Sherk being overlooked

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MALICE
10/6/08 11:23:54PM
I can't believe it. I was just checking out some rankings on multiple sites, and Sherk is really being underated.

MMAWeekly - not ranked
MMANews - 10th
Sherdog - 10th

IMO, Sherk should never be rated less than Top 5 on any list. Here is a list of fighters ranked above him on these sites.

Penn (BJ is no doubt #1)
Gomi (Sherk would hold him down for the decision win Sherk UD)
Alvarez (he's never faced a wrestler like Sherk UD)
Aoki (Sherk has never been sub'd, but there is always a chance Sherk UD)
Hansen (Sherk UD)
Kawajiri (Sherk UD)
Calvancanti (Sherk UD)
Ishida (Sherk UD)
Thomson (Sherk UD)
Stevenson (Sherk UD)
Melendez (Sherk UD)

I know he's not the most exciting, but Sherk can easily out-wrestle, and GnP most of these fighters to a decision. I know the steroid incident set him back, but to not even be listed on a top 10 list is just plain ignorant. He has only been stopped twice in his career, by BJ and GSP.

Sean Sherk
Nick Name The Muscle Shark
Record 32 - 3 - 1 (Win - Loss - Draw)
Wins 8 (T)KOs ( 25 %)
13 Submissions ( 40.63 %)
11 Decisions ( 34.38 %)
Losses 2 (T)KOs ( 66.67 %)
1 Decisions ( 33.33 %)

This has bugged me for a while. Just wanted to express my feelings and know who on that list you think can beat Sherk. Of course anybody can, but you know what I mean.

Pookie
10/6/08 11:34:21PM
Hes a definite top ten, but the knock on him is he does have a majorly padded record and has never actually beaten a top ten fighter at the time of the fight.


Calvancanti - I see Jz taking this with his exploveness in his stand-up and all around grappling skills
Gomi - Sherk UD
Alvarez - Sherk UD
Aoki - 50/50, i think aoki's length and guard would give him troubles, and if top control wasnt scored as a dominant position i think Aoki would win the decision by sub attempts and activity
Hansen - Sherk UD
Kawajiri - If knees to the head are allowed while on the ground i think kawajiri might actually stop him, but if not then Sherk UD
Ishida - Very close grappling match but i give it to Sherk at this point
Thompson - Sherk UD
Stevenson - Sherk UD
Melendez - Sherk UD
Edgar - Sherk UD
Griffin - Sherk UD

Wolfenstein
10/6/08 11:35:13PM
I currently have Sean Sherk ranked at #10. This is in large part due to inactivity because of his suspension, because of that he hasn't actually won a fight since July 07'. Then in his most recent outing he was dominated (granted it was by the #1 LW).

I think if Sherk walks away with a victory against Griffin more sites will list him, but he might still need another victory to get back up inside the top 5.
sonicsmokesweed
10/6/08 11:36:53PM
i dont think sean can do nothing but hold people down the whole time althought he advances his position i think hes sorta washed up Tyson Grifin is gonna beat him in the standup department and if he gets tyson down tyson' getting back up i think that most of the ufc's 155 pounders got his number. Kenny Florian Will Merk him in a rematch i think i may be wrong but i think Florian has improve tremedously
Aether
10/6/08 11:59:19PM
My guess is when a fighter gets banned for steroids they basically expunge their record entirely (as it relates to rankings) and start them from scratch again. Logically Sherk should probably be in the top 5 but if they decide that they don't consider any fights before a steroid ban then he only has one loss against BJ to rank him by.

Depends on what their rules are for ranking. I'm guessing that's why though because all of those sites had him listed as #1 before the steroid incident.
hotrodttt
10/7/08 12:00:32AM
I'll agree with you on some but I'll post my differences, I do have Sean ranked though but who really has he Beat that's Top 10, Just Kenny so I could see how some people could leave him off

Penn (BJ is no doubt #1)
Gomi is an Underrated Wrestler and could possibly keep it Standing
Alvarez- Yeah he could Beat Alvarez but kets not forget that Eddie was an All American
Aoki- Right, Sherk has never faced a Submission Grappler like Aoki, he's lose imo
Hansen would probably catch him with one of those trademark knees as Sean shoots in
Kawajiri is a Great Wrestler, I think he'd Knock Sherk out
Calvancanti- He's too Big and Dynamic for Sean
Ishida is also a Great Wrestler but there is a Threat of a Sherk Decision
Thomson (Sherk UD)
Stevenson (Sherk UD)
Melendez (Sherk UD)
MALICE
10/7/08 12:01:59AM
Pookie, I guess his record does look more impressive than it actually is. And I see what you are saying about not beating a top 10 at the actual fight date.

His notable wins are over
Parisyan
Diaz
Florian
Franca

Wolfenstein, I do understand that inactivity affects the rankings. And he will move back up with some wins, but to not even be listed

Once again, I know he is not the most exciting fighter, and it upsets some fans when he just holds his opponents down for 3 rounds. But to me that is what is so impressive. If you do not have outstanding wrestling and JJ, he will overwhelm you with his control. This upsets some fans. They say "all he did was hold him down for three rounds". I think it is a great test to see what level a fighter is at. If they pass the test they are ready. If they don't pass, obviously they need more training. Kenny is a good example. He wasn't ready. He has changed his game a lot. They may face each other again. This time the outcome could be different.

I'll admit, I may be overestimating his wrestling a little bit. But he has only lost to Hughes(in his prime), GSP(top P4P), and Penn(top P4P). But, I guess he hasn't faced many more top fighters other than them, so my arguments does have some holes in it.
Pookie
10/7/08 12:22:21AM

Posted by xxMALICExx

Pookie, I guess his record does look more impressive than it actually is. And I see what you are saying about not beating a top 10 at the actual fight date.

His notable wins are over
Parisyan
Diaz
Florian
Franca




IMO the franca fight doesn count, as both fighters were on steroids and performed differently then they would have without.
MALICE
10/7/08 12:32:47AM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by xxMALICExx

Pookie, I guess his record does look more impressive than it actually is. And I see what you are saying about not beating a top 10 at the actual fight date.

His notable wins are over
Parisyan
Diaz
Florian
Franca




IMO the franca fight doesn count, as both fighters were on steroids and performed differently then they would have without.



Very good point. I overlooked that. Sorry. It was a shame. Both were top 10 fighters at the time. I never heard Franca's side, but I do believe it was unfortunate for Sherk. I do believe he was unaware that he had taken anything. It is crazy that they can sell products over the counter with these substances in them. I didn't know they were not controlled by the FDA. Still Sherk's responsibility, but very unfortunate.

Normally, if a fighter was involved in the same type of incident, I would do the same, and drop him in the rankings, until he had proven himself again. But in Sherk's case I did not. I am a little bias for reasons I will not post.
juanez13
10/7/08 6:28:35AM
IMO i believe very few people can beat Sherk. I dont think Aoki would last long with sherk if there elbows allowed, and they are in a cage. If it was ring with no elbows, i'd still think sherk would beat him. I think he'd beat just about everyone on that list, except BJ.
Branwest
10/7/08 9:40:08AM
He's definately top-10.....IMO top-5......It's hard to believe that someone who's so dedicated to working out and eating right would take steroids. His episode on Spike that showed his training and eating habits was unbelievable. Other fighters were even shocked. He isn't the most exciting fighter to watch, but he's d#mn tough and can win decisions against most LW's.....And why is Gomi still so highly ranked?? I'm sorry but I just don't get it. People have worshiped him since he stopped playing baseball and started fighting. He's good, but #2, I don't think so......
jomatty
10/7/08 9:53:42AM
imo he is the number 2 lw in the world. before penn dropped down there was noone in the ufc that really had a legitimate chance of beating him. it is difficult to say what guys like jz and hansen would do against him but i give him the edge. not ranking him in the top ten is just plain silly...also it should be noted that he is one fighter that i truly do not like to watch fight. i respect his wrestling and ability to win fights but to me he is exactly the type of fighter i find boring...
ziegler3334
10/7/08 10:13:57AM
I dont think sherk will ever beat bj penn, and i wouldn't be surprised if he lost to some top LWs, but i would never count him out of any fight because his cardio is so great. That alone makes him top 10. Add his wrestling, and he's def close to top 5.
Gipper
10/7/08 11:08:24AM
i agree sherk doesn't get enough respect. none of the ufc lw's except penn get any credit in the rankings. i've got sherk as no.2 in my lw rankings. i think he'd roll over any of the top lw's outside the ufc.
pv3Hpv3p
10/7/08 11:36:08AM
Sherk's problem is the same as Hughes's... No one is afraid or even slightly worried about their standup, and the thing about todays MMA fighters is that if you only give them one thing to worry about (the takedown) your chances of winning the fight have just gone down exponentially...

When you look at guys like Gomi, Alvarez, Kawajiri, Calvancanti, and even Melendez... They are all going to give Sherk problems... And one of the main reasons he falls by the wayside is that his style bores people plain and simple... His next fight should show if he really deserves to be top 10 or is just going to be a stepping stone for Tyson Griffen
KYGUY07
10/7/08 11:39:55AM
People dont give Sherk the credit he deserves, he lost to hughes who at the time was the best out there, then he lost to gsp whos top 3 p4p imo, and B.J. whos also top 3 p4p, thats nothing to be ashamed of, plus hes beaten florian, diaz, franca, and lots of other great fighters, I think people just dont like Sherk and thats why he dont get the credit he deserves.
mkiv9secsupra
10/7/08 11:50:10AM
Sherk is top 5 no doubt!

If Aoki and Alvarez trully thought they were numero uno then they should be fighting in the UFC against the number one to prove it...its easy to look good when you fight other b level fighters. Kawjiri, Hansen, Ishida, Thomson, and Melendez dont compare to Stevenson, Florian, Guida, Edgar, Maynard, and Griffin.

The best fighters have always been in the UFC. LHW, MW, WW, HW, and LW. To prove you are the best you have to beat the best.


And how did Nick Diaz drop off the rankings all together?
Fearless915
10/7/08 12:00:09PM
Stevenson over Sherk? year that's stupid
JohnnyNapalm
10/7/08 12:18:12PM
Sherk is being overlooked 'cause he's so short.

Needs to get up on his toes.
loonytnt
10/7/08 12:57:47PM
sherk is very tough but, i think the roids are still in a lot of peoples minds so i can see that being why people dont think he is as good as he is
Wolfenstein
10/7/08 4:15:17PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Sherk is top 5 no doubt!

If Aoki and Alvarez trully thought they were numero uno then they should be fighting in the UFC against the number one to prove it...its easy to look good when you fight other b level fighters. Kawjiri, Hansen, Ishida, Thomson, and Melendez dont compare to Stevenson, Florian, Guida, Edgar, Maynard, and Griffin.

The best fighters have always been in the UFC. LHW, MW, WW, HW, and LW. To prove you are the best you have to beat the best.


And how did Nick Diaz drop off the rankings all together?



The lightweights you mentioned are not B level fighters. Japan has always had an incredibly stacked LW division.

For the sake of simplicity I'll use MMA weekly's rankings which I feel are one of the best around even if they're not perfect.

Kawajiri #6 Notable victories over Per Ecklund, Joachim Hansen, Vitor Ribeiro, and Yves Edwards

Hansen #5 Notable victories over Takanori Gomi, Shinya Aoki, Caol Uno, and Gesias Cavalcante

Gesias Cavalcante #7 Notable victories over Caol Uno, Vitor Ribeiro, and Bart Palaszewski

Ishida #8 Notable victories over Gilbert Melendez, Marcus Aurelio, and David Bieklheden

Thomson #9 Notable victories over Gilbert Melendez, Duane Ludwig, Hermes Franca, and Rob McCullough

Melendez #unranked Notable victories over Kawajiri, Clay Guida, and Rumina Sato (Mr flying armbar)

Stevenson #10
Florian, Guida, Edgar, Maynard, and Griffin are unranked (Florian probably should be ranked but the others are outside the top 10).

I think they compare more favorably for Japan. Oustide of a fight with BJPenn I don't think there is a tremendous amount of competition to draw these fighters to the UFC.



Pookie
10/7/08 4:16:45PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Kawjiri, Hansen, Ishida, Thomson, and Melendez dont compare to Stevenson, Florian, Guida, Edgar, Maynard, and Griffin.




I just want to add that Gilbert Milendez absolutely dominated his fight against Guida. 5 round fight and Guida lost all 5
WrestlersAssassin
10/7/08 4:18:42PM
Feijao and JZ will be some of the biggest stars in MMA sooner or later.
JimiMak
10/7/08 5:33:48PM
Sherk is a boring one dimensional overrated roid head who's never beaten a top ten guy. Why anyone would even think about him right now is beyond me. Let him step in the ring w/ a top level guy and have an impressive win, then I'll thnk about him having a legit rating.
bls1919
10/7/08 5:41:06PM
I think Sherk will fade away soon. He is tough as nails but is very one dimensional. We'll se how he does against Griffin.
gartface
10/7/08 5:54:03PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by xxMALICExx

Pookie, I guess his record does look more impressive than it actually is. And I see what you are saying about not beating a top 10 at the actual fight date.

His notable wins are over
Parisyan
Diaz
Florian
Franca




IMO the franca fight doesn count, as both fighters were on steroids and performed differently then they would have without.


I agree. And not to be a dick, but Karo was 19 years old both times he fought Sean Sherk.
IMO Sean has to prove himself again after the suspension, that he is capable of beating top competition. I'll put him back in the rankings if he beats Tyson Griffin.
pv3Hpv3p
10/8/08 11:41:18AM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Sherk is top 5 no doubt!

If Aoki and Alvarez trully thought they were numero uno then they should be fighting in the UFC against the number one to prove it...its easy to look good when you fight other b level fighters. Kawjiri, Hansen, Ishida, Thomson, and Melendez dont compare to Stevenson, Florian, Guida, Edgar, Maynard, and Griffin.

The best fighters have always been in the UFC. LHW, MW, WW, HW, and LW. To prove you are the best you have to beat the best.


And how did Nick Diaz drop off the rankings all together?



LOL... Stevenson? Maynard? Guida? Griffen? Who have they beaten that is the best? Stevenson's biggest win was against... Yves Edwards maybe? And Maynard has all of five fights with a lay and pray win over Edgar... Guida has actually lost to one of the fighters you mentioned (Melendez)... Florian's biggest win was the overhyped Huerta...

It's all in perspective man... Kawajiri, Hansen, Melendez, Alvarez, and Aoki are top LW's for sure, hate on em if you want... But don't go around comparing a guy like Gray Maynard to Joachim Hansen or Tatsuya Kawajiri... Maybe in 5 years... maybe after he gets a few more fights under his belt... Maybe after he fights some top comp like a Gomi, Alvarez, Aoki, Melendez, even a BJ Penn or one of the other LW's you mentioned besides the unfortunately undersized Frankie Edgar (I know he wants to be in the big show, but he really should be fighting at 145, he'd be a monster)... Just because the guy's haven't been showcased on a reality TV show doesn't make them less of a fighter... Pulver was considered one of the best LW in the UFC not long ago and take a look at how he did against a couple of the big dogs from Japan...

Don't let biased turn you blind to talent... Not everyone wants to fight for the UFC and shouldn't have to...

Lol... Gray Maynard...
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