Sylvia SEVERELY over paid.

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ncordless
7/22/08 1:34:08PM
Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?


Aaronno9
7/22/08 1:53:46PM

Posted by ncordless

Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?







The funny thing is, people are always talking about how fighters and underpaid and should get more ect. So big Tim goes and gets himself a nice packet and this guy wants to fight him becouse of it
jkdskinhead
7/22/08 1:59:36PM

Posted by ncordless

Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?





1. Capitalism is just awefull.. No I dont belive in this.

2. No that is immoral, most people dont get paid what they are worth, and I findit disgusting and immoral when people who do nothing and rake in millions while the people at the bottum are breaking their backs.. and I dont want any comments about how the people had to work their way to the top, thats how capitolism is fair... no, 99% of the people at the tops were born at the top, or cheated theior way there.

3. I dunno, whats wrong with Jed Pittman showing up for work 4 days a year, and making 10x what his office workers make?

4. I belive people should get paid what their job is worth.. Cole miners and roofers should make triple digits, and Actors should make 20k a year. If not that, then everyone should get paid the same, but not exactly what they need, they should get whatever extra money there is.

5. I dont think any athlete should get more then 100,000 a fight.. and thats more then enough. Yea I know their jobs are hard, but their are harder jobs, and there are life threatening jobs. 100,000 for one days work is just incredible.. all the sponsors pay for their training and then some.. actually i think 100,000 is a lil over the top, but o well.
ncordless
7/22/08 2:06:18PM

Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by ncordless

Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?





1. Capitalism is just awefull.. No I dont belive in this.

2. No that is immoral, most people dont get paid what they are worth, and I findit disgusting and immoral when people who do nothing and rake in millions while the people at the bottum are breaking their backs.. and I dont want any comments about how the people had to work their way to the top, thats how capitolism is fair... no, 99% of the people at the tops were born at the top, or cheated theior way there.

3. I dunno, whats wrong with Jed Pittman showing up for work 4 days a year, and making 10x what his office workers make?

4. I belive people should get paid what their job is worth.. Cole miners and roofers should make triple digits, and Actors should make 20k a year. If not that, then everyone should get paid the same, but not exactly what they need, they should get whatever extra money there is.

5. I dont think any athlete should get more then 100,000 a fight.. and thats more then enough. Yea I know their jobs are hard, but their are harder jobs, and there are life threatening jobs. 100,000 for one days work is just incredible.. all the sponsors pay for their training and then some.. actually i think 100,000 is a lil over the top, but o well.



And that's fine. I can definitely see where someone who leans to the left would have a problem with fighter salaries... I just wonder if all those who complain about fighter salaries are really that liberal.
Jackelope
7/22/08 3:34:12PM

Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by big_timmy

He has been UFC champion yes, but so was Ricco. Tim hasnt done anything of note for the past year and a half. Struggled to do anything against Monson who is a foot shorter than him, lost to Randy which is fair enough, layed on Vera for 2 rounds for a decision, lost to big nog, lost to fedor in 36 seconds. 6 of his last 8 fights have gone to decision.

Its right there for anyone to see. Its not fighter bashing when its in the facts.



My assumption is now a confirmation that you know very little about fighting

1) Ricco Rodriguez was absolutely scary back when he was owning the UFC heavyweight ranks. Don't be fooled by the Ricco of today. The Ricco of yesteryear was a terror. Hell, most people think he beat Big Nog.

2) Monson is a very dangerous and very strong submission fighter who waits for you to slip up and catch you in a submission. Most people with long limbs and poor sub defense would play the same gameplan against a guy of similar stature.

3) Vera clinched with Tim because Vera broke his hand. Why the hell would Sylvia at 6'8, who's known for his distance striking want to close the distance with a superior grappler and wrestler?

Fights are two sided, buddy. You can't just lay the blame on one side. Unless you're Fedor. In the defense of Tim's opponents not making the fight more exciting- well.. you jump in there with Tim Sylvia and try to push right into his jabs and straights.

Really, you should spend some time learning MMA in a legitimate gym so you can see how ignorant some of the comments you're posting are.



1) Ricco was never scary.. I actually dont know much about him today, but I have seen all his old fights. He was always boring, he always gased out, and he always had nothing in his bag except a submission.

2) This fight was just silly.. its obvious to anyone that knows fighting that Monson is a better P4P fighter.. way better. The only reason Tim won is because he was big. Thats like becoming president because your last name is Bush. Yeah I can understand Tim keeping him away on the ground.. but in the standup there was no reason for Tim not to try to get the KO.. its not like Monson was gonna try a flying armbar. Tim was just doing what he does and clinging to his victories without caring about the fans.

3) No.. Vera kept opening up with strikes.. everytime there was an exchange Tim said "oh no!", tied Vera up and put him against the cage for the rest of the round. Im sorry but I think Tim should have got yellow cards in that fight for his antics. The rules say you gotta fight. Holding someone down and not fighting is just pathetic.

I dont blame it on other fighters, I saw Vera taking it to Tim the whole fight, only to have Tim use his size to hold Vera against the cage.

As for Nog.. theres no such thing as winning a fight. You win or you dont win. Anyone can say.. yea I would have won if only this didint happen, or I had done this instead. Hell Tim Sylvia could have been winning the Fedor fight up untill the point where Fedor threw a punch. A fight comes out to who was the smarter man.. who pulled out the technique that won the fight. There is no such thing as winning a fight, because the whole fight was leading up to the point of victory.. Nog was winning the fight from beggining to end, because the whole fight was leading to his submission victory.


About Randy..

Do I think hes better then Tim, oh yes, and ten fold.. Do I think he Deserves his ranking? No, not at all. His record speaks for itself, not to mention on that record, he really hasnt faced alot of good heavyweights. I dont see how people rank him number one or number two on their heavyweight list, when he has only beatin Gabe, and Tim. Heck he lost to Josh B. way back when Josh sucked, and they have Josh way down on their lists, when Josh actaully fights top heavyweights. I dont see how a guy can be ranked number two in HW, when he hasnt even fought a couple people in the top 5 or maybe even 10.



Your comments about Tim are obviously based on a dislike for Tim. Since I've already wasted several minutes of my life trying to convince someone of something they won't get, I won't waste any more time on yourself.

Believe what you want to believe, but Tim's record speaks for itself. As for Ricco not being scary... well.. I guess you can believe what you want to believe. If beating Monson, Couture, and Big Nog aren't good enough for you then I guess we'll see you with the UFC HW Champ strap real soon here and I'll STFU. Again, your general attitude towards the conversation and the points you bring up speak volumes for your knowledge. Some people are just haters. I really don't know why, but sweet... good for you.
JimiMak
7/22/08 6:13:30PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

well i agree with the TS. Tim Sylvia did not deserve that money in the slightest, but i guess they had to draw him away from the UFC somehow. oh, and i thought Fedor was asking for 1 million+....how did he get stuck with 300,000? either way, it is good and bad because it shows that there is some serious money to be made in the sport and that MMA fighters are starting to get paid more and more.



It was a huge coup for them to get a guy who'd fought for the UFC title 8 times. He was also the biggest drawing name. Of course Tim deserved it.

I'm willing to bet that Fedor banked on making a ton off of the ppv%.
telnights
7/22/08 7:39:34PM
I do think Tim was way over paid but I don't think that's his fault at all. I think Affliction is dumping to much money in to fighter pay when the haven't even got off the ground. What they should have been dumping money into is marketing. I also think in the long run this kind of pay will hurt MMA as a hole as. Tim is a big name but not in a good way. He is disliked by most fans for his boring style so if anything I think him being part of the main event just hurt affliction when it comes to pulling in your avg MMA fan. The biggest draw on their card as far as US market was probably AA but he has been having the same problem Tim has and that is a few of his recent fights were slow at best. Now if I was Tim yes I would have jumped on 800k to fight. But that doesn't mean he is worth that kind of money. As some has said Brook got paid 250k but in the big picture of things he is a much bigger draw than Tim is. In fact I would put Brook up there as one of the biggest draws in MMA. Brook and Kimbo both are huge draws now I wouldn't say they are main event worthy yet (I don't think Kimbo will ever be main event worthy) but because they are such big draws they deserve more than someone that isn't but not excessively. Like in UFC 81 most people I know that are avg fans ordered the PPV to see Brook vs Mir not Tim vs Nog. On that same account your avg fan doesn't like Tim. Now they may want to see him loss but I don't think enough to order a PPV.

Now the reason I think the pay is bad for MMA is because in the end I think it will cause more of a divide than there already is between under card fighters and your main event fighters. As you pay your top guys more your lower guys make less. This has been proven time and time again in boxing and other sports as well. Affliction is just adding to that problem and I would like to see them go some where but as it stands now they are dumping to much in to over head and not enough were it should be going and that's marketing.
Buddharox
7/22/08 7:41:24PM

Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by ncordless

Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?





1. Capitalism is just awefull.. No I dont belive in this.

2. No that is immoral, most people dont get paid what they are worth, and I findit disgusting and immoral when people who do nothing and rake in millions while the people at the bottum are breaking their backs.. and I dont want any comments about how the people had to work their way to the top, thats how capitolism is fair... no, 99% of the people at the tops were born at the top, or cheated theior way there.

3. I dunno, whats wrong with Jed Pittman showing up for work 4 days a year, and making 10x what his office workers make?

4. I belive people should get paid what their job is worth.. Cole miners and roofers should make triple digits, and Actors should make 20k a year. If not that, then everyone should get paid the same, but not exactly what they need, they should get whatever extra money there is.

5. I dont think any athlete should get more then 100,000 a fight.. and thats more then enough. Yea I know their jobs are hard, but their are harder jobs, and there are life threatening jobs. 100,000 for one days work is just incredible.. all the sponsors pay for their training and then some.. actually i think 100,000 is a lil over the top, but o well.



Atheletes usually have up to age 40 to make their living. Do you think 100k a few times a year would be enough to retire on? Their bodies take a lot of abuse that will haunt them when they're older.

Also, it's not really the payday for one day's work, it's months of training also. It's more than a full-time job, and you need incredible motivation to do that much training.
jkdskinhead
7/22/08 7:42:33PM

Posted by Jackelope


Your comments about Tim are obviously based on a dislike for Tim. Since I've already wasted several minutes of my life trying to convince someone of something they won't get, I won't waste any more time on yourself.

Believe what you want to believe, but Tim's record speaks for itself. As for Ricco not being scary... well.. I guess you can believe what you want to believe. If beating Monson, Couture, and Big Nog aren't good enough for you then I guess we'll see you with the UFC HW Champ strap real soon here and I'll STFU. Again, your general attitude towards the conversation and the points you bring up speak volumes for your knowledge. Some people are just haters. I really don't know why, but sweet... good for you.



Actually, I dont hate Tim at all, and nothing I said here would imply that I hate him, let alone not liking him.. Thx for your prejudice. If you read my other posts, youll see I had Tim coming out as the winner in the Fedor fight. I like Tim, im just not happy with the way hes been fighting lately.

I would in no way stand a chance against Tim, or Ricco, or anyone fighting heavyweight in a major organization. Just because im not fighting them, doesnt mean I cant have a say about mixed martial arts. If only professional fighters were allowed to have an opinion, this website would have gone under before it even opened up. Good job telling people they shouldnt have an opinion on something thats entire platform is opinion based.. welcome to the internet my friend.

Some people are just prejudice, and label people without anygrounds to do so. I really dont know why, but sweet, good for you.
jkdskinhead
7/22/08 7:50:18PM

Posted by Buddharox


Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by ncordless

Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?





1. Capitalism is just awefull.. No I dont belive in this.

2. No that is immoral, most people dont get paid what they are worth, and I findit disgusting and immoral when people who do nothing and rake in millions while the people at the bottum are breaking their backs.. and I dont want any comments about how the people had to work their way to the top, thats how capitolism is fair... no, 99% of the people at the tops were born at the top, or cheated theior way there.

3. I dunno, whats wrong with Jed Pittman showing up for work 4 days a year, and making 10x what his office workers make?

4. I belive people should get paid what their job is worth.. Cole miners and roofers should make triple digits, and Actors should make 20k a year. If not that, then everyone should get paid the same, but not exactly what they need, they should get whatever extra money there is.

5. I dont think any athlete should get more then 100,000 a fight.. and thats more then enough. Yea I know their jobs are hard, but their are harder jobs, and there are life threatening jobs. 100,000 for one days work is just incredible.. all the sponsors pay for their training and then some.. actually i think 100,000 is a lil over the top, but o well.



Atheletes usually have up to age 40 to make their living. Do you think 100k a few times a year would be enough to retire on? Their bodies take a lot of abuse that will haunt them when they're older.

Also, it's not really the payday for one day's work, it's months of training also. It's more than a full-time job, and you need incredible motivation to do that much training.



As already noted, sponsors pay for their training. They still make money on merchandise and sponsors after they retire. 100k a few times a year?? thats an insane amount of money. I could retire right now on getting 100k.. but id be retiring in the Philippines :) .. But seriously. In two fights you could buy a house, next fight buy a car and put 70k in the bank.. Let the interest build up, ur next 100k invest, just like a 401k.. do you know how long it would take the average worker to put 100k into his 401k? pretty much their whole career. So pretty much in a year you could be set to retire. Fighting untill your 40 wow you would be rich beyond your dreams, no need to worry. Seriously how much do you think the average worker retires on.. seeing how the average worker makes 40k a year, and only a small small percentage of that goes into their retirement.
Jackelope
7/22/08 11:35:57PM

Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by Buddharox


Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by ncordless

Before you make a statement about fighters making too much money, ask yourself this...

1. Do you believe in a free market? The driving force behind Capitalism is that people's desire for money drives the economy.

2. Would you at your job accept more money than you are worth?

3. What's wrong with a fighter taking as much money as he can possibly get?

4. Do you believe in an economy where money is distributed equally? A market in which everyone does what they can and get paid what they need, a la socialism or communism.

5. If so, then what is the right amount for someone to get paid for fighting?





1. Capitalism is just awefull.. No I dont belive in this.

2. No that is immoral, most people dont get paid what they are worth, and I findit disgusting and immoral when people who do nothing and rake in millions while the people at the bottum are breaking their backs.. and I dont want any comments about how the people had to work their way to the top, thats how capitolism is fair... no, 99% of the people at the tops were born at the top, or cheated theior way there.

3. I dunno, whats wrong with Jed Pittman showing up for work 4 days a year, and making 10x what his office workers make?

4. I belive people should get paid what their job is worth.. Cole miners and roofers should make triple digits, and Actors should make 20k a year. If not that, then everyone should get paid the same, but not exactly what they need, they should get whatever extra money there is.

5. I dont think any athlete should get more then 100,000 a fight.. and thats more then enough. Yea I know their jobs are hard, but their are harder jobs, and there are life threatening jobs. 100,000 for one days work is just incredible.. all the sponsors pay for their training and then some.. actually i think 100,000 is a lil over the top, but o well.



Atheletes usually have up to age 40 to make their living. Do you think 100k a few times a year would be enough to retire on? Their bodies take a lot of abuse that will haunt them when they're older.

Also, it's not really the payday for one day's work, it's months of training also. It's more than a full-time job, and you need incredible motivation to do that much training.



As already noted, sponsors pay for their training. They still make money on merchandise and sponsors after they retire. 100k a few times a year?? thats an insane amount of money. I could retire right now on getting 100k.. but id be retiring in the Philippines :) .. But seriously. In two fights you could buy a house, next fight buy a car and put 70k in the bank.. Let the interest build up, ur next 100k invest, just like a 401k.. do you know how long it would take the average worker to put 100k into his 401k? pretty much their whole career. So pretty much in a year you could be set to retire. Fighting untill your 40 wow you would be rich beyond your dreams, no need to worry. Seriously how much do you think the average worker retires on.. seeing how the average worker makes 40k a year, and only a small small percentage of that goes into their retirement.



Sure, 100k is a lot of money...

But come on, why shouldn't these guys deserve big paychecks? I'm not talking about the 20 mil a fight paycheck like top boxers get, but really are people dissatisfied with fighters getting paid several hundred thousand for a fight? In my opinion what Sylvia got paid is a good number for a top fighter fighting in the main event. I think it's about time guys get paid this much, and as long as your undercard guys are still getting a couple grand a fight, there's no complaints here, either. Mid card fighters should get 20-50k a fight plus whatever they can make off their endorsements/sponsors.

All of our other disagreements aside- look at it like this. Does an MMA fighter train as hard as a professional football player, golfer, basketball player, or any other pro athlete? Training alongside top fighters I can personally attest to the fact that they do. If not harder. There's no offseason in MMA, and if you slack off you lose the edge on guys who stay in the gym. It's a cutthroat business and one can argue the lifespan of a fighter is shorter than that of a professional athlete be it MLB, MLS, NBA, NFL, whatever.

So if your lowest tier MLB player is getting 390k+ a year and A-Rod is getting paid 28 mil a year, why should people complain about a professional fighter at the highest level getting paid 2-3 mil a year? (assuming he fights 3 or 4 times) The professional mixed martial artist I guarantee you works harder, takes a bigger toll on his body, and will have a much shorter career span. So why should people complain that he's getting 1/10th of what A-Rod is? To put it into perspective-

the MLB league MINIMUM (0 years in MLB) is $390,000
NFL league MINIMUM (0 years in NFL)- $285,000
NBA league MINIMUM (0 years in NBA)- $427,163

So why should it be such a big deal that one fighters gets paid 800k a fight? Your top fighter works just as hard if not harder than every single person you could take from any of those other leagues. So one guy goes and negotiates a good contract for 800k a fight and people start bitching about it. Granted he didn't have a very good showing in his last fight (getting choked out in 36 seconds) but you're telling me A-Rod (who makes 28 mil a year) didn't have a bad day when he went 0-4 on 7/10/08 against PIT? How about the next day when he went 1-4 with no RBI's? Or two days later when he did the same thing? Looks like he had a bad WEEK.

I just don't follow your logic.
big_timmy
7/22/08 11:42:50PM
Fighting till 40? Poor them. They make more in 10 years fighting than most do working their whole career spanning 40+ years. 100K a few times a year? Poor them. Who needs to keep working when your house is completely paid for, you have a sweet car (or scooter), your being paid to sit there and wear clothes, you do a commercial once a year and you have to commentate every now and then.

Mate, if thats what taking a few hits to the face entitles me to, sign me up.

$800,000 for a few months training, and you want me to have a cry about it? It doesnt matter if thats for years of training, $800,000 to any tom dick or harry on the street will see them thru at least 5 years of running a family, AT LEAST. So you do the math. And you want me to feel sorry for him?

no.

And as far as it being a tough job, again, no. Its tougher than a lot out there, but until the opponents run around with machete's and semi automatics, than there job isnt that hard.
ncordless
7/22/08 11:53:38PM

Posted by big_timmy

Fighting till 40? Poor them. They make more in 10 years fighting than most do working their whole career spanning 40+ years. 100K a few times a year? Poor them. Who needs to keep working when your house is completely paid for, you have a sweet car (or scooter), your being paid to sit there and wear clothes, you do a commercial once a year and you have to commentate every now and then.

Mate, if thats what taking a few hits to the face entitles me to, sign me up.

$800,000 for a few months training, and you want me to have a cry about it? It doesnt matter if thats for years of training, $800,000 to any tom dick or harry on the street will see them thru at least 5 years of running a family, AT LEAST. So you do the math. And you want me to feel sorry for him?

no.

And as far as it being a tough job, again, no. Its tougher than a lot out there, but until the opponents run around with machete's and semi automatics, than there job isnt that hard.



That's the other part of it. It's not only what they do but how good they are at doing it. Say what you want about pro fighters, but they are much better than you at fighting. No one would pay you that much no matter how hard you train because you will never be that good. A truly skilled fighter is a rare thing and they are getting paid for their rarity.
Jackelope
7/23/08 12:02:53AM

Posted by big_timmy

Fighting till 40? Poor them. They make more in 10 years fighting than most do working their whole career spanning 40+ years. 100K a few times a year? Poor them. Who needs to keep working when your house is completely paid for, you have a sweet car (or scooter), your being paid to sit there and wear clothes, you do a commercial once a year and you have to commentate every now and then.

Mate, if thats what taking a few hits to the face entitles me to, sign me up.

$800,000 for a few months training, and you want me to have a cry about it? It doesnt matter if thats for years of training, $800,000 to any tom dick or harry on the street will see them thru at least 5 years of running a family, AT LEAST. So you do the math. And you want me to feel sorry for him?

no.

And as far as it being a tough job, again, no. Its tougher than a lot out there, but until the opponents run around with machete's and semi automatics, than there job isnt that hard.



If you want to pull that kind of logic on me, then that's cool.

Last year I finished up a tour in Iraq that lasted 16 months. Should I have gotten paid $800,000 for that? I got paid a little over $20,000 for that entire time. I wasn't some POG sitting on his rear, either. I was light infantry humping a 120 lb. gear set up miles upon miles for hours upon hours every day in 120 degree weather. I'm not sitting here bitching about what fighters are getting paid.

Another thing I can ask you- Where do you suggest that extra money goes if not into the fighter's pockets? Let's say they pay each fighter $50,000. The gate sales and PPV sales are still going to draw in several mil. Who gets it? Dana White or some other MMA president?

Or should you just have to pay less for the PPV or tickets to see it? I have bought almost every single PPV this year and I've never once complained about the price. I don't make much money, either. (as you see above) 40 bucks for 3 hours of solid entertainment with 14 or more of the very best in the world on display for my enjoyment? Sounds like a good deal to me.

Jackelope
7/23/08 12:14:31AM
By the way, I never once said I wanted anyone to feel sorry for fighters making money in their fights. In fact I only ever said it's about time they got their just dues.
jkdskinhead
7/23/08 12:37:44AM
I dont think all those other sports athletes should make that much money either, its just insane.

Do I think you should have gotten 800,000 for one day in Iraq? No.

Do I think you should make more money then Tim Silvia? Definately

Theres plenty they could do with the extra money.. In Afflictions case, they could of had some better marketing. Thos commercials sucked balls. They could have put more into the show, the mics kept going out, the commentators were always off (Jay needs to stick to scripted commentating).

In general tho, say in the UFC, they could pay the lower class fighters a little bit more, so they could actaully train fulltime. They could set money aside for the organizations future. They could hold more events, or have another side organization. They could lower the PPVs a bit.. I missed alot of them, because I was strapped for cash. They could hold more international shows.

big_timmy
7/23/08 12:52:36AM
Same here. Saying that they dont earn as much as other top athletes only works if you believe that they earn there cash aswell, and i was hoping not to go into it here, cause i dont believe thats right either. Same with actors.

As for you, i do belive you should earn more than you are paid, because your actually doing a tough job. Im not here to get into polotics, but you were doing your job, and its a life threatening one, so yes, you deserve more than Tim Sylvia gets paid. Police, Fireys, Ambos, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, all these proffesions earn there money, and i believe they should be paid more. Maybe not doctors, cause they alright for themselves.



Posted by ncordless

That's the other part of it. It's not only what they do but how good they are at doing it. Say what you want about pro fighters, but they are much better than you at fighting. No one would pay you that much no matter how hard you train because you will never be that good. A truly skilled fighter is a rare thing and they are getting paid for their rarity.




Your saying Tim Sylvia is a trully skilled fighter? And who are you to tell anyone that they arent good enough, do you acually know me? This is possibly the stupidest enrty to this argument yet.

And if you look earlier in the thread, i said that i do believe that good fighter should earn good money, just not $800,000, and just not Tim Sylvia.
jkdskinhead
7/23/08 1:07:04AM

Posted by big_timmy

Same here. Saying that they dont earn as much as other top athletes only works if you believe that they earn there cash aswell, and i was hoping not to go into it here, cause i dont believe thats right either. Same with actors.

As for you, i do belive you should earn more than you are paid, because your actually doing a tough job. Im not here to get into polotics, but you were doing your job, and its a life threatening one, so yes, you deserve more than Tim Sylvia gets paid. Police, Fireys, Ambos, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, all these proffesions earn there money, and i believe they should be paid more. Maybe not doctors, cause they alright for themselves.



Posted by ncordless

That's the other part of it. It's not only what they do but how good they are at doing it. Say what you want about pro fighters, but they are much better than you at fighting. No one would pay you that much no matter how hard you train because you will never be that good. A truly skilled fighter is a rare thing and they are getting paid for their rarity.




Your saying Tim Sylvia is a trully skilled fighter? And who are you to tell anyone that they arent good enough, do you acually know me? This is possibly the stupidest enrty to this argument yet. Well done good sir, you've just make a complete dick out of yourself.

And if you look earlier in the thread, i said that i do believe that good fighter should earn good money, just not $800,000, and just not Tim Sylvia.



Yea I dont think Tim is one of those rarities your dreaming about.. Tim is just a guy that is 6'8 that put alot of hours in training.. Tim definatly wasnt born a natural.
Jackelope
7/23/08 8:38:24AM
Well, listen guys... I don't want to get into personal issues here, but I don't think I deserved $800,000 for the time spent in Iraq. I am perfectly humbled and O.K. with what I got. I just wanted to illustrate that I'm not saying Tim deserves the money because I come from money and I want others to have money.

I'm coming up in the amateur world of fighting right now. The only other time I can think of when I sacrificed so much was basic training and my time in Iraq. I work too much, sleep too little, am sore too much, spend too much money on remedies and supplements, etc. etc. I am not foolish enough to think that Tim Sylvia didn't do the same thing. Or any other fighter out there, really. There are few that are naturally gifted like you talk about- one being BJ Penn.

I won't ever reach Tim Sylvia's level I'm sure, but hey.. I'm out there putting in work and PAYING to do it. I have mad respect for people like Tim Sylvia because he pioneered the sport. We're talking about the numbers today, but what was he making when he first started fighting? Loop jack shit, I'm sure. Just like the rest of us up and coming guys. Matter of fact I'd bet he was LOSING money just like the rest of us. I work 50 hrs a week at two jobs, go to school full time, and train MMA every chance I can get. When my shin pads rip, mouth piece breaks, gloves rip or shorts rip I have to analyze every little bit of my finances just to make sure I can afford replacing them. When I enter a tournament it costs me money to fly out there, get a hotel, and to even participate in the tournament. I'm not even the worst story. There's guys I know that sleep in their cars or work twice as much as I do.

Tim Sylvia is no different than the rest of us- he came up the same way. As a matter of fact he came up when it was even more difficult. He'd had 16 fights in smaller orgs probably eating Beanie weenies on a regular basis just to get by.

Fine- you don't like his style. But you can never say he hasn't put in the work or that he isn't a skilled fighter. If all he uses is his size and reach then every 6'8 270 lb guy could be a UFC champion and you'd see a lot more 6'8 270 lb. guys in the UFC. You can think you know, but straight up you DON'T know. Because from the sounds of it you guys don't know what the sacrifice is about. You just sit back, drink your haterade and bash on one of the world's top fighters because you don't like him. Just remember he helped make this sport you love what it is. You don't have to like him, but you should analyze the fact that in a way you do owe him some respect. I personally feel that 28mil a year for a baseball player is a bit much, but 800k for a top 10 fighter? No way. I think it's right on target.
zephead
7/23/08 10:52:07AM

Posted by Jackelope

Well, listen guys... I don't want to get into personal issues here, but I don't think I deserved $800,000 for the time spent in Iraq. I am perfectly humbled and O.K. with what I got. I just wanted to illustrate that I'm not saying Tim deserves the money because I come from money and I want others to have money.

I'm coming up in the amateur world of fighting right now. The only other time I can think of when I sacrificed so much was basic training and my time in Iraq. I work too much, sleep too little, am sore too much, spend too much money on remedies and supplements, etc. etc. I am not foolish enough to think that Tim Sylvia didn't do the same thing. Or any other fighter out there, really. There are few that are naturally gifted like you talk about- one being BJ Penn.

I won't ever reach Tim Sylvia's level I'm sure, but hey.. I'm out there putting in work and PAYING to do it. I have mad respect for people like Tim Sylvia because he pioneered the sport. We're talking about the numbers today, but what was he making when he first started fighting? Loop jack shit, I'm sure. Just like the rest of us up and coming guys. Matter of fact I'd bet he was LOSING money just like the rest of us. I work 50 hrs a week at two jobs, go to school full time, and train MMA every chance I can get. When my shin pads rip, mouth piece breaks, gloves rip or shorts rip I have to analyze every little bit of my finances just to make sure I can afford replacing them. When I enter a tournament it costs me money to fly out there, get a hotel, and to even participate in the tournament. I'm not even the worst story. There's guys I know that sleep in their cars or work twice as much as I do.

Tim Sylvia is no different than the rest of us- he came up the same way. As a matter of fact he came up when it was even more difficult. He'd had 16 fights in smaller orgs probably eating Beanie weenies on a regular basis just to get by.

Fine- you don't like his style. But you can never say he hasn't put in the work or that he isn't a skilled fighter. If all he uses is his size and reach then every 6'8 270 lb guy could be a UFC champion and you'd see a lot more 6'8 270 lb. guys in the UFC. You can think you know, but straight up you DON'T know. Because from the sounds of it you guys don't know what the sacrifice is about. You just sit back, drink your haterade and bash on one of the world's top fighters because you don't like him. Just remember he helped make this sport you love what it is. You don't have to like him, but you should analyze the fact that in a way you do owe him some respect. I personally feel that 28mil a year for a baseball player is a bit much, but 800k for a top 10 fighter? No way. I think it's right on target.




Great post. I'd propr but gotta spread the love
jkdskinhead
7/23/08 3:48:22PM
As for Tim making nothing when he was comming up in the sport.. thats exactly what im saying.. they should be paying the smaller guys more fairly before giving the big guys enough dough to blow their noses on. It just good for the sport.. the more people you have that can afford to train the more qualty athletes you will produce. As I said, a big company like Zuffa, could get a monthly tournamanet going on cable tv or something. Pay fighters decently, and add more talent to the sport and grow their ppv. Right now they have a reality show thats mostly for guys that used to be on top, or already on their way to the top.. they have nothing for guys that are trying to break onto the scene, and are making 100$ a fight.

Once again people calling me a hater, and saying I dont like Tim.. Wow never said that. Just because we dont think any athelete should make 800,000 for one event all the sudden we hate Tim Sylvia? And as I said before Tim spent alot of hours in the gym.. no I dont think every guy at that size could make it to his level, because most people dont train that hard. Im saying Tim wasnt born as a naturally gidted fighter, he trained alot to get there.

People need to quite jumping down peoples throats with the fighter bashing thing. No one is fighter bashing here.. but some of you are being very prejudice and jumping to conclusions. Dont accuse people of fighter bashing.. thats just bashing other members.

All im saying is no fighter should make 800,000 a fight.. How does that mean I dislike Tim Sylvia? And even if I or someone else says they dont think Tim Sylvia specifically deserves 800,000.. that would hardly be fighter bashing. I really dont see that at all though, I see people saying either A: Some of the other fighters should earn more money, or B: Fighters shouldnt make that much money.

Quit jumping on peoples nuts and falsly accusing them.
ko-kbo130
7/23/08 6:05:13PM

Posted by jkdskinhead

As for Tim making nothing when he was comming up in the sport.. thats exactly what im saying.. they should be paying the smaller guys more fairly before giving the big guys enough dough to blow their noses on. It just good for the sport.. the more people you have that can afford to train the more qualty athletes you will produce. As I said, a big company like Zuffa, could get a monthly tournamanet going on cable tv or something. Pay fighters decently, and add more talent to the sport and grow their ppv. Right now they have a reality show thats mostly for guys that used to be on top, or already on their way to the top.. they have nothing for guys that are trying to break onto the scene, and are making 100$ a fight.

Once again people calling me a hater, and saying I dont like Tim.. Wow never said that. Just because we dont think any athelete should make 800,000 for one event all the sudden we hate Tim Sylvia? And as I said before Tim spent alot of hours in the gym.. no I dont think every guy at that size could make it to his level, because most people dont train that hard. Im saying Tim wasnt born as a naturally gidted fighter, he trained alot to get there.

People need to quite jumping down peoples throats with the fighter bashing thing. No one is fighter bashing here.. but some of you are being very prejudice and jumping to conclusions. Dont accuse people of fighter bashing.. thats just bashing other members.

All im saying is no fighter should make 800,000 a fight.. How does that mean I dislike Tim Sylvia? And even if I or someone else says they dont think Tim Sylvia specifically deserves 800,000.. that would hardly be fighter bashing. I really dont see that at all though, I see people saying either A: Some of the other fighters should earn more money, or B: Fighters shouldnt make that much money.

Quit jumping on peoples nuts and falsly accusing them.


well i can asure Micheal Jordan wasny just born with the talent he has, or A-rod with his talent. everyone who is talented enough to be considered one of the best in the world had to put in hours and ours of back breaking training. The way Tim was paid was fine. he is one of the best HW in the world. why shouldnt he get paid the most? if you want your house built by a top construction company are you going to pay them as if they where a brand new company starting out? how about these entrepenuers who start business and end up making millions a year. do they not deserve the money? they put in all the hard work to make it there and can now sit back and enjoy. Tim breaks his ass. If he was bor with talent or not. for you to say he wasnt born with talent makes his achievements more special. Tim was getting paid big numbers because hes one of the best end of story.
jkdskinhead
7/23/08 9:51:40PM

Posted by ko-kbo130


Posted by jkdskinhead

As for Tim making nothing when he was comming up in the sport.. thats exactly what im saying.. they should be paying the smaller guys more fairly before giving the big guys enough dough to blow their noses on. It just good for the sport.. the more people you have that can afford to train the more qualty athletes you will produce. As I said, a big company like Zuffa, could get a monthly tournamanet going on cable tv or something. Pay fighters decently, and add more talent to the sport and grow their ppv. Right now they have a reality show thats mostly for guys that used to be on top, or already on their way to the top.. they have nothing for guys that are trying to break onto the scene, and are making 100$ a fight.

Once again people calling me a hater, and saying I dont like Tim.. Wow never said that. Just because we dont think any athelete should make 800,000 for one event all the sudden we hate Tim Sylvia? And as I said before Tim spent alot of hours in the gym.. no I dont think every guy at that size could make it to his level, because most people dont train that hard. Im saying Tim wasnt born as a naturally gidted fighter, he trained alot to get there.

People need to quite jumping down peoples throats with the fighter bashing thing. No one is fighter bashing here.. but some of you are being very prejudice and jumping to conclusions. Dont accuse people of fighter bashing.. thats just bashing other members.

All im saying is no fighter should make 800,000 a fight.. How does that mean I dislike Tim Sylvia? And even if I or someone else says they dont think Tim Sylvia specifically deserves 800,000.. that would hardly be fighter bashing. I really dont see that at all though, I see people saying either A: Some of the other fighters should earn more money, or B: Fighters shouldnt make that much money.

Quit jumping on peoples nuts and falsly accusing them.


well i can asure Micheal Jordan wasny just born with the talent he has, or A-rod with his talent. everyone who is talented enough to be considered one of the best in the world had to put in hours and ours of back breaking training. The way Tim was paid was fine. he is one of the best HW in the world. why shouldnt he get paid the most? if you want your house built by a top construction company are you going to pay them as if they where a brand new company starting out? how about these entrepenuers who start business and end up making millions a year. do they not deserve the money? they put in all the hard work to make it there and can now sit back and enjoy. Tim breaks his ass. If he was bor with talent or not. for you to say he wasnt born with talent makes his achievements more special. Tim was getting paid big numbers because hes one of the best end of story.



Exactly what im saying.. yea he worked hard to get to the top.. However what im also saying is that no athlete.. not just Tim Sylvia.. should make that much money. Michael Kordan shouldnt have amde as much as he did.. and most baseball players shouldnt be getting paid that much. I think making that much money, while other people work harder just to put food on the table is immoral. Tims job is harder, but there are harder jobs, that pay 40,000, and you risk your life. Im saying they should pay lesser known fighters more money. They are working hard too. 100,000 would be a fine cap, in any sport. The people that have raw talents and go the extra mile and become big stars of the sport can make millions in endorsements and sponsors, they dont need to be taking the cash from the other men working hard.
Buddharox
7/23/08 10:13:24PM
If you think they're being overpaid, then stop watching the sport. Every PPV, every t-shirt, etc... allows people to make that much money. Actors, musicians, atheletes all make that much because were all watching them. The pay goes up as the fanbase grows.

I agree that superstars and A-list actors make way too much, but that's how our society works. Nothing immoral about accepting more money for what you're doing.
Jackelope
7/23/08 10:54:13PM

Posted by jkdskinhead

As for Tim making nothing when he was comming up in the sport.. thats exactly what im saying.. they should be paying the smaller guys more fairly before giving the big guys enough dough to blow their noses on. It just good for the sport.. the more people you have that can afford to train the more qualty athletes you will produce. As I said, a big company like Zuffa, could get a monthly tournamanet going on cable tv or something. Pay fighters decently, and add more talent to the sport and grow their ppv. Right now they have a reality show thats mostly for guys that used to be on top, or already on their way to the top.. they have nothing for guys that are trying to break onto the scene, and are making 100$ a fight.

Once again people calling me a hater, and saying I dont like Tim.. Wow never said that. Just because we dont think any athelete should make 800,000 for one event all the sudden we hate Tim Sylvia? And as I said before Tim spent alot of hours in the gym.. no I dont think every guy at that size could make it to his level, because most people dont train that hard. Im saying Tim wasnt born as a naturally gidted fighter, he trained alot to get there.

People need to quite jumping down peoples throats with the fighter bashing thing. No one is fighter bashing here.. but some of you are being very prejudice and jumping to conclusions. Dont accuse people of fighter bashing.. thats just bashing other members.

All im saying is no fighter should make 800,000 a fight.. How does that mean I dislike Tim Sylvia? And even if I or someone else says they dont think Tim Sylvia specifically deserves 800,000.. that would hardly be fighter bashing. I really dont see that at all though, I see people saying either A: Some of the other fighters should earn more money, or B: Fighters shouldnt make that much money.

Quit jumping on peoples nuts and falsly accusing them.



I'm not saying you "hate" Tim Sylvia, I'm saying you're a "Hater". Like the dude at the club who gets mad cuz a guy brings home the hot chick. People would rather sit back and say "He doesn't deserve her" or "He doesn't deserve that" than they would go out and get their own. If you need me to tie the strings together- you're getting mad because someone is making money and you're not getting your PPV's for cheaper or they're not paying for small timer's way into the UFC. That's cool, you can have that opinion, I just think people get what they earn. The juice is worth the squeeze, ya know? Not only that a hard road weeds out the weak.

If people walked around handing out money to bums on the street they would still be bums because for the vast majority of them they don't know a thing about earning their keep.

As for Big_Timmy, yes I did call him out for fighter bashing. Because in his first couple posts he said things like-


This is appauling. He is a joke to most people

Give me $800,000 and i'll fight anyone in the world and put up a better fight than what Tim Sylvia did. Shit, give my $50 and i'll go in and fight anyone in the world.

would LOVE the chance to fight Tim Sylvia. And i'd do it for free. Shit, i'd take him on any street corner, cage, ring, yamma pit, tree top, circus tent, anywhere.

It bothers me that this guy who isnt that good a fighter gets paid $800,000

i just dont understand how Tim Sylvia is pulling in this cash when he hasnt even put up a fight for a long time now.




or should I pick through more than the 2 posts it took to pull all that out of?

Coincidentally the forum code of conduct states-


2. Blatant performer bashing (fighters, refs, etc) will not be tolerated.


Now, there's a small bit of a grey area because it's not like he's saying "Tim Sylvia is a fricken turd." But if you ask me saying that Tim Sylvia is a joke or that some keyboard warrior would put up a better fight than a professional fighter crosses that line.

I've been a member of this site since it pretty much first started. I've been called out for fighter bashing before when I said how disrespectful Babalu was choking out David Heath and then talking shit on the mic afterward. I took it in stride and said "roger" then stopped. I like this site a lot and even though I'm not a mod I jump right down people's throats when they bash on a fighter who is respectful of his opponent and gets his ass kicked. Because A) I respect what they're putting on the line. and B) I respect this site and want it to be filled with nothing but quality posters.

None of us know what it's like to face your fears by putting your skills on the line in front of millions of fans. To get smoked in 36 seconds is embarassing as hell, but it was against THE BEST HW in the world and arguably the best P4P fighter in the world.
jkdskinhead
7/23/08 10:56:28PM

Posted by Buddharox

If you think they're being overpaid, then stop watching the sport. Every PPV, every t-shirt, etc... allows people to make that much money. Actors, musicians, atheletes all make that much because were all watching them. The pay goes up as the fanbase grows.

I agree that superstars and A-list actors make way too much, but that's how our society works. Nothing immoral about accepting more money for what you're doing.



Thats like saying its not immoral to take drug money.. your making a profit while other people suffer.

And no I dont have to stop watching my favorite athletes.. I dont pay the fighters, and the fighters dont get to pick their pay. THe organzations write up the contracts and make the deals. The fighters may ask for more money, but the organizations get the final say.

I would never accept 1 million dollars a year.. never,, if someone gave me a million dollars a year.. i would take 80k a year, which is way more then I would ever need.. i would give some of that 80k to my family.. I would then use the rest of the money to help build up aid for starving schooless children.

How can anyone say taking more then you deserve is not immoral.. thats practically the definition of immoral. Doing something that hinders other people and benifits you, is the meaning of the word immoral. Thats exactly what you would be doing.
Buddharox
7/24/08 2:51:43AM
What the...?

How can you even compare a paycheck from a sport to drug money. Making money is not immoral.
jkdskinhead
7/24/08 3:02:21AM

Posted by Buddharox

What the...?

How can you even compare a paycheck from a sport to drug money. Making money is not immoral.



The comparison im making is, you are taking money from other people sufferings.. wow I thought I already explained the comparison.

Taking something you dont deserve is immoral.. Jed Pittman shows up for work 4 days a year and his underlings work 300 days a week and do all the work for him, but he makes 10x what they make, and hes payed on a governemnt check.. I guess this isnt immoral because hes working a legit job right?

Taking more than you need is called glutony.. Its just plain immoral. Once again maybe you should look up the definition of immoral.
Pookie
7/24/08 3:06:59AM

Posted by jkdskinhead


Posted by Buddharox

What the...?

How can you even compare a paycheck from a sport to drug money. Making money is not immoral.



The comparison im making is, you are taking money from other people sufferings.. wow I thought I already explained the comparison.

Taking something you dont deserve is immoral.. Jed Pittman shows up for work 4 days a year and his underlings work 300 days a week and do all the work for him, but he makes 10x what they make, and hes payed on a governemnt check.. I guess this isnt immoral because hes working a legit job right?

Taking more than you need is called glutony.. Its just plain immoral. Once again maybe you should look up the definition of immoral.



It would take communism to change something like this. And usually that doesnt pan out well for the country in the long run...

Why complain about something that can not be changed?

Buddharox
7/24/08 5:18:08AM
You throw out immoral way too loosely.

How old are you anyways? Not an insult, but you seem to be stuck in some wishy-washy world where everything should be fair.
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