What is Shogun's deal?

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lll-lll
8/5/12 9:30:20PM
He is starting to make himself look aweful. He basically got punked out by Dana twice in the last couple months. He first got called out for ducking Glover, then last night Dana all but pubically questioned his heart when he awarded Machida the fight. He about lost to Brandon Vera and GASSED MAJORLY AGAIN!!!! His camp sits by while Machida's camp is begging for a title shot and he says nothing at the presser about the decision other than to wish Machida well. Does he even care? I have always respected the guy as a fighter, though I do not like him or hsi fans at all. He still has fought and beaten some of the best. But IMO he is beginning to look like crap in the cage and a mental midget out of it. Did Jon Jones break him? The guy looked horrible through this whole Glover/Vera situation and realistically should have walked through both Henderson and Vera. If he doesnt do something soon his legacy is going to be trash.
MALICE
8/5/12 9:45:43PM
Rua has had 9 fights in the UFC. IMO, in 5 of those performances he looked awful. Griffin 1, Coleman, Jones, Henderson, and Vera. Yes, Rua/Henderson was fight of the year, but he gassed early and fought sluggish the majority of the fight. Much like he did last night against Vera. I don't think his heart is the question; in the Vera and Henderson fights he was fighting on nothing but heart.

IMO, there is something very very wrong with his conditioning. What that problem is, I have no idea?
sbulldavid
8/5/12 9:54:43PM
Everybody fades eventually, Vera was tired as shit and has better Muay Thai and has better wrestling. The fight was as expected Shogun either by KO early or it's going to be a struggle. Either he destroys or he leaves all he has in the ring what do you hate about.
sparky
8/5/12 9:56:58PM

Posted by MALICE


IMO, there is something very very wrong with his conditioning. What that problem is, I have no idea?



I agree 100 %

If there is one thing Shogun does have it's heart
sbulldavid
8/5/12 9:57:42PM
I think he's just over trained and been beat up too much in his career he hasn't been the same since the first Machida fight, maybe Machida broke him.
kopower
8/5/12 10:04:35PM
Definetly can't question his heart. My guess on his gassing is the cumulative amount of damage taken over the course of his career, and I'm sure the surgeries don't help either. I don't think his legacy is in danger. Sure, he's had a few stinker fights early, but he's looked decent after those. He has beaten some top guys in the UFC. Can't take that away from him.
lll-lll
8/5/12 10:18:54PM
Im not questioning his heart in fights, but outside the cage. First off he supposedly ducks Glover, but then he jumps at the chance to fight Vera within a day or so. Shoguns camp made some lame excuse about rank, when Vera is at best no better ranked than Glover rank wise. Be real now, that rank excuse was BS once they took the Vera fight. Then he drops a stinker vs a guy who he was set up to walk through and possibly earn a title shot. At the post fight presser Dana claims Machidas camp has been chomping at the bit to get a rematch with Jones, which in turn makes it seem that Shogun's camp is in no hurry to get back to Jones. Which is funny because that was their reasoning for ducking Glover, he did nothing for them in terms of rank, and Shogun was making his way back for the title. Now it seems he isnt exactly jumping at the chance to get a shot. Shogun does nothing to dispell the notion of anything Dana said! Ill give him credit he was classy in wishing Machida luck, but he could have also mentioned that he did want the shot! He could have defended himself and claimed that he had a burnign desire to be champ again. He did none of this, and it just made Dana look 100% right. I mean if you saw the press conference, he looked like the guy who lost, while Vera was upbeat like the winner.
infestructure
8/5/12 10:48:32PM
I think turning down Glover was smart, it was a lose lose situation for Rua. Shogun/Vera would be a much bigger draw (for the casuals) than Shogun/Texeira.

Shogun must have personal issues afflicting him. I loved him in PRIDE. Now I root against him.
Aether
8/5/12 10:57:07PM
Well, you can track the majority of his bad performances back to injuries and recovery periods.

Difficult to keep your cardio in top shape when your knees explode every 3 months or so. If the guy hadn't been plagued with injuries I have little doubt that he would've been the UFC champ a lot sooner than he was and for a lot longer.
Twenty20Dollars
8/5/12 10:58:00PM
Wow, don't know what all the hate for Shogun is for.

We've seen tons of fighters gas, no big deal. It was a grueling fight. No one has really walked through Hendo, expect maybe Silva, though never been TKO'd. Vera no slouch either.

At no point do I think Vera was winning the fight or Shogun was out of it. He took some good shots and was still there.

There is a language barrier and plus Shogun is usually a laid back type of guy.

So, there is no "deal" with Shogun.
tcunningham
8/5/12 11:00:34PM
he's got heart, i think he's just getting to the end of his career. he's been around a long time and not everybody has the same length career's. some are short some are long. shogun is on his way out.
Shawn91111
8/5/12 11:01:10PM
Shoguns defense has gone downhill


jae_1833
8/5/12 11:27:36PM
I am the opposite of most here.....I think it is under training in the cardio department. He is a big star in a camp where he is the big dog and most likely no one tells him when he is messing up. If he changex camps that refocused him on all aspects of Muay Thai (instead of just boxing with leg kicks) and general conditioning he could be a destroyer again.
aussiemma
8/5/12 11:47:03PM
to me i don't think shogun has gotten any worse. the fights he doesn't gas in like the machida fights and the liddel fight, they were contested on the feet and both liddell and machida are counter strikers that sit back and wait and rarely go for takedowns or grapple. It's much much easier to do 5 whole rounds on the feet rather than mix in grappling.

I think shogun has always had bad conditioning, don't really know about the pride days but his body in evey ufc fight i have seen has looked unfit and flabby compared to the rest of the guys.

what shogun does is finish people, that's what he does and that's what im sure he trains for rather than specifically training for mma cardio.
Chael_Sonnen
8/5/12 11:58:50PM
Shogun beats everyone in the 205 division EXCEPT Jon Jones.......he could have easily won the decision against Henderson, (that was a coin flip on who won) so what is his deal you ask?

Go smack yourself upside the head TS.

He looked a little tired during the fight, big freakin' deal, it's just a testament to Vera's ability to take a punch.

Machida couldn't finish a fat, lazy, freeway chasing Rampage....so what's his deal?

Failure....you should change your screen name to 000-000

Show some respect to a legend.
crushedbacon
8/6/12 1:09:03AM

Posted by lll-lll

He is starting to make himself look aweful. He basically got punked out by Dana twice in the last couple months. He first got called out for ducking Glover, then last night Dana all but pubically questioned his heart when he awarded Machida the fight. He about lost to Brandon Vera and GASSED MAJORLY AGAIN!!!! His camp sits by while Machida's camp is begging for a title shot and he says nothing at the presser about the decision other than to wish Machida well. Does he even care? I have always respected the guy as a fighter, though I do not like him or hsi fans at all. He still has fought and beaten some of the best. But IMO he is beginning to look like crap in the cage and a mental midget out of it. Did Jon Jones break him? The guy looked horrible through this whole Glover/Vera situation and realistically should have walked through both Henderson and Vera. If he doesnt do something soon his legacy is going to be trash.



Starting to make himself look awful? In his last 8 fights (5-3), 5 wins via KO or TKO. 2 Dec Losses to Machida and Henderson are debatable, Machida revenged Round 1 KO. Other loss to Jones (Got rocked early, was never right)

Still with the ducking Glover, it's hilarious that there's those out there that spew the "Dana says or said", that's equal to "I read on the internet".... So Shogun doesn't verbally beg for a title shot must mean he doesn't want it. I see. Some pretty BIG BALLS on anybody to question Shoguns heart, like really?

Shogun's a Mental Midget, that should have walked through Dan Henderson? Faack man, good to see your not afraid to just blast away with comments when you clearly haven't a grasp on the reality of things.

MuayThaiGeek13
8/6/12 9:21:10AM
He shows up to fight and gets paid. If he wins he gets paid more.
Gogoplatapus
8/6/12 11:18:00AM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen

Shogun beats everyone in the 205 division EXCEPT Jon Jones.......he could have easily won the decision against Henderson, (that was a coin flip on who won) so what is his deal you ask?

Go smack yourself upside the head TS.

He looked a little tired during the fight, big freakin' deal, it's just a testament to Vera's ability to take a punch.

Machida couldn't finish a fat, lazy, freeway chasing Rampage....so what's his deal?

Failure....you should change your screen name to 000-000

Show some respect to a legend.



BlueSkiesBurn
8/6/12 3:49:55PM

Posted by Aether

Well, you can track the majority of his bad performances back to injuries and recovery periods.

Difficult to keep your cardio in top shape when your knees explode every 3 months or so. If the guy hadn't been plagued with injuries I have little doubt that he would've been the UFC champ a lot sooner than he was and for a lot longer.



This.

This is why he's looked like shit. And I agree with MALICE about looking like crap in Henderson-Rua. He did. They both did. They somehow managed to make it look absolutely amazing.

Simply put, Shogun's body can't do what he wants it to do any longer. I think the cumulative effect of all the breaks and tears has taken its toll. This happens to some people in sports. Guys look like they are or could be great, but their body has other ideas.

Chad Pennington, Brandon Roy, Greg Oden (Probably not), but you get the idea. Sometimes a great fighter just has crappy luck and body that doesn't match his heart and talent. It sucks, but it happens.
prozacnation1978
8/6/12 9:03:05PM
He has no cardio

I think he should face Evans or gustaffson next
Bubbles
8/7/12 1:05:57AM
its very easy to be gassed when fighting Henderson after eating a couple H-bombs and nearly being finished for half of round 3...but then explain how he completely dominated round 5 where Hendo had zero left in his gas tank.

and what good would bitching and complaining do at the press conference?
Pookie
8/7/12 5:38:35AM


Eddie Murphy disagrees. All arguments are invalid.
warglory
8/7/12 7:50:28AM

Posted by Pookie



Eddie Murphy disagrees. All arguments are invalid.



whoa
lll-lll
8/8/12 10:19:16AM

Posted by crushedbacon


Posted by lll-lll

He is starting to make himself look aweful. He basically got punked out by Dana twice in the last couple months. He first got called out for ducking Glover, then last night Dana all but pubically questioned his heart when he awarded Machida the fight. He about lost to Brandon Vera and GASSED MAJORLY AGAIN!!!! His camp sits by while Machida's camp is begging for a title shot and he says nothing at the presser about the decision other than to wish Machida well. Does he even care? I have always respected the guy as a fighter, though I do not like him or hsi fans at all. He still has fought and beaten some of the best. But IMO he is beginning to look like crap in the cage and a mental midget out of it. Did Jon Jones break him? The guy looked horrible through this whole Glover/Vera situation and realistically should have walked through both Henderson and Vera. If he doesnt do something soon his legacy is going to be trash.



Starting to make himself look awful? In his last 8 fights (5-3), 5 wins via KO or TKO. 2 Dec Losses to Machida and Henderson are debatable, Machida revenged Round 1 KO. Other loss to Jones (Got rocked early, was never right)

Still with the ducking Glover, it's hilarious that there's those out there that spew the "Dana says or said", that's equal to "I read on the internet".... So Shogun doesn't verbally beg for a title shot must mean he doesn't want it. I see. Some pretty BIG BALLS on anybody to question Shoguns heart, like really?

Shogun's a Mental Midget, that should have walked through Dan Henderson? Faack man, good to see your not afraid to just blast away with comments when you clearly haven't a grasp on the reality of things.




Oh wow, look its a totally unbiased Shogun nuthugger. Complete with Shogun avatard, excuses or denial of every loss, posters on his wall and Shoguns wang planted firmly in his...... Anyways......

Why is it a grown man (I assume you are grown) has to nutride a fighter like this? I have a list of favorites such as Jones, Arlovski, Cain, Gray, Arona, Glover, and many more. You will NEVER catch me making excuses for their losses or spewing on like this garbage here. Arlovski has the worst chin ever. I htink Cain's is bad as well. Glover will have issues with speed and size. Id guess Jones and Gust slaughter him. Gray has been boring in manyh fights. Arona is the most boring fighter in MMA history! I can enjoy watching fighters without becoming a 5 year old. Why cant everyone?


lll-lll
8/8/12 10:25:41AM

Posted by Bubbles

its very easy to be gassed when fighting Henderson after eating a couple H-bombs and nearly being finished for half of round 3...but then explain how he completely dominated round 5 where Hendo had zero left in his gas tank.

and what good would bitching and complaining do at the press conference?




Apparently it would have gotten him a title shot. Machida begged for the shot and got it. We all know how Dana is. We've seen TUF and him letting guys back in who show they want it. Its not rocket science. machida and his people understood what it took to get a rematch. many people have asked for a shot and gotten one. GSP for example.
lll-lll
8/8/12 10:29:54AM
Ill call it now, when Shoguns deal is up he leaves the UFC. He strikes me as a guy who is ready to move back to Japan or to somewhere that he can be a big fish in a small pond.
Pookie
8/8/12 11:54:57AM

Posted by lll-lll

I can enjoy watching fighters without becoming a 5 year old. Why cant everyone?




george112
8/8/12 11:56:10AM

Posted by jae_1833

I am the opposite of most here.....I think it is under training in the cardio department. He is a big star in a camp where he is the big dog and most likely no one tells him when he is messing up. If he changex camps that refocused him on all aspects of Muay Thai (instead of just boxing with leg kicks) and general conditioning he could be a destroyer again.



jae_1833 said it first


i also think its an under training department. Wanderlie has the exact same problem.

these guys need to hit the treadmill or something. Time after time after time.

There are plenty of fighters who are just as big take just as much damage but have outstanding cardio. Or atleast enough cardio to not look totally sloppy the last 2 rounds.

crushedbacon
8/8/12 4:39:24PM
[


Oh wow, look its a totally unbiased Shogun nuthugger. Complete with Shogun avatard, excuses or denial of every loss, posters on his wall and Shoguns wang planted firmly in his...... Anyways......

Why is it a grown man (I assume you are grown) has to nutride a fighter like this? I have a list of favorites such as Jones, Arlovski, Cain, Gray, Arona, Glover, and many more. You will NEVER catch me making excuses for their losses or spewing on like this garbage here. Arlovski has the worst chin ever. I htink Cain's is bad as well. Glover will have issues with speed and size. Id guess Jones and Gust slaughter him. Gray has been boring in manyh fights. Arona is the most boring fighter in MMA history! I can enjoy watching fighters without becoming a 5 year old. Why cant everyone?




5 year old? Dude, re-read your opening paragraph, and then you conclude you're post with a lesson in maturity. Right...

Is it possible for someone to be a fan, without having guys like you coin people as "nuthuggers" & "nutrider's" ? I hate that term, but you clearly seem to enjoy it, as a member of a fight camp called The UFC Nutrider's...fitting.

By "nutriding" , I'm assuming you mean when I re-hashed his last 8 fights. Does saying the Henderson/Machida decisions were really close and could have went either way make me a biased "nuthugger" Or was it saying that Shogun was rocked early in the Jones fight and wasn't right after that do it? I'm not saying Shogun can take Jones out, I just think he was rocked early and can put a better performance in then he did @ 128.

So what I've gathered from you're post.... from you're persepctive if you display the ability to be critical of a fighter you support, that will clear you of being coined a "nuthugger". So if that's the magic button in you're little bizzaro world...

Ok, Shogun has next to zero TDD, and in long war's get's tired. Feel better?

Oh I recognize the reality of things, that's why your comments.... "Shogun looks awful, ducked Glover, has no heart, doesn''t even want the title shot, mental midget, should have walked through Henderson etc. had to be responded to.

As Chael_Sonnen said earlier, show some respect for a legend.
Pookie
8/8/12 6:26:22PM
Shogun has terrible endurance(anaerobic), but i think his conditioning(aerobic) is actually pretty decent. That's why he can be sluggish once he's exerted himself a little trying to get a finish, but still sustain that pace until the end.

Whereas Henderson is like the exact opposite. Henderson can sustain his go for the kill pace for a long time, but when that's over he's done. You'll see his energy level drop significantly once he's peaked.

For a mental picture, think Fight night champions. How long it takes the permanent energy bar to run out is Aerobic, and how quick the bar goes down temporarily when you punch is Anaerobic. Shogun throws a 6 strike combo, and he's visibly winded. Hendo throws a hellacious fury and still has energy to keep going. But on the flip side, as a fight progresses, Hendo's gas tank is much smaller in the later rounds, and Shogun looks as sluggish as he did in round 2.

With that said, Shogun still hits incredibly hard, evidenced by the fact that he can knock you out cold while he's winded.
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