single best background for mma

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POLL: What is the single best background for mma
jujitsu 35% (18)
kick boxing 6% (3)
wrestling 48% (25)
boxing 0% (0)
karate 0% (0)
other 12% (6)
mitch475
2/25/08 8:46:44AM
Just wondering what background gives you the best advantage?
disturbed_fighter
2/25/08 8:52:43AM
they always seem to be hyped up the most bcuz after they get the striking and jiu jitsu down they have an advantage on the whole game
CactusBob
2/25/08 8:55:19AM
I would have to say wrestling is a strong background. Not just for the actual skill set you develop, but also the physical strength, athleticism, and work ethic associated with successful wrestling. Also, wrestlers are practiced at cutting weight, making a transition to MMA easier.
Of course, you have to know how to throw a punch otherwise you will run into some sprawler and brawler. But overall wresling gives you a strong begining ground game to build on.
postman
2/25/08 10:53:44AM
Royce already answered this one.
Gipper
2/25/08 11:12:58AM
i know it's not karate. judo should be an option.
AchillesHeel
2/25/08 11:32:38AM
If you live in the United States, and if for some reason you're only studying one discipline, I would say wrestling, hands-down.

Outside the US, it would probably be something else. Sambo in Russia, for instance, or judo in Japan.
mitch475
2/25/08 12:19:52PM
Good point on where you are plays a big role, and this is purely hypothetical obviously any fighter who only trained in one would get his shit tossed. And ya the karate option was a filler I missed judo.
fullerene
2/25/08 12:50:42PM
A lot of ways to look at this. In America wrestling is the #1 feeder sport, but this is largely because it is so widely practiced and well-organized that by a time someone makes it to what seem like even a modest level--like D-1 starter--he's competed in hundreds of matches against other well-trained wrestlers and he would have had to havee won the overwhelming majority of those. The same can't be said for someone who trains 5-10 years of karate or jiu-jitsu.

But wrestling is the one sport up there that offers no specific way to finish a fight. Boxing, karate, Muay Thai, etc. teach techniques to KO an opponent. BJJ, Judo, etc. teach ways to submit. Wrestling teaches ways to move and control an opponent relative to the ground, but not any way (other than a bad landing) to finish them. Even some of the positions, like a wreslter's base, are impractical in an MMA fight. So in some ways it's the least applicable it just has the best filtering system for getting top athletes to the highest levels of the sport.

I''ll still answer "wrestling", but if the same level athletes were competing across all sports, with the same quality of opponents, coaches and competitions then I think someone with a Muay Thai background would best be able to make the tranistion to MMA.
candynuts
2/25/08 12:54:07PM

Posted by postman

Royce already answered this one.



Yep.
ChokeUout
2/25/08 1:14:33PM

Posted by candynuts


Posted by postman

Royce already answered this one.



Yep.



When? At the very first UFC's when he dominated? Or at UFC 60 Where he got Dominated by the Wrestler?
AchillesHeel
2/25/08 1:33:46PM

Posted by fullerene

A lot of ways to look at this. In America wrestling is the #1 feeder sport, but this is largely because it is so widely practiced and well-organized that by a time someone makes it to what seem like even a modest level--like D-1 starter--he's competed in hundreds of matches against other well-trained wrestlers and he would have had to havee won the overwhelming majority of those. The same can't be said for someone who trains 5-10 years of karate or jiu-jitsu.


Right, that's the biggest reason that it makes a difference where you're from. I think you would want to get involved in whatever the local fight sport is, just for the sake of getting into sport fighting. In the US, wrestling can be practiced from a young age through to Olympic-level competition, just about anywhere. My guess is at least 75% of American high schools have a competitive boys' wrestling team. In Bangkok, you can probably find a Muay Thai school every couple-hundred yards and fight in a tournament every weekend (I'm guessing, I've never been to Bangkok, but you know what I mean).


Posted by fullerene

But wrestling is the one sport up there that offers no specific way to finish a fight. Boxing, karate, Muay Thai, etc. teach techniques to KO an opponent. BJJ, Judo, etc. teach ways to submit.


I agree, but...


Posted by fullerene

Wrestling teaches ways to move and control an opponent relative to the ground, but not any way (other than a bad landing) to finish them. Even some of the positions, like a wreslter's base, are impractical in an MMA fight. So in some ways it's the least applicable it just has the best filtering system for getting top athletes to the highest levels of the sport.


I disagree with you here. I think the fact that wrestling doesn't have "finishes" like the other sports do actually provides a very strong foundation for MMA. Strength, speed, conditioning, positioning, body control and opponent control are all key in wrestling and are all immediately applicable to MMA.


Posted by fullerene

I''ll still answer "wrestling", but if the same level athletes were competing across all sports, with the same quality of opponents, coaches and competitions then I think someone with a Muay Thai background would best be able to make the tranistion to MMA.


Right, not all sports are created equal. A 9-yr-old kid in Ohio is in a different situation from a 9-yr-old kid in Bangkok. (However, I think a pure Muay Thai fighter might have the same problem with a pure wrestler that all the strikers did against grapplers like Royce Gracie, Kazushi Sakuraba, and Mark Coleman, back in the day.)


Posted by candynuts


Posted by postman

Royce already answered this one.



Yep.


Well, I see two ways the OP's question could be interpreted, and I think Royce only answered one of them:

1. Which martial art does the best by itself in an MMA match?
2. Which martial art is the best base upon which to then train MMA?

Gracie answered #1 in the early '90s, and it was the only question he was asking at the time. #2 may become a moot point before we can answer it definitively, as people start to train in MMA first, without a strong foundation in any other style.
AchillesHeel
2/25/08 1:36:11PM

Posted by ChokeUout

When? At the very first UFC's when he dominated? Or at UFC 60 Where he got Dominated by the Wrestler?


Exactly. Royce Gracie inadvertently answered two questions: First, pure grappling styles have an edge on pure striking styles in MMA. Second, any single style is at a disadvantage in an MMA match against an MMA fighter.
Tein_Lung
2/25/08 1:51:05PM

Posted by ChokeUout


Posted by candynuts


Posted by postman

Royce already answered this one.



Yep.



When? At the very first UFC's when he dominated? Or at UFC 60 Where he got Dominated by the Wrestler?

he also had food poisoning and Royce is a natural 175 pound guy and was small to fight hughes.. if he wanted to Royce could of made 155
jiujitsufreak74
2/25/08 3:23:17PM
in my opinion, sambo is the closest thing to MMA fighting. combat sambo incorporates both the ground game and striking. it goes over takedowns, throws, submissions, ground positions, punches, kicks, combinations from striking to takedowns...just the complete MMA package. i don't personally take sambo, but i would if i could. just look how well fedor and aleks do, not to mention AA. however, JJ is essential to know, and now most styles incorporate some JJ principles in them. i know sambo takes some things from JJ (as well as from judo and other arts), but JJ principles are pretty much essential in today's MMA game. on the other hand, unlike popular belief you don't have to train in JJ as long as it is some type of submission art. you can train in sambo and judo and be just as prepared submission wise as JJ would leave you. submissions are necessary to learn, so of your choices i picked JJ (because of the name obligation ) but for the overall MMA game i would go with sambo.
CactusBob
2/25/08 3:29:33PM
I see it like this... A wrestler who has rudimentary striking fares better than a striker with rudimentary ground skills, if you look at the successful fighters you see this trend. Of course, you look at the champions, they are all very well rounded in the higher level organizations.
postman
2/25/08 5:13:15PM

Posted by ChokeUout


Posted by candynuts


Posted by postman

Royce already answered this one.



Yep.



When? At the very first UFC's when he dominated? Or at UFC 60 Where he got Dominated by the Wrestler?



The question was the single best background. Matt Hughes Background was wrestling but he is a mixed martial artist. The early UFC's there were no mixed martial artists only BJJ guys, Boxers, Brwalers ect. and more times then not BJJ won. As the sport evolved guys like Matt Hughes learned to blend stlyes unfortuantily Royce stuck with BJJ and only BJJ. Now you can find Gyms all around the contury that have taken the best of all the stlyes blended then together and call it MMA. If you go to these gyms you are for the most part going to learn a blend of Muay Thai and kickboxing in the standup asspect then on the ground most of what you will learn is BJJ.
seanfu
2/25/08 6:06:54PM
Chuck liddell, Jens Pulver, Rampage Jackson, Diego Sanchez all started as wrestlers. A small example. Good strikers made way more successful by base wrestling. In a cage a great wrestler with C level skills in all else can still be an unstoppable beast.
Can you say the same about BJJ, or other styles? Maybe a hybrid style such as Sambo or catch style wrestling. MAYBE.
postman
2/25/08 6:45:12PM
Big Nog, Anderson Silva, Bj Penn all BJJ, All current UFC champs. Mir v Lesnar Bjj wins, you can make a case for every style but the old days of one demesional fighters proves BJJ for the most part wins.
LuketheDuke
2/25/08 7:29:00PM
Wrestling. Best place to start IMO. Can contol opponents and develop solid takedown defense. Wether it is used offensively (Hughes, Sherk, Ortiz, etc.), or defensivly (Liddell) it is probably the single best base to build on.

You can come up with other succesful guys who's base is something different, but the list isn't as long as wrestling. Most of the top names have a wrestling base-Liddell, Hughes, Sherk, Ortiz, Evans, Edgar, Barnett, and the list goes on.

Second probably goes to BJJ, IMO. Royce showed it's a dominating art, and now everyone has BJJ in their resume. MMA is getting better and better, and the athletes are getting more and more well rounded as time goes on. The days of having one art are long gone. You now need to incorporate everything to get on the radar and become succesful.
Pookie
2/25/08 7:32:46PM
If were talking about this being your only training... BJJ, hands down.

But the best base to start from would either be Muay Thai or Wrestling. The work ethic and conditioning they install in you is what gives you the edge, not necassarily the style itself.

But in the end it all comes down to the practitioner of the style. Fighters are only as good as the talent and heart they possess.
cj_striker
2/25/08 9:02:56PM
Completely agree with Pookie, he took the word right out of my mouth. The only thing I would add is that if you are in Eastern Europe, Russia, etc. Sambo of course would be the best background to train in. It's the closest thing to MMA.
telnights
2/26/08 3:52:15AM
Wrestling hands down

I have trained in both BJJ and wrestling. BJJ doesn't help you much if you cant take the guy down. But in the end both have there place and together makes for a very good fighter.
fullerene
2/26/08 7:43:44AM
I can't argue with anyone choosing wrestling (my choice) or BJJ (which came out on top in style-vs-style fights), but a couple of things to think about:

Most wrestlers and BJJ people I know are not interested in becoming fighters. They are obviously athletes who enjoy competition, but they don't find the thought of punching someone in the face or being punched appealing. That willingness to punch and be punched is an important distinction between fighter and athlete and most people fall on the side of athlete (nothing wrong with that). When you look at boxers or MT fighters they are already punching (and kicking) each other in compeition. I think nearly every one of them would have no problems with throwing someone to the floor or choking them in addition if that was what the rules call for. So, although you may have guys with a larger % of their game covered if they come in with a grappling background, I believe that a larger % of people who compete in striking are going to be willing to make the transition to MMA (if their ability is there).
slamdunk
4/4/08 6:53:34AM
i rekon depends how a fighter uses his knowledge of the disapline
but i rekon sambo cos basicly MMA
mkiv9secsupra
4/4/08 7:17:07AM
I would say Sambo/Judo. Solid takedowns and takedown defense and a pretty good ground game from one style.
mkiv9secsupra
4/4/08 7:19:27AM

Posted by telnights
BJJ doesn't help you much if you cant take the guy down. .



I thought BJJ taught you how to close the distance and perform basic takedowns?
skinnator
4/4/08 8:03:06AM
I think wrestling Is an important aspect.
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