Submission Artists

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box111574
11/11/07 1:39:17PM
Who do you guys think is the best submission artist of all time my vote would be for Big Nog. let me know.
jiujitsufreak74
11/11/07 1:49:56PM
Mark Hunt....Chiek Kongo...and...um...I'm going to have to go with KJ Noons as the best submission artist of all time
ohiostate1016
11/11/07 2:00:23PM
Still gotta say Royce...he didn't even think about striking, he just went in there trying to submit every single guy.
fullerene
11/11/07 2:11:00PM
I assume you mean the guy who gets subs in MMA. A guy like Marcelo Garcia is a better sub artist than any of the guys below, but he hasn't been able to show it MMA--at least not yet. It's tough to say who it would be for "all-time" since the competition level has gone up and you don't see dominant subs the way they used to be performed. Might seem like a cop out but I'll break it down by years

1993-1997
1. Rumino Sato
2. Royce Gracie
3. Rickson Gracie
4. Oleg Taktarov
5. Mario Sperry

1998-2002
1. Kazushi Sakuraba
2. Frank Shamrock
3. Carlos Newton
4. Jeremy Horn
5. Dennis Hallman

2003-2007
1. Big Nog (good pick)
2.Yoshida
3. Josh Barnett
4. BJ Penn
5. Hermes Franca
grappler0000
11/11/07 2:11:52PM

Posted by ohiostate1016

Still gotta say Royce...he didn't even think about striking, he just went in there trying to submit every single guy.



But he's not even the best Gracie to have fought.
fullerene
11/11/07 2:27:49PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ohiostate1016

Still gotta say Royce...he didn't even think about striking, he just went in there trying to submit every single guy.



But he's not even the best Gracie to have fought.


That's true, but I think he used subs in MMA as well as any of them. If you're talking just sub talent then there are different contests to determine that. Ricco might beat Big Nog in ADCC but it doesn't mean he can pull of the same subs in MMA. A guy like Arona was the #1 sub grappler in the world and he doesn't submit anyone.

I'm not saying there isn't an argument for Rickson or even Renzo, just that Royce can't be dismissed because he would lose to those guys.
hotrodttt
11/11/07 3:30:19PM
My vote would have to be for Aoki, he sets up all of his submissions up perfectly
grappler0000
11/11/07 5:48:57PM

Posted by fullerene


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ohiostate1016

Still gotta say Royce...he didn't even think about striking, he just went in there trying to submit every single guy.



But he's not even the best Gracie to have fought.


That's true, but I think he used subs in MMA as well as any of them. If you're talking just sub talent then there are different contests to determine that. Ricco might beat Big Nog in ADCC but it doesn't mean he can pull of the same subs in MMA. A guy like Arona was the #1 sub grappler in the world and he doesn't submit anyone.

I'm not saying there isn't an argument for Rickson or even Renzo, just that Royce can't be dismissed because he would lose to those guys.



I tend to agree with what you are saying, but still dont think Royce would be considered the best of the bunch. Shamrock was the only notable sub I remember from him...most of the people that he subbed really had no idea what a submission even was.
fullerene
11/11/07 6:13:24PM
^ Severn and Pardoel were great subs, too given that they were 260 pound grapplers. Hackney and Kimo weren't bad either as each of them was stronger, too.

The others I agree with--he was actually a better WRESTLER than any of those guys, as tough as that is to believe. He just closed the distance, took them off their feet and went to work. But Rickson was even worse--he could have beat most of his opponents in a wrestling or kickboxing match as well as being so much better at subs. Another reason why it's tough to compare guys back then and guys today.

But he had a great streak of wins and almost 100% of that was due to his grappling and most were finished in subs.
Taylor8766
11/11/07 9:37:24PM
Back in the early MMA:Royce Gracie
In today's MMA:BJ Penn
HulkRage
11/12/07 8:04:03AM
Sakuraba
Mastodon2
11/12/07 8:14:54AM
Big Nogueira, Sakuraba, Yoshida and Carlos Newton are all on my list.
atlas777
11/12/07 11:33:27AM
BJ Penn is a great submission guy but he doesnt use them often in MMA he has only used 2different types of submissions that won fights him 4 fights the rear naked choke 3 times which anyone in the world can slap on and an arm triangle once which even Kimo could tap someone one with,anyone could do those 2 submissions so in MMA i would say Big Nog would be the best BJ is great but he doesnt use them enough in MMA to be called the best submission guy in todays game
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