Are Steroids good for MMA?

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POLL: Agree or Disagree with article's argument?
Agree 21% (3)
Disagree 79% (11)
bjj1605
6/20/10 7:01:41PM
I just read an article in Ultimate MMA by Victor Jay that go me thinking and really bothered me. Here's the jist of his argument:

Overall: More fighters use steroids than not, and that is good for the sport.

Reason 1: Most steroids are used for recovery and intensity in training, not gaining muscle. This is good for the sport because it prevents fighters from getting injured and prolongs their career.

Reason 2: Steroids are everywhere and easily obtainable which means that it is fair because everyone has the opportunity to use them.

Reason 3: Marketable fighters make more money because people like to think fighters are part 'god'. Steroids improve fighter physique.

Conclusion: The fights in PRIDE FC were usually untested and everyone did steroids. They were more exciting and crowd pleasing.

Remember this is his argument, not mine.

What do you guys think? I train with some high level MMA fighters. UFC veterans Jeff Curran and Nate Mohr. WEC LW Contender Bart Palaszewski. Bellator Season 2 winner Pat Curran. None of them use steroids and nor does any other fighter from my gym, to my knowledge. Several of them are close friends and I would know.

Do you agree or disagree?
Bowen50
6/20/10 7:07:20PM
Steroids have 0 place in any sport in my opinion. It's cheating, end of story.
chokehead
6/20/10 7:24:59PM
No... no steroids. Absolutely none of it. No questions necessary.
Caesarrrr
6/20/10 8:25:57PM
I disagree to steroids, but society requests that athletes be in top shape, and have the most high performance, high entertainment performances they can have. If you place that mentality on a fighter, then you can't be upset when they turn to a drug that increases performances.

Until that changes, I won't condemn anyone for using them. Everyone is human, and can give into pressures.
postman
6/20/10 9:55:48PM
I have no problem with Steroids you still have to put the time in at the gym you still have to hit every postion thousands of times and when your injuried you can't do that. Since Steroids keep these fighters in the gym I'm all for it. They only have a small window to make the most of their careers who am to stand on a moral high horse and say "sorry about your luck buddy but that drug that can keep you working....well your not allowed to use it."
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 10:00:05PM

Posted by bjj1605

I just read an article in Ultimate MMA by Victor Jay that go me thinking and really bothered me. Here's the jist of his argument:

Overall: More fighters use steroids than not, and that is good for the sport.

Reason 1: Most steroids are used for recovery and intensity in training, not gaining muscle. This is good for the sport because it prevents fighters from getting injured and prolongs their career.

Reason 2: Steroids are everywhere and easily obtainable which means that it is fair because everyone has the opportunity to use them.

Reason 3: Marketable fighters make more money because people like to think fighters are part 'god'. Steroids improve fighter physique.

Conclusion: The fights in PRIDE FC were usually untested and everyone did steroids. They were more exciting and crowd pleasing.

Remember this is his argument, not mine.

What do you guys think? I train with some high level MMA fighters. UFC veterans Jeff Curran and Nate Mohr. WEC LW Contender Bart Palaszewski. Bellator Season 2 winner Pat Curran. None of them use steroids and nor does any other fighter from my gym, to my knowledge. Several of them are close friends and I would know.

Do you agree or disagree?



Absolute not. End of story. Any journalist that is writing something like this ought to be fired from any sport reporting job they have.

Exciting fights do not mean that they are safe for the fighters. Steroids ARE used for putting on muscle as well as rehabbing.

Cocaine and other drugs are easily obtainable and everywhere, that doesn't mean people should be doing them.

So, which is it Victor, steroids aren't for gaining muscle, or they improve fighters physique?

IMO, this guy is an idiot. He came up with the four WORST reasons to ever use steroids and, since there was no link and I haven't been able to see the article, I hope anyone that reads this and might be impressionable doesn't listen to this jackasses' advice. I can't even defend this article as a "devils advocate" to see what people think about steroids. It's in poor taste and, logically, poorly argued. to Victor Jay for even suggesting that steroids have a place in sports.
bjj1605
6/20/10 10:49:29PM
^^^^

I agree with you. Sorry there's no link but I couldn't find the article on line and I don't feel like scanning the whole magazine page. I can assure you though I did a really good job of summing up his arguments. I just left out the obvious bias, personal stories, claims of credentials, and insults to the opposing position. All of these were included in the original article.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 10:54:25PM
You're a quality poster. I trust that you did a good job summarizing and, to be honest, I'm glad you left out his sources to support his claims because I would have just been more infuriated. I fairly confident that anything you post will be accurate and that's why I felt comfortable responding as candidly as I did.

That guy is a complete douchebag and I SERIOUSLY hope that any impressionable kids out there don't read his article and begin a cycle because Victor Jay advocated them.
jae_1833
6/20/10 11:11:53PM
No steroids in professional sports....when you stop taking them your health rapidly declines regardless of time you spend in the gym etc....not only that but steroid users usually have more injuries (less recovery time sure) and mainly recieve those injuries in the major joints (knees, elbows, shoulders, hips) those injuries and especially multiple injuries tend to destroy a person when he hits sports retirement age (about 36ish) and cause them to have to take all kinds of pain killers that eventually even worsen their health that much more.
When it comes down to it, IMO, it's banned for some damn good reasons and it should stay banned.
Jackelope
6/22/10 1:11:34PM
Steroids for the purpose of recovery should be looked at and done under doctor's supervision, IMO. I've personally been prescribed steroid therapy before when I damaged my knee and they did wonders for me.

That being said, when I was much younger I also once abused steroids. I didn't know what the hell I was doing and I had crazy mood swings. I got in 3 fights in 2 days' time.

Anyways, IMO the answer isn't as simple as "yes" or "no". I know without a doubt that Shamrock was right when he said over 50% of fighters are using. That doesn't mean the rest should use, but they're truly a miracle drug that had a bad label placed upon them due to continuous abuse of them in the past and the olympics. Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger- he's still as healthy as a horse. Clearly they're not as devastating physically as some might suggest if they're done semi-responsibly. That is kind of a bad example, though, because he used them to increase performance. I think they should be used to recover from serious injury by greatly reducing the recovery time.

BlueSkiesBurn
6/22/10 3:18:34PM
Dr.'s supervision is one thing, Jackelope. If these guys had medical clearance we wouldn't be in this shitstorm. The fact is, they don't. These athletes, by and large, are using them as a performance enhancing tool. Only a handful of these athletes (Andy Petite) for medical reasons. Congress didn't investigate baseball because a boatload of athletes were being prescribed steroids for medical reasons.

Also, when I had my retina reattached they gave me steroids. I hated it. I could still notice the mood swings even on legally prescribed steroids. Matter of fact, I wound up destroying my PS2 because I threw my first interception of the season on NCAA 2010. Even medically prescribed steroids can have serious side effects, brother.
Caesarrrr
6/22/10 7:11:34PM
The problem is that drug testing isn't taken as seriously as it should be. Everyone would rather ignore the fact that people are passing these outdated steroid tests, and the commissions and other governing bodies are pleased to say "look, we're all clean!" What they should be doing, is looking at the fact there are barely any people failing tests these days, and wonder why. Why would MMA be any different from another sport? There should be blips on the radar, fighters who decide to try it once. They aren't all perfect. I say focus on testing, and actually catch people, instead of just condemning them without being able to prove it.
Jackelope
6/22/10 7:22:47PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Dr.'s supervision is one thing, Jackelope. If these guys had medical clearance we wouldn't be in this shitstorm. The fact is, they don't. These athletes, by and large, are using them as a performance enhancing tool. Only a handful of these athletes (Andy Petite) for medical reasons. Congress didn't investigate baseball because a boatload of athletes were being prescribed steroids for medical reasons.

Also, when I had my retina reattached they gave me steroids. I hated it. I could still notice the mood swings even on legally prescribed steroids. Matter of fact, I wound up destroying my PS2 because I threw my first interception of the season on NCAA 2010. Even medically prescribed steroids can have serious side effects, brother.



First of all-

I know the athletes are abusing. Never said I didn't. Please explain to me one area in which I skirted around that portion of the debate?

Second of all-

Your doctor should have pulled your prescription if you told him you were suffering mood swings. That's a side affect that some people have and some don't. On top of that I would like to know about what the prescription was, what route it was taken in, and what the dosage was for you to have those side affects. That's why I said in the first place "if it's done under doctor supervision." I'm well versed on the steroid debate. I've written several papers on the subject and it was the entire focus of a class I took. Not to mention my own personal experiences with them from a medical and abuse perspective. I didn't suffer any problems under medical supervision.

You cannot drop a blanket that was your single experience on the entire subject of debate. That's just vain and incredibly short sighted and I would expect much more from someone if we're to debate a subject intelligently. If the medical world did that then they would go around telling people they can't eat shellfish or peanuts because a portion of the population goes into anaphylactic shock when they do.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/22/10 8:38:20PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Dr.'s supervision is one thing, Jackelope. If these guys had medical clearance we wouldn't be in this shitstorm. The fact is, they don't. These athletes, by and large, are using them as a performance enhancing tool. Only a handful of these athletes (Andy Petite) for medical reasons. Congress didn't investigate baseball because a boatload of athletes were being prescribed steroids for medical reasons.

Also, when I had my retina reattached they gave me steroids. I hated it. I could still notice the mood swings even on legally prescribed steroids. Matter of fact, I wound up destroying my PS2 because I threw my first interception of the season on NCAA 2010. Even medically prescribed steroids can have serious side effects, brother.



First of all-

I know the athletes are abusing. Never said I didn't. Please explain to me one area in which I skirted around that portion of the debate?

Second of all-

Your doctor should have pulled your prescription if you told him you were suffering mood swings. That's a side affect that some people have and some don't. On top of that I would like to know about what the prescription was, what route it was taken in, and what the dosage was for you to have those side affects. That's why I said in the first place "if it's done under doctor supervision." I'm well versed on the steroid debate. I've written several papers on the subject and it was the entire focus of a class I took. Not to mention my own personal experiences with them from a medical and abuse perspective. I didn't suffer any problems under medical supervision.

You cannot drop a blanket that was your single experience on the entire subject of debate. That's just vain and incredibly short sighted and I would expect much more from someone if we're to debate a subject intelligently. If the medical world did that then they would go around telling people they can't eat shellfish or peanuts because a portion of the population goes into anaphylactic shock when they do.



You've got to stop jumping all over me, brother. I never said that you said all of those things. They were general statements with regard to the article and the argument I'm sure Victor Jay would make using your statement. Only the first sentence applied to you.

I will restate my original post in a different way. Under medical supervision is the only way athletes should be taking steroids. Approved by a legitimate doctor with the organization reserving the right to get a second and third opinion from an independent source. I agree with you, Jackelope.

That being said, I don't feel that's the the direction Victor Jay was taking this article. He was clearly advocating steroid usage of the illegal kind. I would not, and I would hope that you will in the future consider this, ever trash a medically proven method of ensuring health and rehabilitation. I also wouldn't ever make a blanket statement regarding an issue of this caliber.

My statement of medically prescribed steroids still being harmful was more of an anecdote rather than me trying to make a blanket statement. All I was saying is that, even then, it can happen. I should have added that it should be VERY closely monitored even under those circumstances. I actually agree with steroids as prescribed by a legitimate doctors whose patients HEALTH is his top priority. The problem is that doctors in general are not using these things for health. It's just a statement being made, not me trashing your argument.

To answer your question my prescription was 20mg of Prednisone 4x daily. He did take me off of them but not before I stopped using the prescription myself. I noticed the changes and quit taking it.

I'm sorry if you thought I was trashing your statement. I should have hit enter and separated my statements but I was in a rush to get to school and just wanted to comment on the subject. Give me the benefit of the doubt next time, I usually do with others. You'll know when I'm telling someone why they are wrong.
mshalosky
6/24/10 9:49:49AM
Steroids can definetely be a good thing. The problem is if they made them legal for fighters to use the sport would be looked at like the WWE or WWF. Sure it would be entertaining but at the end of the day how could MMA ever be taken seriously? I beleive steriods should be legal for inhanced healing and for reasons like that but, if that happened people would abuse it. In a perfect world steriods could be used in a fair prescribed amount but, with the drive to be the best fighters would cheat this. IMO steriods can be a good thing but shouldn't be allowed in sports. As for over 50 percent of fighters using steriods I dont beleive it. Definetely in Japan but, I think it is probably more like 30 percent or lower in America..
bjj1605
6/30/10 2:40:19AM

Posted by mshalosky

Steroids can definetely be a good thing. The problem is if they made them legal for fighters to use the sport would be looked at like the WWE or WWF. Sure it would be entertaining but at the end of the day how could MMA ever be taken seriously? I beleive steriods should be legal for inhanced healing and for reasons like that but, if that happened people would abuse it. In a perfect world steriods could be used in a fair prescribed amount but, with the drive to be the best fighters would cheat this. IMO steriods can be a good thing but shouldn't be allowed in sports. As for over 50 percent of fighters using steriods I dont beleive it. Definetely in Japan but, I think it is probably more like 30 percent or lower in America..



The author actually claimed he could count on one hand the number of professional fighters in the top orgs that don't use them.
Pookie
6/30/10 3:22:06AM
That article is full of inductive logic, its conclusions arent logical when you consider the premise.

But as too steroids... I honestly dont care. Your diminishing you're life expectancy and your functioning ability when you get older. If the Risk is worth the Reward for you, than take it.

If this job feeds your family, its your responsibility to put them first. If you feel steroids help you do that, then by all means... its your perogative. Now sure, we might not look at them the same way as other non roided fighters in the annals of history... but who cares. This is your way of putting a roof over your kids head.

You may never be viewed as the best, because of the cheating, but if thats the last thing on your mind... thats probably a good thing for those who you love.
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