Site updates: 4/12

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DoTheMMAth
4/12/07 1:31:55PM
Being that we are still in our initial beta season, in conjunction with the consideration of a couple months worth of PM's, site feedback contacts, and forum posts regarding our current scoring system, we have made some updates which were completed today.

In the past, you would receive points for a fight's ending details ONLY if you correctly guessed the round number and the correct fighter. This has been altered so that you receive points (and a corresponding prediction fantasy bankroll bonus) for the ending details if you correctly predict the winner REGARDLESS of whether or not you have selected the finishing round. Many felt that making this change would more accurately reflect the extent of a user's predictive powers and knowledge by rewarding players for everything they have correctly picked.


New point totals for a fight are as follows:

Predict winner - 5 points

Predict fight end time (if winner has been predicted correctly) - 2 points

Predict ending details (if winner has been predicted correctly) - 2 points

Bonus for getting all three of these correct - 2 more points

In an effort to "level the playing field" we have also listened to the numerous suggestions that asked for something to be done about the "hot bouts". We did not want to eliminate this all together (sorry to all those that wanted it eliminated), but we have adjusted things so that each event now only has 1 hot bout in it.

A big thank you to the LARGE number of folks that took the time to contact us with detailed suggestions and explanations. With the help of everyone in the community we hope to continually refine and improve the playground to make it the most enjoyable MMA pit stop on the web


EDIT: Please vote on this poll to help decide whether this new scoring system should be enacted for events that have already taken place.
Tamara
4/12/07 4:03:01PM
I don't agree with this at all. The point system that you had running should of been grandfathered in and not changed. Any changes made should of been from this date forward. AND exactly how did you decide what hot bouts you were going to remove from the fights that already were given points for?

Seems somewhat unfair. This LARGE number of people that complained I am assuming was the majority of the fight club members you have here. I think you should post the number of people that wanted the change vs. the number of people involved in your playground.
tepid55
4/12/07 4:04:15PM
I much prefer the new scoring system.
Tamara
4/12/07 4:14:04PM

Posted by tepid55

I much prefer the new scoring system.



Why?
MMA
4/12/07 4:17:33PM
Well, we can't please you all. I like the new system except for the hot bouts, I didn't realize so many people were complaining about this.
Manfred
4/12/07 4:22:13PM

Posted by MMA

Well, we can't please you all. I like the new system except for the hot bouts, I didn't realize so many people were complaining about this.


Agreed 100% I like the hot bouts too, but if the majority wanted less, that's fine. Keeps it more even if there is only one per event.
Tamara
4/12/07 4:23:31PM

Posted by MMA

Well, we can't please you all. I like the new system except for the hot bouts, I didn't realize so many people were complaining about this.



What's the number of complaints vs. the number of players?
DoTheMMAth
4/12/07 4:55:10PM
Between forum posts like this, PM's send directly to me, and folks using the feedback form we had a pretty big number of requests for change. I do apologize if these changes aren't to everyone's liking, we were attempting to listen to the voice of the community. It should be noted that the changes do not result in anyone losing any fantasy money. In fact, most everyone that has been around for a few events will have a more money in their account due to credit received for fights where they had the ending details correctly selected, but not the ending round. Granted we may wind up with a little more "scoring gridlock" and folks being closer in score, but hopefully over the course of 1 season (10 events) this effect won't be felt as much. All in all, this update gives more credit to those that have predicted more things correctly, with the end goal being to have the winner be the one whose knowledge coupled with powers of prediction net them the most correct points via their picks.

Regarding the hot bouts: we took the middle road by making it 1 hot bout per event. The consensus from those who wanted this feature removed or nerfed was "there's no way you can remain competitive regardless of how good you do in other picks if you don't get the hot bouts 100% nailed". To give an added bonus though, we made it so that for fights where you guess all 3 items correctly you will receive a points bonus. On cards with lots of heavy favorites, there may not always even be a 2nd bout that is higly contested (for example, Pride 33's 2nd hot bout was a 76% - 24% matchup).

The site is technically still in beta for now (as has been marked on the site header), we're in some uncharted waters here, we haven't even completed 1 season yet, and we're just trying to do what the users ask to make things as enjoyable as possible... so any patience you can spare us as we tweak things is appreciated
shawneth
4/12/07 5:01:32PM
I love the new scoring system. I was going to suggest it myself but i decided to keep my mouth shut. On the other hand, i liked the two hot bouts idea, it really seperates the people who chose correctly for those hard to pick fights.
Tamara
4/12/07 5:21:24PM
Mod said:

"Between forum posts like this, PM's send directly to me, and folks using the feedback form we had a pretty big number of requests for change. I do apologize if these changes aren't to everyone's liking, we were attempting to listen to the voice of the community."

So, ha no pun intended, Dothemmath and let us know the numbers. The voice of the community would be the majority of members you have. I want to know this.

The link to the post you had only had 3 pages of complaints or "signed petition" a handful of people.

I don't agree with making the changes in the middle of the season. Why not wait until a new season begins? Just does not seem right to change things up in the middle of the game and take points away from people.

shawneth
4/12/07 5:25:52PM

Posted by Tamara

Mod said:

"Between forum posts like this, PM's send directly to me, and folks using the feedback form we had a pretty big number of requests for change. I do apologize if these changes aren't to everyone's liking, we were attempting to listen to the voice of the community."

So, ha no pun intended, Dothemmath and let us know the numbers. The voice of the community would be the majority of members you have. I want to know this.

The link to the post you had only had 3 pages of complaints or "signed petition" a handful of people.

I don't agree with making the changes in the middle of the season. Why not wait until a new season begins? Just does not seem right to change things up in the middle of the game and take points away from people.





Im pretty sure that no points are going to be taken away. I think it only will apply to all of the upcomming events. Unless i missed something that i read.
shawneth
4/12/07 5:27:53PM
Sorry, i just looked up all of my event picks and the ppoint distibution has changed. Sorry for my previous comment.
Tamara
4/12/07 5:28:45PM
Go back and look over your picks history. They took away one hotbout where there was two and adjusted their points for the past events according to the new point system.
D-Boy
4/12/07 5:36:23PM
I don't mind it
CWall33
4/12/07 5:45:35PM

Posted by shawneth


Posted by Tamara

I don't agree with making the changes in the middle of the season. Why not wait until a new season begins? Just does not seem right to change things up in the middle of the game and take points away from people.





Im pretty sure that no points are going to be taken away. I think it only will apply to all of the upcomming events. Unless i missed something that i read.



They took points away from some, and gave extra points to others.
Within my fight camp, 2 people gained points, and 4 lost. 1 person lost a LOT of points.

I agree with the new system, but not in the middle of a season, and especially not retroactive to events that have already taken place.
illkornstar
4/12/07 5:53:39PM
well i dont really mind the change but i think the hot bouts should remain on each card only if the fight is close to the 50% window for each fighter.

this would really make people pick their sure pick and not just go with the picks that everyone else is picking. so if there are two or three fights that have an even matchup than we should be given something more than just the regular points given out for that fight. if that means three hot bouts than so be it, people are only complaining because they havent hit on them. you should not make any hot bouts if there are no 50/50 fights on the card, but i think we should still have them on every close fight that takes place on the card. these fights are what seperates the people that really know MMA and the cowards complaining about the hot bouts.
chiefwiggum
4/12/07 6:20:45PM
I like the idea of the new scoring system. I do have a huge problem with switching peoples points like you did. I think it is completely unfair to do what you did. It's a real shame that people were basically cheated. My only hope is with the growing popularity of MMA different websites will offer fantasy gaming. And before people start saying I'm just pissed off because it was not beneficial for me, I moved up about 50 spots overall. With that I step off my soapbox.
D-Boy
4/12/07 6:34:58PM
If the point system was how it is now at the start of the season would you have picked differently?

Probably not so this is what you would have got anyway and it's a fairer system
Tamara
4/12/07 6:56:08PM

Posted by D-Boy

If the point system was how it is now at the start of the season would you have picked differently?

Probably not so this is what you would have got anyway and it's a fairer system



Since you are talking hypothetically-let me use this analogy-
"IF" I am kicking your butt and you tap out from an armbar and two weeks later the NSAC changes the rules and says no armbars allowed, should that mean I lose my purse for kicking your butt due to an armbar????

The point is changing the rules in the middle of the game and retro-acting them!
Thus taking points away from people that at that time they deserved.

Tamara
4/12/07 7:01:23PM
Let me add - any changes to the scoring due to the websites discretion is fine by me. I have no problems with that as it is their gig. However, it should not be retroactive and should start at the beginning of a new season.
guru_of_grapple
4/12/07 7:16:23PM
Yeah, no way points from past events should have been deducted. That's bullshit in my opinion. I lost A LOT of points because of that. I would be okay if you wanted to change the rules for upcoming events, but you're basically punishing those of us who did a good job of guessing the hotly debated fights. I pretty much went from being ranked in the early 400's to the 500's. I was REALLY into it and all these changing the rules as you go crap has ruined it. **** that. I'm done with this bullshit site.
D-Boy
4/12/07 7:17:32PM

Posted by Tamara


Posted by D-Boy

If the point system was how it is now at the start of the season would you have picked differently?

Probably not so this is what you would have got anyway and it's a fairer system



Since you are talking hypothetically-let me use this analogy-
"IF" I am kicking your butt and you tap out from an armbar and two weeks later the NSAC changes the rules and says no armbars allowed, should that mean I lose my purse for kicking your butt due to an armbar????

The point is changing the rules in the middle of the game and retro-acting them!
Thus taking points away from people that at that time they deserved.



Totally different, if you are using this context all it would mean is your fight purse is reduced and you would keep your win as we still get points for our actions just not as many. Why should the system only be changed between rounds there's nothing we would have done differently had this other scoring system been in place at the start that would change the positons that we are in now. If the round started with these rules you would still have your same rank.

It's not like you wouldn't pick Monson over Fujita because it's no longer a hot bout (This is your armbar analogy)

P.S I would never lose to an armbar ;)
D-Boy
4/12/07 7:18:17PM

Posted by guru_of_grapple

Yeah, no way points from past events should have been deducted. That's bullshit in my opinion. I lost A LOT of points because of that. I would be okay if you wanted to change the rules for upcoming events, but you're basically punishing those of us who did a good job of guessing the hotly debated fights. I pretty much went from being ranked in the early 400's to the 500's. I was REALLY into it and all these changing the rules as you go crap has ruined it. **** that. I'm done with this bullshit site.



Bye :(
Tamara
4/12/07 7:25:31PM

Posted by D-Boy


Posted by Tamara


Posted by D-Boy

If the point system was how it is now at the start of the season would you have picked differently?

Probably not so this is what you would have got anyway and it's a fairer system



Since you are talking hypothetically-let me use this analogy-
"IF" I am kicking your butt and you tap out from an armbar and two weeks later the NSAC changes the rules and says no armbars allowed, should that mean I lose my purse for kicking your butt due to an armbar????

The point is changing the rules in the middle of the game and retro-acting them!
Thus taking points away from people that at that time they deserved.



Totally different, if you are using this context all it would mean is your fight purse is reduced and you would keep your win as we still get points for our actions just not as many. Why should the system only be changed between rounds there's nothing we would have done differently had this other scoring system been in place at the start that would change the positons that we are in now. If the round started with these rules you would still have your same rank.

It's not like you wouldn't pick Monson over Fujita because it's no longer a hot bout (This is your armbar analogy)

P.S I would never lose to an armbar ;)



First I could so totally armbar you. MY rules though..........

guru_of_grapple
4/12/07 7:33:40PM

Posted by D-Boy


Posted by guru_of_grapple

Yeah, no way points from past events should have been deducted. That's bullshit in my opinion. I lost A LOT of points because of that. I would be okay if you wanted to change the rules for upcoming events, but you're basically punishing those of us who did a good job of guessing the hotly debated fights. I pretty much went from being ranked in the early 400's to the 500's. I was REALLY into it and all these changing the rules as you go crap has ruined it. **** that. I'm done with this bullshit site.



Bye :(



I take it your rankings went UP with the rule changes? The site already ****** me out of a pick I made (I picked Pelligrino at UFN 9 and it didn't go through for some reason) and now they retro away a bunch of my points. All because a bunch of people who can't pick the TOUGH fights cried to the people that run the site like a bunch of bitches. Now I just wanna' get back in the 400's out of spite.
D-Boy
4/12/07 7:34:59PM

Posted by guru_of_grapple


Posted by D-Boy


Posted by guru_of_grapple

Yeah, no way points from past events should have been deducted. That's bullshit in my opinion. I lost A LOT of points because of that. I would be okay if you wanted to change the rules for upcoming events, but you're basically punishing those of us who did a good job of guessing the hotly debated fights. I pretty much went from being ranked in the early 400's to the 500's. I was REALLY into it and all these changing the rules as you go crap has ruined it. **** that. I'm done with this bullshit site.



Bye :(



I take it your rankings went UP with the rule changes? The site already ****** me out of a pick I made (I picked Pelligrino at UFN 9 and it didn't go through for some reason) and now they retro away a bunch of my points. All because a bunch of people who can't pick the TOUGH fights cried to the people that run the site like a bunch of bitches. Now I just wanna' get back in the 400's out of spite.


Welcome back and I never asked for the rules to change
CWall33
4/12/07 7:38:44PM

Posted by D-Boy

Totally different, if you are using this context all it would mean is your fight purse is reduced and you would keep your win as we still get points for our actions just not as many.



And that would be fair to you? Change the rules after the fact and take away her money and points for totally armbarring you? Hypothetically, of course.



Posted by D-Boy
Why should the system only be changed between rounds there's nothing we would have done differently had this other scoring system been in place at the start that would change the positons that we are in now. If the round started with these rules you would still have your same rank.

It's not like you wouldn't pick Monson over Fujita because it's no longer a hot bout (This is your armbar analogy)

P.S I would never lose to an armbar ;)



I don't think anyone has a problem with changing the rules mid-season (between rounds). The problem is making it retroactive.

Would we have picked differently with the current rules? Probably not. But that's not the point. We earned points based on the rules that were in place at the time. Those points should stand.

guru_of_grapple
4/12/07 7:41:10PM

Posted by D-Boy


Posted by guru_of_grapple


Posted by D-Boy


Posted by guru_of_grapple

Yeah, no way points from past events should have been deducted. That's bullshit in my opinion. I lost A LOT of points because of that. I would be okay if you wanted to change the rules for upcoming events, but you're basically punishing those of us who did a good job of guessing the hotly debated fights. I pretty much went from being ranked in the early 400's to the 500's. I was REALLY into it and all these changing the rules as you go crap has ruined it. **** that. I'm done with this bullshit site.



Bye :(



I take it your rankings went UP with the rule changes? The site already ****** me out of a pick I made (I picked Pelligrino at UFN 9 and it didn't go through for some reason) and now they retro away a bunch of my points. All because a bunch of people who can't pick the TOUGH fights cried to the people that run the site like a bunch of bitches. Now I just wanna' get back in the 400's out of spite.


Welcome back and I never asked for the rules to change


I wasn't saying you did. I'm just bitter because I just found out I lost a BUNCH of points and it pisses me off that they're changing the rules as they go. To me, changing rules at the end of the first season would have been the fair way to go about changing them. I could have been a little less childish about the way I went about expressing my displeasure. I wasn't trying to take it on on you. Sorry..I got a bit of a temper.
Tamara
4/12/07 7:47:02PM
I still want to see the percentage of complaints vs. members of the playground....

D-Boy
4/12/07 7:49:57PM

Posted by CWall33


Posted by D-Boy

Totally different, if you are using this context all it would mean is your fight purse is reduced and you would keep your win as we still get points for our actions just not as many.



And that would be fair to you? Change the rules after the fact and take away her money and points for armbarring you? Hypothetically, of course.



Posted by D-Boy
Why should the system only be changed between rounds there's nothing we would have done differently had this other scoring system been in place at the start that would change the positons that we are in now. If the round started with these rules you would still have your same rank.

It's not like you wouldn't pick Monson over Fujita because it's no longer a hot bout (This is your armbar analogy)

P.S I would never lose to an armbar ;)



I don't think anyone has a problem with changing the rules mid-season (between rounds). The problem is making it retroactive.

Would we have picked differently with the current rules? Probably not. But that's not the point. We earned points based on the rules that were in place at the time. Those points should stand.




At the end of the day this update has come to make things fairer and more balanced. It's been said many times this game is in BETA, meaning things need to be changed, balanced and worked out. I'm probably going to cross the line here by saying this but you just sound to me like a cry baby because you no longer have an advantage over other people who picked the fight details closer than you did.

Should things be retoactive everytime balance changes are imposed, in my opinion yes as it takes away unfairness (These updates make the game fairer as I said before) but at the end of the day it's up to the mods and admins and this is what they have chosen. It's their game and you should respect this.
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