Sparring?

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dxpaintball8000
10/28/08 7:57:54AM
I have a couple of questions about sparring. I've had a couple of boxing trainers and one of them said that you should only use half of your power when you spar and I had another say that you just go full strength. The gym where people were going full strength seemed kinda chaotic because people were being KO'd and busting their noses just from sparring. Is it normal to spar full force??

Another question I had was about muay thai training. Is it usual to use elbows and knees while sparring? It would seem kind of dangerous to me
cmb19932
10/28/08 8:25:31AM
in sparing i never go full speed its way to much risk of getting hurt or hurting some one in boxing as for your other question i am not into muay thai so i cant help at all
Jackelope
10/28/08 8:43:02AM
Our rule in sparring is usually 70-80% and that's harder than most gyms I've been at.

As for elbows- definitely not in sparring unless you feel like getting cut.

For knees- As long as shin guards and volleyball knee pads are worn it should be cool, just take some off the top (like 50-55% knees)

The main thing is to trust your sparring partners and don't get caught up in an emotional brawl. When you're new it's very important to have a coach supervising to keep control of the pace and to coach you.

People getting KO'd and busting their noses in sparring is something that will happen occasionally, but if it's happening often then it is out of control IMO. Sparring is for application of technique in a real scenario, not knocking the other guy out. If anything the goal should be to help the other guy get better. How hard is it to maintain your speed but take 20% off? I've never KO'd someone in practice and that's a fact I'm proud of. I'd like to think I'm a trustworthy sparring partner.
loonytnt
10/28/08 9:52:01AM
i go 30% in the gym, if you go any harder its not smart, 30% you can learn, if you are gettin ready for a fight you bring it up but imo 30% is the best learnin speed
4u2nv
10/28/08 10:15:26AM
I'm a LHW and i always go about 40%-50% tops. Now like someone else I pride myself on the fact that I've never knocked someone out or hurt them badly unless its on a clean shot or a nice combo. But I have noticed I'm not getting any better and the other guys going 70%-90% are starting to tool me around. So at some point u need to turn on the juice i believe and maybe spar at 60%-70% bc thats the pace that maybe set and u need to punch and kick with some force and speed rather then totally relaxed and thinking to much. Bc soon u'll be come relaxed and natural at 70% and so on.... this is all just my .02
Rush
10/28/08 10:49:17AM

Posted by 4u2nv

I'm a LHW and i always go about 40%-50% tops. Now like someone else I pride myself on the fact that I've never knocked someone out or hurt them badly unless its on a clean shot or a nice combo. But I have noticed I'm not getting any better and the other guys going 70%-90% are starting to tool me around. So at some point u need to turn on the juice i believe and maybe spar at 60%-70% bc thats the pace that maybe set and u need to punch and kick with some force and speed rather then totally relaxed and thinking to much. Bc soon u'll be come relaxed and natural at 70% and so on.... this is all just my .02




Are they tooling you because they are going 70% and you are going 40-50% or are they actually better than you given equivalent intensity levels?

If it's the former, I wouldn't worry about it. I've never done sparring, but in grappling the guys that go at a higher intensity usually have poor technique because they are relying on their strength and intensity rather than technique.

Aaronno9
10/28/08 11:19:15AM
Where i train the amateurs and noobs dont spar very intensely at all. Sometimes we have to pick it up at little, but never to the point where you could hurt your partner. You want them to beable to feel it though. Its kinda ineffective general sparring with no intensity, becouse theirs no motivation to work on your defence if you know your not going to feel getting hit. The semi pros and pros go alot harder though. Its pretty much 100% for the guys who are training for a fight and doing 3 minute rounds with everybody.
postman
10/28/08 11:19:41AM
The rule in my gym is don't hit anyone harder then you would want hit. Also if you feel like you are taking too much abuse tell your partner to tone it down. It works but of course you have some guys that are too proud to say anything so I just know who they are and keep a nice pace with them.

As for knees and elbows we are not allowed to throw them unless we have pads on and we tone them way down and we were the full face headgear with the cage on them. Usually when the match hits the ground once postion is gained then we stop and take the head gear off but no elbow on the ground.
Also there are only a few of us that are allowed to work knees and elbows due to it being a new gym and there are alot of guys in their first few months of training.
Rush
10/28/08 11:46:38AM

Posted by Aaronno9

Its kinda ineffective general sparring with no intensity, becouse theirs no motivation to work on your defence if you know your not going to feel getting hit.




I don't totally agree with this. I think it depends on the mind set of the person sparring.

If I were sparring, I would be even more aware of what could be a damaging punch because my philosophy is move and block not to get hit, rather than allow my partner to pepper me with punches, hoping I can take them to land that one big punch.

I mean, not working defense because you wont get hurt is similar to not improving your ground work positioning because you can muscle out of a submission.

To me those types of philosophies will only hold people back in their training.
Aaronno9
10/28/08 11:58:47AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by Aaronno9

Its kinda ineffective general sparring with no intensity, becouse theirs no motivation to work on your defence if you know your not going to feel getting hit.




I don't totally agree with this. I think it depends on the mind set of the person sparring.

If I were sparring, I would be even more aware of what could be a damaging punch because my philosophy is move and block not to get hit, rather than allow my partner to pepper me with punches, hoping I can take them to land that one big punch.

I mean, not working defense because you wont get hurt is similar to not improving your ground work positioning because you can muscle out of a submission.

To me those types of philosophies will only hold people back in their training.



Yeah i meant to say that was just for me personally..... Ive only been training for like 2 months now with guys who have been training for along time, so i get wooped all the time, and i really think its helped improve my defence to a reasonable level. Early on i found myself dropping my hands constantly, after taking a few big hits early on, i rarely drop em now.
bayonetxwork
10/28/08 1:35:27PM
Normally like 80% where you go full speed, but not full power. This allows you to simulate the real fight scenarios without actually following through all the way on your punches and what not leading to KO's, breaks, etc.
fullerene
10/28/08 3:25:46PM
Good answers so far. A few additional points:

You have to vary your intensity level depending on who you are sparring with. If it is somebody smaller or less expeirenced you want to make sure they don't get hurt or even just bullied into a defensive shell. If it's somebody bigger or more experienced than you then you can let loose a bit more.

You have to vary your intensity level depending on where you and your opponent are in your training cycle. Sometimes you are being asked to help prep somebody for a fight and they or their trainer may outright ask you to "put it on them" to get them ready. Like above, this may be especially true if it's somebody bigger or better who can't find people to push him. If you're coming off an injury, haven't been training regularly or are nearing a fight and want to avoid getting cut or hurt then this trumps everything and you should not be sparring hard and I would stop any sparring where your opponent doesn't respect this.

My general rule with any type of sparring or rolling/rondori is that you and your opponent should see positive results for good work and negative results for bad habits. This is largely the responsibility of the better fighter, but if a slower, worse opponent throws his best combination and you move out of the way he doesn't know whether he threw it right or not. On the other hand if he flicks out a lazy jab and you move your forehead to meet it every time he's not going to see any reason to change what he's doing.
Jackelope
10/28/08 5:58:27PM

Posted by fullerene



You have to vary your intensity level depending on where you and your opponent are in your training cycle. Sometimes you are being asked to help prep somebody for a fight and they or their trainer may outright ask you to "put it on them" to get them ready. Like above, this may be especially true if it's somebody bigger or better who can't find people to push him. If you're coming off an injury, haven't been training regularly or are nearing a fight and want to avoid getting cut or hurt then this trumps everything and you should not be sparring hard and I would stop any sparring where your opponent doesn't respect this.




That's a good point.

Also- one thing I'll add about my camp is that we have a lot of pro fighters and we share a pretty good success rate for no injuries before fights and good results come fight time. Usually a month until two weeks out we pour it on pretty hard and then in the last 2 weeks it's toned down to avoid injuries and focus on the gameplan/techniques.

I ALWAYS tell guys if I have any worries before we get into sparring. I'll tell them "Hey man, I got this cut last month so take it easy on my left eye" or "My right shoulder is a bit sore so if you get a kimura on me on that shoulder don't torque it too hard" or whatever the case may be. I just let the guys know where I stand, and then they let me know where they stand on injuries and whatnot. I find that most guys are very receptive to that kind of information and they'll follow through with taking it easy on certain areas of your body when you tell them that stuff. Just be certain you're not sandbagging it and that you're still getting in quality training.

Another thing- with any kind of leg lock I always suggest to people to grab a hold of the submission, twist it a teeny tiny bit, then let your partner know you have it on them and then let them go. I never suggest going above 50% on any kind of leg lock in the gym since the knees and ankles are incredibly susceptible to injury and in the case of the knee you may not feel the damage until it's already done.
Wolfenstein
10/28/08 6:09:14PM
I've always used different levels of sparring. Like hey we're going to do some light sparring (40-50%) or we're going to do some heavy sparring (about 80%). Sometimes towards the end of a round my trainer would call out the time and I'd turn it up for a bit.

Either way in sparring I usually pull my punches a little bit, but sometimes you need that 100% level of sparring so you don't grow into the habit of pulling yourpunches, because seriously it does happen.

Communication with your sparring partner is probably the most important thing. You should both be on the same page so one guy isn't going all out and the other guy is going 50%. After a while of training with the same partners you'll get a feel for when they want to turn it on and when you should keep it light.
artofdefense
10/29/08 9:06:18AM

Posted by Jackelope

Our rule in sparring is usually 70-80% and that's harder than most gyms I've been at.

As for elbows- definitely not in sparring unless you feel like getting cut.

For knees- As long as shin guards and volleyball knee pads are worn it should be cool, just take some off the top (like 50-55% knees)

The main thing is to trust your sparring partners and don't get caught up in an emotional brawl. When you're new it's very important to have a coach supervising to keep control of the pace and to coach you.

People getting KO'd and busting their noses in sparring is something that will happen occasionally, but if it's happening often then it is out of control IMO. Sparring is for application of technique in a real scenario, not knocking the other guy out. If anything the goal should be to help the other guy get better. How hard is it to maintain your speed but take 20% off? I've never KO'd someone in practice and that's a fact I'm proud of. I'd like to think I'm a trustworthy sparring partner.



Elbows and knees are fine, as long as you train like a real Muay Thai fighter and not a farang who can turn his shin over. Muay Thai should almost always be 80% speed with NO power. Touch sparring. Anyone who thinks full speed sparring is better is kidding themselves. Hard sparring is only good for long lay offs between fights, to keep you used to getting hit.

In my gym, unless we are specifically doing hard boxing or such, a punch hard enough to snap someone's head back could get you kicked in the face. It's all about respect baby.
haggiswashere
11/6/08 3:40:07AM
i was the guy that hit to hard when i was doing shaolin chu an fa (skip it if you ever consider doing it) i could not stand it. i cannot learn if im worried about hitting the other guy too hard and i was always being ridiculous like only hitting about 10- to 25 % and people would still whine. i want a gym where i will get my @$$ kicked you know? and i know there are plenty its just finding the right one that is my problem.
Tizzy
11/9/08 10:16:35AM
We have a few different types of sparring. Generally, you don't want to hammer on guys in training until they get closer to the fight. You want to use sparring to work technique in a more real-like situation without paying the ultimate price. Fighters need to know they were wrong without being hurt so that they can correct it immediately.

It's good to remember that you don't want to sacrifice speed so you shouldn't compromise that but you can moderate the power.



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