How do you solve a problem like Machida?

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POLL: What would you consider machidas style?
Boring 33% (39)
Exciting 67% (79)
Sam_Rothstein
5/26/08 7:03:02PM
Lyoto Machida posted his 13th straight career victory -- and his fifth win in the UFC -- with Saturday's UFC 84 unanimous decision over former title-older Tito Ortiz.

But is his latest victory really worth celebrating? Does he now deserve a title shot or a fight with another top contender?

It depends on whom you're asking.


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jomatty
5/26/08 7:13:47PM
i think of mma as a sport and if you are a great competitor then you deserve to compete against other great competitors. machida has proven he deserves to be fighting the other top guys
dannyfrank
5/26/08 7:23:29PM
machida has a fighting style that works for him, even if some do believe it to be "boring." it's better for him to have a technical fight and win than to come into the fight, guns blazing, and get knocked out. he has every right to go for a title shot. even if his style isn't exciting, he has proved that it works many times.
seanfu
5/26/08 7:23:34PM
A fighter with a strong fearless chin and controlled explosive flurrys.
gartface
5/26/08 7:39:06PM
MMA needs a good Karate fighter, and Machida is amazing. That knee to Tito's liver almost knocked him out.
JimiMak
5/26/08 7:49:52PM
There's a loud minority against him, but he puts on a great fight. Making Tito Ortuz look that bad is certainly something to celebrate. He beat him up. He outpointed him. He controlled the pace and distance. And he made sure that a top notch wrestler couldn't get him down. He took Tito down easily when he decided to. He almost pounded him out twice. He got out of an tight triangle. What didn't he do besides get a ko? He should get a title shot, but I don't think I would bet against him right now no matter who he fights. He also has a great ground game that we just don't see much cuz he doesn't need to use it.
wapttn
5/26/08 7:53:36PM
i'm the type of fan who can enjoy a techical fight whether its standing or on the ground, whether its wrestling, jj, judo, boxing, muay thai... like footwork, transitions, head movement, its all fun to watch when you understand it. My problem with machida is the same problem that i've had with a few other fighters... he doesnt fight to win, he fights not to lose.

The goal of every fighter when entering the fight is to finish the fight. The reason why we have a point system and limited rounds is because there's only so long that a fighter's cardio can last, and theres only so long we wanna see them fight for.

With the exception of machida's fortunate or incredibly well placed knee (pretty sure that was a liver shot or a broken rib), machida has trouble creating effective offense in a fight. He has an amazing ability to elude his opponents offense during a fight, but his own offense is seriously lacking.

The reason why I dont think he deserves a title shot is because everyone knows what machida's game plan is. Machida evades his opponent and makes them create the offense and once he's figured out the timing, he sneaks in a shot here and there when he's confident that he wont get hit. How do you defeat this? dont create offense. You wanna throw machida out of his element, let him come to you... will he? who knows, but you risk that in a title fight, two fighters who wont engage.. so get him a title shot? not unless you wanna see 5 rounds of starnes vs starnes.

I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off
three_days_of_grey
5/26/08 7:58:28PM
I really find it diffiuclt to see how anyone would find Machida boring. I know Machida's witchcraft style of 'stick and move' is relatively new to the world of combat sports, but after he sacrifices some chickens, he works a near flawless strategy. Ortiz is a former champion and was unable to do anything against Machida, with the exception of that sub attempt that Machida worked out of. What I find less entertaining are the 36 seconds KO's from simply standing and slugging away.
I don't know if the UFC will have trouble marketing Machida as I don't feel they have done that much anyway. So they may get a good response if they throw some promotional dollars his way. I do believe that since Machida is softspoken and unassuming that his matches would almost have to have a good-vs-evil vibe to them, like the Ortiz fight. Or maybe that's just how I felt since I don't care for Ortiz.

-OUT-

I wanted to add that I feel the octagon is a major assist in Machida's gameplan as the shape proves difficult for cutting off the ring.
bigbubbano23
5/26/08 8:15:11PM
you give him some one who can catch him.
Sam_Rothstein
5/26/08 8:20:12PM

Posted by wapttn

i'm the type of fan who can enjoy a techical fight whether its standing or on the ground, whether its wrestling, jj, judo, boxing, muay thai... like footwork, transitions, head movement, its all fun to watch when you understand it. My problem with machida is the same problem that i've had with a few other fighters... he doesnt fight to win, he fights not to lose.

The goal of every fighter when entering the fight is to finish the fight. The reason why we have a point system and limited rounds is because there's only so long that a fighter's cardio can last, and theres only so long we wanna see them fight for.

With the exception of machida's fortunate or incredibly well placed knee (pretty sure that was a liver shot or a broken rib), machida has trouble creating effective offense in a fight. He has an amazing ability to elude his opponents offense during a fight, but his own offense is seriously lacking.

The reason why I dont think he deserves a title shot is because everyone knows what machida's game plan is. Machida evades his opponent and makes them create the offense and once he's figured out the timing, he sneaks in a shot here and there when he's confident that he wont get hit. How do you defeat this? dont create offense. You wanna throw machida out of his element, let him come to you... will he? who knows, but you risk that in a title fight, two fighters who wont engage.. so get him a title shot? not unless you wanna see 5 rounds of starnes vs starnes.

I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off




I agree. People always mention how machida has stopped franklin, bonnar, sokoudjou. Which is a very impressive list I will say myself. The only thing is if you watch those fights, every one of those guys pushed the pace and were the ones engaging while machida countered and tee'd off. Even dmitri wanderley pushed the pace against him.

I would like to see how he would do against another guy who can stay in the pocket and tee off on you. Who better right now besides chuck liddell? Last year I would of picked machida to win because I would not imagine liddell being able to stay in the pocket and wait for the fighter to come to him, basically because he wanted to be a croud pleaser.

After seeing chuck go 3 rounds with silva, i think he could get back to his old pre-title ways and beat machida with a similar style to what he used against vitor belfort or jeff monson.

loller90278
5/26/08 9:05:19PM
i dont get why everyone says hes boring. just because he's not aggressive does not mean he's boring. he has DROPPED every single opponent that he's faced. he knocked down franklin before he KO'd him, he knocked down Tito with that knee, he knocked down sokoudjou in the 2nd round and tried to finish it, knocked down sam hogar.. i mean, name me one person who's done all that, and is still undefeated.

Mchubb316
5/26/08 9:24:42PM
I think Machida is a low risk fighter. He doesn't put him in situations where he can get caught by a fluke KO. He picks his spots carefully and calculates when to attack and then does it and gets out. This is why he scores well, he takes little damage and lands a a high percentage of strikes. People may call this boring, but this is his style. Like it or not it is effective, and he wins fights. I think someone who can push the action, and not be afraid of getting hit, and has a hard chin could pose a threat to Machida.
ncordless
5/26/08 9:40:46PM

Posted by Sam_Rothstein


Posted by wapttn

i'm the type of fan who can enjoy a techical fight whether its standing or on the ground, whether its wrestling, jj, judo, boxing, muay thai... like footwork, transitions, head movement, its all fun to watch when you understand it. My problem with machida is the same problem that i've had with a few other fighters... he doesnt fight to win, he fights not to lose.

The goal of every fighter when entering the fight is to finish the fight. The reason why we have a point system and limited rounds is because there's only so long that a fighter's cardio can last, and theres only so long we wanna see them fight for.

With the exception of machida's fortunate or incredibly well placed knee (pretty sure that was a liver shot or a broken rib), machida has trouble creating effective offense in a fight. He has an amazing ability to elude his opponents offense during a fight, but his own offense is seriously lacking.

The reason why I dont think he deserves a title shot is because everyone knows what machida's game plan is. Machida evades his opponent and makes them create the offense and once he's figured out the timing, he sneaks in a shot here and there when he's confident that he wont get hit. How do you defeat this? dont create offense. You wanna throw machida out of his element, let him come to you... will he? who knows, but you risk that in a title fight, two fighters who wont engage.. so get him a title shot? not unless you wanna see 5 rounds of starnes vs starnes.

I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off




I agree. People always mention how machida has stopped franklin, bonnar, sokoudjou. Which is a very impressive list I will say myself. The only thing is if you watch those fights, every one of those guys pushed the pace and were the ones engaging while machida countered and tee'd off. Even dmitri wanderley pushed the pace against him.

I would like to see how he would do against another guy who can stay in the pocket and tee off on you. Who better right now besides chuck liddell? Last year I would of picked machida to win because I would not imagine liddell being able to stay in the pocket and wait for the fighter to come to him, basically because he wanted to be a croud pleaser.

After seeing chuck go 3 rounds with silva, i think he could get back to his old pre-title ways and beat machida with a similar style to what he used against vitor belfort or jeff monson.




If people think that Machida's style is boring (I think it's interesting and innovative, but can lead to a pretty slow-paced fight), they are not going to want to watch Machida/Liddell. There could very well be whole rounds where they do nothing but circle each other and wait for the other to throw. I might be wrong, but I don't see Machida attacking Liddell and I don't see Liddell attacking Machida. Unless this is a five round fight I wouldn't expect to see much offense.

jgtribbett
5/26/08 9:41:28PM

Posted by gartface

MMA needs a good Karate fighter, and Machida is amazing. That knee to Tito's liver almost knocked him out.




yeah that was great.
i wanted tito to win.. but it was awsome.. and i think it'll take someone like wandy...
scpd400
5/26/08 10:18:56PM
I think Machida has proven himself as a great fighter. I think his style is exciting. For the other fighters to try and figur him out is great. He does not let his opponent draw him to their style of fighting instead nthey have to fight his style. He deserves every shot at the title but won't beat griffin
Raykill
5/26/08 10:22:44PM

Posted by Mchubb316

I think Machida is a low risk fighter. He doesn't put him in situations where he can get caught by a fluke KO. He picks his spots carefully and calculates when to attack and then does it and gets out. This is why he scores well, he takes little damage and lands a a high percentage of strikes. People may call this boring, but this is his style. Like it or not it is effective, and he wins fights. I think someone who can push the action, and not be afraid of getting hit, and has a hard chin could pose a threat to Machida.





I was betting on Tito, I thought he would want to go out on a win. I didnt know much about Machida. But I am on the bandwagon now. The guy is a smart fighter. Why stand there and get hit when you can hit you opponent and make him miss.
I have been waiting for something differant to come along for a while now.

I love the wrestling aspect of it, but everyone is into BJJ more now and even though its great to watch a tech match up I am getting board with that.

I want to see a judo throw where the guy ends up on the other side of the ring. I want to see Machida throw two kicks from both feet and hit the opponent twice before touching the ground again. That was awesome.

BORING NOT......
jakeiceman
5/26/08 10:57:20PM

Posted by wapttn



I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off




Couldnt have said it better myself. Machida is one of the best 205ers right now but I think that Liddell is a bad match for him. Liddell is an aggressive counter puncher (ha ha no I didnt make that term up) Liddell is great at luring people into him and picking the perfect moment to turn it on, I dont think he would go at him guns blazing and get caught like everyone one else. There would be a few stale moments where they would feel eachother out, but Liddell loves to please the croud so I couldnt imagine them dancing for 3 or 5 rounds. Also other than an insanely powerful bomb to the chin (Rampage) Liddell has an iron jaw, I dont think there is any way Machida could knock him out. I think Liddell would wait it out and choose when he wanted to put Machida on the canvas.

With all this said Machida looks great, boring as hell but its working for him. I would like to see Silva fight him next to see how he handles a hard headed guy who swings for the fences...I just cant say that I ever see machida being the champion, but hell I have been wrong many times before.
Technomage
5/26/08 11:19:22PM
I think that the best matchup for Machida right now would be Wanderlei Silva. Silva is clearly back after his knockout of Jardine and would pose a serious threat to Machida. We could also have Liddell vs Shogun and then winners of these 2 fights have a contender match.

Probably not going to happen but it's difficult to produce a clear contender at 205 with so many excellent fighters there right now.
JoeySteel
5/26/08 11:34:26PM
Machida is amazing. Feed him Chuck Liddell.He will eat him up.


I say the Liddell vs. Machida. or Ax Murderer, whatever.
Rashad Evans Vs. Jackson (after he beats Forrest)


Machida will be champ in a year's time.
AND I LOVE IT.

Sir_Karl
5/26/08 11:43:41PM
Machida is the only lightheavy who does deserve a title shot.
He will be the champ....for sure.
bojangalz
5/26/08 11:49:43PM
I'm not afraid to give Machida his props- He went out and beat Ortiz, just like the previous twelve guys unfortunate enough to go against him.

He's got a game plan and excecutes every time he steps in the cage. Wait for it...Wait for it...Wait for it... BOOM goes the dynomite!

This style isn't new to MMA at all. There's counter punchers all over the place. (Ala Chuck Liddell) Machida looks a little different pulling it off, I suspect its because of his karate backround. It works for him, and I won't knock that. But I think it's perfectly fair to call a fighter both technical and boring in the same breath.

I personally didn't enjoy Machida/Ortiz one bit. I though it was a boring fight. I'll tune in every time Machida fights, the guy is unbeaten for crying out loud. But his style of fighting is not one that you'll find me rooting for too often.
Shawn17
5/27/08 12:50:30AM
The casual fan doesnt understand his style. His style is mesmorizing and ghost like. Its very effective as we have seen and the fact that tito wasnt close at all to taking him down means the UFC LHW division is in trouble. This guy has the ability to beat anyone and is a complete fighter.
jakeiceman
5/27/08 1:03:33AM

Posted by Shawn17

The casual fan doesnt understand his style. His style is mesmorizing and ghost like. Its very effective as we have seen and the fact that tito wasnt close at all to taking him down means the UFC LHW division is in trouble. This guy has the ability to beat anyone and is a complete fighter.



I'm not a "casual fan" and I find his style very boring and not exactly mesmorizing....and he is about as ghostlike as a fart in the dark....but he is unbeaten so I guess that means he is the greatest....just like Rashad Evans!!
hotrodttt
5/27/08 1:33:27AM
I like Lyoto a lot, he Picks his shots just like Anderson Silva and Capitalizes on his Opponents mistakes. So, how do you solve his Puzzle, we learned an Agressive Fighter in Sokoudjou isn't the solution, The Wrestler in Tito couldn't get him down, and Rich Franklin's Stand Up had no Answer. I Think I was able to Pinpoint a little mistake in Lyoto's game. He was almost Submitted by Tito from Top, so could a BJJ Black Belt seal the deal ? It's very unlikely but I'd like to see a Little Nog type of Fighter Challenge Lyoto and see how he fairs.
Gipper
5/27/08 1:49:55AM
i think wand, chuck, shogun, thiago, forrest and rampage could all solve the problem i'm sure we'll find out
Kracker_Jap
5/27/08 3:08:41AM
To solve the Machida code all you need is Wandy...

The Problem is that there are lots of fighters that could solve the Wandy code, this is what makes the MMA scene so addictive....

Styles make Fights and Champions
dmfp
5/27/08 4:42:16AM
I would say that he is more defensive then ofensive.
That makes him boring.
A exiting fighter tryes to finish the fight, not just score points!
However I do belive Machida can beat any top ten 205pounder by decision.
whardin19
5/27/08 7:49:03AM
I can't really answer your poll question there. Because I don't really call his fights boring or exciting. I would call them good. The guy has major talent. I like his fights and I enjoy watching them. But was it exciting not really. The Wandy KO was exciting. But Lyoto's match was very good and I had no complaints with it. So I don't see why the guy doesn't deserve a title shot with one more solid win.
saemskin
5/27/08 8:43:07AM

Posted by Sam_Rothstein
I agree. People always mention how machida has stopped franklin, bonnar, sokoudjou. Which is a very impressive list I will say myself. The only thing is if you watch those fights, every one of those guys pushed the pace and were the ones engaging while machida countered and tee'd off. Even dmitri wanderley pushed the pace against him.

I would like to see how he would do against another guy who can stay in the pocket and tee off on you. Who better right now besides chuck liddell? Last year I would of picked machida to win because I would not imagine liddell being able to stay in the pocket and wait for the fighter to come to him, basically because he wanted to be a croud pleaser.

After seeing chuck go 3 rounds with silva, i think he could get back to his old pre-title ways and beat machida with a similar style to what he used against vitor belfort or jeff monson.



I'd rather see him fight a healthy Shogun.
I think we all know Chuck and Machida are both -relatively speaking- counter fighters. I think there would be alot of waiting in this match. Against Shogun though I think the similar differences in styles would make for an exciting battle that could go anywhwere.
gsquat
5/27/08 10:03:57AM
Of course he deserves a title shot. Rampage would have as hard a time as any with him. I cant think of anyone who could beat him right now.
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