to feel fear. He was afraid to be flicked and tickled. He was afraid for the first time in his life. The man who was supposedly helping Brock to become a better fighter - instilled fear in him...

...And since then - Brock has become more human ever since.

The question is...."If Brock had not joined an mma gym, would he still be fighting today?"
KungFuMaster
3/30/12 6:35:48PM
That is right - I am acussing of whoever was training Brock - for instilling fear in him. I personally think Brock would have been a much better fighter without the training. All the trainind did was instilled fear in him.
prozacnation1978
3/30/12 6:48:25PM
Brock did change his philsophy on fighting like he found the god of MMA. That or I guess almost dying twice cause of what happened to him would straighten out your prioritys in life.
DeadHead988
3/30/12 7:10:50PM
jae_1833
3/31/12 1:28:52PM
I think Cain Velasquez hit him in the eye.....that's what scared him.
Pookie
3/31/12 3:15:15PM
Eh. I think Brock Manhandled his training partners. Pat barry, Chris Turscherererrerererererer. They're not ones to instill fear, for they have no way of stopping lesnar's takedown and/or hurting him after sprawling.

Lesnar's arms are just to big to properly guard his body from the attacks of Cain, Carwin, and Overeem. And so he turned and barrelrolled out of there as a means of creating distance.
Chael_Sonnen
3/31/12 4:29:59PM
Brock was never the same after Kurt Angle whooped him.
Bubbles
3/31/12 7:21:48PM
really? you think his MMA gym and training partners were the reason for his downfall? Please find me a professional fighter who has any sort of success that doesn't belong to a gym
KungFuMaster
3/31/12 7:43:06PM
Brock vs Min Soo Kim - No fear.

Brock vs Frank Mir I - No fear.

Brock vs Heath Herring - No fear.

Brock vs Randy Couture - Cautious ( fear was introduced )

Brock vs Frank Mir II - More cautious ( fear is settling in )

Brock vs Shane Carwin - Fear vs Will and Will won.

Brock vs Cain Velasquez - Fear vs Will and Fear won.

Brock vs Alistair Overeem - Scared.

pmoney
3/31/12 7:57:29PM
I would imagine the potentially life threatening bouts with diverticulitis had more to do with the fear than anything. That seemed to be the real psychological turning point in Lesnar's MMA career.
KungFuMaster
3/31/12 8:21:10PM

Posted by pmoney

I would imagine the potentially life threatening bouts with diverticulitis had more to do with the fear than anything. That seemed to be the real psychological turning point in Lesnar's MMA career.



You and Prozac brought up a good point regarding Brock's health which definitely played a role in Brock's performance. I'm not denying that at all..but I also noticed how Brock's approach changed in his fights with Randy and Mir (second fight). In the fight with Randy and the second fight with Mir, Brock was a bit hesitant in the first round. I personally think he could have demolished them in the first if he was not hesitant. In the second round of those fights, Brock finally realized how much stronger he was and he crushed them.

So what I'm saying is - the training he received made him more cautious and hesitant and he was not being the fearless fighter he was when he fought the first few times.

I know I am stretching this idea a bit but I truly believe there is some truths to what I said. Brock was trained to be cautious of certain things and it made him more vulnerable as a fighter IMO.
postman
3/31/12 8:33:56PM
Brock vs Min Soo Kim - Don't really remember

Brock vs Frank Mir I - His no fear attitude got him tapped by technique. He was forced to learn Sub defense

Brock vs Heath Herring - Too big and strong for heath who didnt have nearly the sub game of Frank.

Brock vs Randy Couture - You say Cautious. Well he was being pushed around by a guy much smaller and older then him. Until he caught Randy behind the ear.

Brock vs Frank Mir II - He worked on sub D and won the fight

Brock vs Shane Carwin - The first time we really saw him get hit in the face he showed he didn't like it at all. Then he uses a choke that had he not joined a gym he prob wouldn't have known.

Brock vs Cain Velasquez - He fought a guy he wasn't going to be able to take down and wasn't going to out box. Anyone who knew anything should have had Cain in that fight.

Brock vs Alistair Overeem - See above.

I don't think the gym had anything to do with it. Other then helping him win the fights he did.

infestructure
3/31/12 8:48:47PM
^^^ What he said. Brock was the cause of his own downfall. He does not like getting hit, unless he fixes this, he will always have that huge sweet spot in his armor.
Bubbles
3/31/12 8:59:51PM
you see fear, everyone else sees him employing a gameplan. if gameplan = fear, then every fighter in the world is scared.
warglory
3/31/12 11:54:33PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

Brock vs Min Soo Kim - No fear.

Brock vs Frank Mir I - No fear.

Brock vs Heath Herring - No fear.

Brock vs Randy Couture - Cautious ( fear was introduced )

Brock vs Frank Mir II - More cautious ( fear is settling in )

Brock vs Shane Carwin - Fear vs Will and Will won.

Brock vs Cain Velasquez - Fear vs Will and Fear won.

Brock vs Alistair Overeem - Scared.




There is more than one type of fear KFM, and the fear you continue to allude to isn't a type of fear prevalent in the fight world, considering it's kind of a prerequisite to not be fearful of. The fear that IS common, as with any type of performer, is the fear of not screwing up in front of an audience, and/or those who have worked hard to train you. I did a lot of stage acting in high school, and actors don't fear not being able to act during a performance, they fear forgetting their lines, etc. Not wanting to get punched in the face isn't normally product of fear for a professional fighter I'd suspect, it's a product of not wanting to get punched in the face, and not having the necessary experience to switch off that reactionary part of your brain that says you must recoil from pain.

I think it's a bit insulting to what Brock Lesnar achieved in his short career, to say he was scared to fight in the traditional way that average people don't like to fight based on the fight or flight instinct. Professional fighters, at least the successful ones, learn to deal with that emotion, Brock is no different, and I think he knew that from the moment he chose to enter the sport.
Pookie
4/1/12 2:54:49AM
notice he was "scared" of all the people he couldn't take down.
infestructure
4/1/12 10:39:35PM
I don't see fear at all, Brock is obviously a warrior, anyone can see that by his attitude.

But a warrior has a choice upon getting hit, and a true MMA fighter will intelligently defend themselves, which is usually a smart choice in a mixed martial arts fight whereas Brock covers himself blindly - turtling, as many call it. But I do not think it's fear, he merely does not like getting hit. Which is a silly idea, as strikes hurt just as much whether you are turtling up or not.

Turtling has its advantages, but not in MMA. Turtles in the wild often use this technique to great effect to evade predators, however, as Lesnar found, it does not work without a shell.
warglory
4/1/12 10:56:20PM

Posted by infestructure

Turtling has its advantages, but not in MMA. Turtles in the wild often use this technique to great effect to evade predators, however, as Lesnar found, it does not work without a shell.



Deep thoughts with Jack Handy.
KungFuMaster
4/6/12 1:22:09AM

Posted by warglory


Posted by KungFuMaster

Brock vs Min Soo Kim - No fear.

Brock vs Frank Mir I - No fear.

Brock vs Heath Herring - No fear.

Brock vs Randy Couture - Cautious ( fear was introduced )

Brock vs Frank Mir II - More cautious ( fear is settling in )

Brock vs Shane Carwin - Fear vs Will and Will won.

Brock vs Cain Velasquez - Fear vs Will and Fear won.

Brock vs Alistair Overeem - Scared.




There is more than one type of fear KFM, and the fear you continue to allude to isn't a type of fear prevalent in the fight world, considering it's kind of a prerequisite to not be fearful of. The fear that IS common, as with any type of performer, is the fear of not screwing up in front of an audience, and/or those who have worked hard to train you. I did a lot of stage acting in high school, and actors don't fear not being able to act during a performance, they fear forgetting their lines, etc. Not wanting to get punched in the face isn't normally product of fear for a professional fighter I'd suspect, it's a product of not wanting to get punched in the face, and not having the necessary experience to switch off that reactionary part of your brain that says you must recoil from pain.

I think it's a bit insulting to what Brock Lesnar achieved in his short career, to say he was scared to fight in the traditional way that average people don't like to fight based on the fight or flight instinct. Professional fighters, at least the successful ones, learn to deal with that emotion, Brock is no different, and I think he knew that from the moment he chose to enter the sport.



You have a good point but if I remember correctly - there are only two basic emotions which are fear and love. Cautious would fall under fear.

As bjj165 would put it, "It's morphin' time!"
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