Shiela Gaff vs. Jennifer Maia - touch gloves/sucker punch

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POLL: Cheap shot or protect yourself at all times
Cheap shot 63% (17)
Protect yourself at all times 37% (10)
FlashyG
3/22/12 12:05:02PM

Posted by warglory


Yes, they did touch gloves. Seconds 8 and 9 clearly show her motioning and then touching gloves before throwing a punch. It's very quick because of the camera angle, but it's there. Do you think that Maia would have wandered into punching range with her defenses down if Gaff was in a complete defensive stance and not extending her arm? Come on now.



I think you're seeing what you want to see.



There is the 8 second mark and Gaff is showing no signs of touching gloves.



At the 9 second mark her left hand is upright and protecting her head and her right is cocking back to throw the punch.

Maia did exactly as you said, wandered into punching range with her defenses down against an opponent that gave no indications she was going to touch gloves.
warglory
3/22/12 1:52:41PM

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by warglory


Yes, they did touch gloves. Seconds 8 and 9 clearly show her motioning and then touching gloves before throwing a punch. It's very quick because of the camera angle, but it's there. Do you think that Maia would have wandered into punching range with her defenses down if Gaff was in a complete defensive stance and not extending her arm? Come on now.



I think you're seeing what you want to see.



There is the 8 second mark and Gaff is showing no signs of touching gloves.



Her left hand is clearly extended out towards her opponent, which leads to three possible conclusions:

1. She is shadow boxing.
2. She is a zombie.
3. She is intending on touching gloves.

I can't recall many fighters at the bell, who come out with that type of posture if that are intending to jump right into attack mode.





At the 9 second mark her left hand is upright and protecting her head and her right is cocking back to throw the punch.

Maia did exactly as you said, wandered into punching range with her defenses down against an opponent that gave no indications she was going to touch gloves.



Look at Maia's face. She is focused on her opponent's arm to touch. If she was intending to immediately initiate combat, she wouldn't be doing such a thing.

It makes no sense that a professional fighter would wander up, defenses down, to their opponent when their opponent is in a defensive posture ready to attack.

And if you watch the video again, right before the first punch, it does look like they tough gloves first.

FlashyG
3/22/12 4:02:37PM
Nobody is saying Maia wasn't intending to touch gloves, she obviously was.

Gaff at no point in that video looked like she intended to touch gloves again.

Fighters should assume that their opponent is not going to touch gloves unless they indicate otherwise IMO.

Bubbles
3/22/12 4:27:59PM
watching the video again, I can see where both of you guys are coming from. IMO your initial perspective is what makes you two see something to back your argument.
Franklinfan47
3/22/12 8:08:09PM
Protect yourself at all times ladies!!
Cooler
3/22/12 10:57:34PM

Posted by FlashyG

hitting someone in the back of the head is against the rules of the sport.

Hitting someone while they stick their arm out isn't




That's the problem though. When people condone this stuff and point to some horrible catch phrase that acts as a loophole for cheap shots, instead of demanding that these type of acts become illegal and not just set as some unwritten rule that can be broken by any douchebag who can exploit it.. It's like tax breaks for the rich, ridiculous...

Should it not be a rule if it's a cheap shot? Back of the head shots are cheap shots because they cause easiers knockouts and damages. And it causes easier knockouts and damages when you dont expect it. The girl who was knocked out was probably finished faster because of that one first cheap punch or two.
FlashyG
3/23/12 2:36:18AM
"protect yourself at all times" and "If you want to touch gloves, do it now" aren't catchphrases, they are direct instructions from the referee.

A catchphrase is "Lets get it on" or "hook em' up".

How would you write that rule? no punching until the 5 second mark of the fight, each fighter must touch gloves before the fight, and right after the opening bell of each round?

If any rule should be implemented it should be one that explicitly tells fighters to touch gloves before or after the fight not during. Otherwise you are creating a grey area where a referee has to determine in a split second whether someone was intending to touch gloves or not.

Gaff didn't break any rules, she threw a punch between the bells while the clock was running, and didn't connect with the back of the head.

The only person who made a mistake was Maia, she disregarded her own safety and the directions of the referee in charge of the fight. She probably won't make that mistake again.
Cooler
3/23/12 3:16:34AM
I think a sucker punch point deduction could easily be implimented. Something that says that all sucker punching results in a point deduction. I understand that it's ref intruction and perhaps the lady should have been more cognizant but that doesn't mean this shouldn't be changed or altered for safety. It's like when stomps and soccer kicks were illegal.. it was taken out because it was too brutal (mainly for tv) and for safety sake taken out, why not for cheap shots like groin strikes are? How couldnt anyone not be in favor of a point deduction for this? Just because it's technically legal and shouldnt be? Well it's legal to do a lot of stupid shit and illegal to do a lot of good shit, doesnt make it right, ya know?.. I would see this 'asshole tax' so to speak (or unsportsmanlike conduct) as another safety precaution against this sort of thing.
FlashyG
3/23/12 1:16:42PM
A sucker punch is a punch that is unexpected, Maia had every reason to expect to be punched, she was in a live round of a professional fight.

Paul Daley sucker punched Josh Koscheck.

Shiela Gaff didn't sucker punch Maia any more than Nate Marquardt did to Palhares when he took time out of the round to argue with the Ref that Nate was greased.

Sheila Gaff did nothing wrong, if anyone is to be criticized for the outcome of this fight it should be Maia for forgetting/disregarding the instructions from the ref.

No new rules are needed, fighters just need to start following the ones that exist.
Cooler
3/24/12 12:33:15AM
I get what you mean flashy but this was nothing like Nate vs Palhares to me.
FlashyG
3/24/12 1:05:09AM
How so?

Because one happened a few seconds into a fight and the other happened mid round?

You have the same responsibility to protect yourself in both instances. Both fighters for different reasons took their focus off the fight for something they shouldn't have been doing and both got finished for it.

If Gaff had punched her when they were touching gloves before the fight started, that would be a sucker punch, like when Herring knocked out Nakao. "Edit - Thanks Pookie"

The only way you can sucker punch someone during a fight is when the ref has called time. if the clock is running you have to be ready to protect yourself.
Pookie
3/24/12 1:14:21AM

Posted by FlashyG

like when Herring knocked out Nakao.


Cooler
3/25/12 2:29:04AM

Posted by FlashyG
A sucker punch is a punch that is unexpected, Maia had every reason to expect to be punched, she was in a live round of a professional fight.



We all understand there was a lack of awareness but you're still not supposed to know that your opponent is going to be an asshole and cheap shot you taking advantage of technically legal unsportsmanlike conduct.


Posted by FlashyG
Shiela Gaff didn't sucker punch Maia any more than Nate Marquardt did to Palhares when he took time out of the round to argue with the Ref that Nate was greased.



That's way different. Nate and Paulharris were at least a minute or so into the fight. No matter how slippery Nate feels you cant look over to the ref and complain, this is a totally different situation man. The other girl took advantage of her trying to touch gloves, the comparison is apples and oranges... If you can condone this conduct, thats your stance on this then, I despise this type of behavior and wont be cornered into a position of accepting cheap shots.
FlashyG
3/25/12 2:54:23AM
a minute into the fight or 5 seconds into the fight, you're still in the fight.

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?

Should they remove the glove touch in the stare down if you're obligated do it again less than 10 seconds later? If someone wants to touch gloves with you mid-round or at the start of the second and third rounds are you obligated to touch then too?

If they just follow instructions and touch gloves the 1 time then come out fighting everyone is happy, no round time is wasted, and there is no debate on whether someone threw a cheapshot.

With how horrible officials have been in MMA in general do we really want to create a bunch more grey area for them? lets keep the rules as simple as possible so they can keep the fighters safe and we can keep seeing good fights. I'm sure we can at least agree on that.



Kpro
3/25/12 1:15:10PM
It seems to always be a Maia getting the raw deal. Like when Demian Maia tried to do the flying glove tap and Nate Marquardt cheap shotted him.
Cooler
3/26/12 2:17:32PM

Posted by FlashyG

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?




Just use your common sense and have sportsmanship. This really isnt such a gray area, especially a few seconds into a fight when you try to touch gloves with someone. Not every damn fight has a glove touch pre-fight.
Kpro
3/26/12 2:20:04PM

Posted by Cooler


Posted by FlashyG

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?




Just use your common sense and have sportsmanship. This really isnt such a gray area, especially a few seconds into a fight when you try to touch gloves with someone. Not every damn fight has a glove touch pre-fight.



Say they did touch gloves and then Gaff punched? Is it a sucker punch if they did touch gloves because the first punch after the glove touch came too quickly?
Cooler
3/26/12 2:25:17PM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by Cooler


Posted by FlashyG

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?




Just use your common sense and have sportsmanship. This really isnt such a gray area, especially a few seconds into a fight when you try to touch gloves with someone. Not every damn fight has a glove touch pre-fight.



Say they did touch gloves and then Gaff punched? Is it a sucker punch if they did touch gloves because the first punch after the glove touch came too quickly?



Like a 1-2 glove touch to right hook? hahaha yeah, cheap
Kpro
3/26/12 2:27:33PM

Posted by Cooler


Posted by Kpro


Posted by Cooler


Posted by FlashyG

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?




Just use your common sense and have sportsmanship. This really isnt such a gray area, especially a few seconds into a fight when you try to touch gloves with someone. Not every damn fight has a glove touch pre-fight.



Say they did touch gloves and then Gaff punched? Is it a sucker punch if they did touch gloves because the first punch after the glove touch came too quickly?



Like a 1-2 glove touch to right hook? hahaha yeah, cheap



Then it's a gray area when you're talking about time in between. Does someone have to take a step back after the glove touch? Allow a full second to pass? That's not black and white or common sense, there is a gray area there.
Cooler
3/26/12 2:32:53PM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by Cooler


Posted by Kpro


Posted by Cooler


Posted by FlashyG

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?




Just use your common sense and have sportsmanship. This really isnt such a gray area, especially a few seconds into a fight when you try to touch gloves with someone. Not every damn fight has a glove touch pre-fight.



Say they did touch gloves and then Gaff punched? Is it a sucker punch if they did touch gloves because the first punch after the glove touch came too quickly?



Like a 1-2 glove touch to right hook? hahaha yeah, cheap



Then it's a gray area when you're talking about time in between. Does someone have to take a step back after the glove touch? Allow a full second to pass? That's not black and white or common sense, there is a gray area there.



On second thought maybe it's not cheap if they both touch, good point.

I still stand that gaff vs maia was cheap though.
Kpro
3/26/12 2:34:36PM

Posted by Cooler


Posted by Kpro


Posted by Cooler


Posted by Kpro


Posted by Cooler


Posted by FlashyG

How many seconds have to pass before you are allowed to punch someone without it being considered cheap shot in your opinion?




Just use your common sense and have sportsmanship. This really isnt such a gray area, especially a few seconds into a fight when you try to touch gloves with someone. Not every damn fight has a glove touch pre-fight.



Say they did touch gloves and then Gaff punched? Is it a sucker punch if they did touch gloves because the first punch after the glove touch came too quickly?



Like a 1-2 glove touch to right hook? hahaha yeah, cheap



Then it's a gray area when you're talking about time in between. Does someone have to take a step back after the glove touch? Allow a full second to pass? That's not black and white or common sense, there is a gray area there.



On second thought maybe it's not cheap if they both touch, good point.



Can you understand that some people impute a spirit of mischief? How do you react to those allegations?

Of course I've been following the discussions on the internet and I'm very sad about it. I was seriously considering to drop out of the Cage Warriors tournament because of it. Inside the cage I get straight down to the nitty-gritty, but when you allege I'm malicious and fake, I'm very sensitive about it and it makes me very sad.

I definitely did not fake touching gloves, all I did was starting to fight right after it. That's just my disposition. If I had to back off after touching gloves, that would destroy my game. It's really dumb such a big fuss was made about it as the right I landed after touching gloves had zero impact.

You are known for going all out from the opening bell. Your last three fights lasted less than two minutes together. Is it your gameplan to surprise your opponents with your power and technique?

For sure. I racked up all my wins inside the first round and four times the fight was over in less than a minute. I can just repeat myself: I want to go out and finish fights.

LINK to the full interview
KungFuMaster
3/26/12 6:16:12PM
Legal or not - that was a cowardly and unsportsmanlike conduct.
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